Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: April 28, 2009 03:09AM
New article on the What Enlightenment? blog and 4 students' testimonies.
[whatenlightenment.blogspot.com]
[whatenlightenment.blogspot.com]
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: April 28, 2009 08:54AM
For the record, Cohen's group (read cult) has been known in the past by such names as Moksha and Impersonal Enlightenment Fellowship. Currently it's known as Evolutionary Enlightenment or EnlightenNext.
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 03, 2009 11:07PM
New Book about Cohen by Former Student Who Is Free From Guru Imposed Silence
(Batchelor is one of the best regarded authors and teachers in the Western Buddhist Dharma world. His willingness to write a forward speaks volumes)
Information about the book, here.
[americanguru.net]
It appears that Mr. Yenner wisely wrote his book first, and only after completing the
MS and arranging for its publication, did he go public when an article by him was posted on July 2009 on the What Enlightenment, website. Its now September and we've been informed the book is available for purchase.
This is the way to do it.
Research and write your book first, arrange its publication.
Only after doing that, let the world know.
Otherwise, if you make the mistake of running a personal blog and announcing your intention of someday writing a memoir about an oppressive guru, you may find your comments section swamped by guru loyalists who know how to press shame buttons installed in you during your time with the guru. They may not only 'astroturf' the comments section but their use of shame triggers may cripple the momentum needed to create and complete your much needed book.
So..do as Mr Yenner did. Dont blog about a book before it has been sent to the publisher.
Write and publish the book and then start a web page.
Which brings the total number of books about Andrew Cohen to three:
The Mother of God by Cohen's mother, Luna Tarlo
Enlightenment Blues, by Andre van der Braak
American Guru by William Yenner.
William Yenner describes his situation here.
[whatenlightenment.blogspot.com]
(The blog has been shifted to a new format. Directly clicking the comments section may or may not work. To get to the comments for each article, look at the list of articles on the right hand side bar. Click the title of the article whose comments section you want to read. That will take you to that article--plus the comments accompanying it.)
(The comments are worth reading--one correspondant noted that Wilber and some aspiring experts on cult issues convened a conference on cult psychology in the 1980s. Professor Philip Zimbardo, of the Stanford Prison experiment, also attended as a participant--yet the editors made no reference to Zimbardo's findings, rather like talking about Hamlet without mentioning the prince. This refusal to heed the insights of the Zimbardo prison experiment or Stanley Milgram's Obedience to Authority experiment is a persistent blind spot amongst die hard guru apologists, who constantly state its the duty of the oppressed to resist or to leave, ignoring that the entire set up is designed to undercut resistance or flight.)
Thats like saying someone who is ripped off in a poker game played using marked cards was at fault for being too stupid to be capable of winning that game despite not knowing the game was played with marked cards.
And even if you went into a game suspecting the game might be played with marked cards, if you dont know in what exact WAY the cards are marked, you are still set up to lose.
In the eyes of guru apologists, it is always our fault that we cannot win the game played with marked cards.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2009 11:23PM by corboy.
by William Yenne,r forward by Stephen Batchelor.Quote
American Guru: A Story of Love Betrayal and Healing: Former Students of Andrew Cohen Speak Out
(Batchelor is one of the best regarded authors and teachers in the Western Buddhist Dharma world. His willingness to write a forward speaks volumes)
Information about the book, here.
[americanguru.net]
It appears that Mr. Yenner wisely wrote his book first, and only after completing the
MS and arranging for its publication, did he go public when an article by him was posted on July 2009 on the What Enlightenment, website. Its now September and we've been informed the book is available for purchase.
This is the way to do it.
Research and write your book first, arrange its publication.
Only after doing that, let the world know.
Otherwise, if you make the mistake of running a personal blog and announcing your intention of someday writing a memoir about an oppressive guru, you may find your comments section swamped by guru loyalists who know how to press shame buttons installed in you during your time with the guru. They may not only 'astroturf' the comments section but their use of shame triggers may cripple the momentum needed to create and complete your much needed book.
So..do as Mr Yenner did. Dont blog about a book before it has been sent to the publisher.
Write and publish the book and then start a web page.
Which brings the total number of books about Andrew Cohen to three:
The Mother of God by Cohen's mother, Luna Tarlo
Enlightenment Blues, by Andre van der Braak
American Guru by William Yenner.
William Yenner describes his situation here.
[whatenlightenment.blogspot.com]
(The blog has been shifted to a new format. Directly clicking the comments section may or may not work. To get to the comments for each article, look at the list of articles on the right hand side bar. Click the title of the article whose comments section you want to read. That will take you to that article--plus the comments accompanying it.)
(The comments are worth reading--one correspondant noted that Wilber and some aspiring experts on cult issues convened a conference on cult psychology in the 1980s. Professor Philip Zimbardo, of the Stanford Prison experiment, also attended as a participant--yet the editors made no reference to Zimbardo's findings, rather like talking about Hamlet without mentioning the prince. This refusal to heed the insights of the Zimbardo prison experiment or Stanley Milgram's Obedience to Authority experiment is a persistent blind spot amongst die hard guru apologists, who constantly state its the duty of the oppressed to resist or to leave, ignoring that the entire set up is designed to undercut resistance or flight.)
Thats like saying someone who is ripped off in a poker game played using marked cards was at fault for being too stupid to be capable of winning that game despite not knowing the game was played with marked cards.
And even if you went into a game suspecting the game might be played with marked cards, if you dont know in what exact WAY the cards are marked, you are still set up to lose.
In the eyes of guru apologists, it is always our fault that we cannot win the game played with marked cards.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2009 11:23PM by corboy.
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 09, 2009 10:49PM
At the end of her memoir describing how Andrew Cohen changed from a formerly considerate and gentle son into a brute and a woman hating bully, Luna Tarlo could only guess that the root cause was the intoxication of attaining absolute power over a group, via the mythical infallibility attributed to enlightenment--and to the guru role.
Devoted disciples who become troubled by a guru's abusive behavior often wonder how their enlightened leader could become capable of cruelty and bizarre behavior. Many times such discussions get sidelined into hair splitting over enlightenment, various kinds of enlightenment, how it can or cannot co-exist with neurosis, or that there is no such thing as abusive behavior once someone has become enlightened, blah, blah, blah.
Lord Acton, echoed by Luna Tarlo stated, very simply, power corrupts.
There is now evidence from social psychology that supports this--something we could call The Stanford Cookie Experiment.
And in Cohen's case and that of other gurus, it doesnt matter how seemingly 'enlightened' someone is, or whether that person is capable of creating a social setting in which participants have extraordinary and even at times beneficial experiences for themselves.
Gaining power puts the powerholder at increased risk of misdoing.
Let us look at the Stanford Cookie Experiment.
I first learned of this experiment from reading a book, written by Robert I Sutton, a professor of management and engineering at Stanford University, entitled The No Asshole Rule:Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn't.
According to Sutton's criteria, many a notorious guru or cult leader fits this profile.
Note how powerful people are flattered and treated well by the asshole, while subordinates are dumped on. This is precisely what happens in many a cult. Except that unlike a secular work environment, those treated well defend the bully as their guru, casting a mantle of divinity upon the assholistic behavior.
According to Sutton, one bad apple can make legions of people miserable. He defines
assholism as:
Test One
"After talking to the alleged asshole, does the "target" feel oppressed, humiliated, de-energized, or be-littled by the person? In particular does the target feel worse about him or
herself?
Test Two
Does the alleged asshole aim his or her venom at people who are less powerful (author italics here) rathan than at those people who are more powerful?
The Dirty Dozen
Common Everyday Actions Assholes Use
* Personal Insults
* Invading ones "personal territory"
* Uninvited physical contact
* Threats and intimidation, both verbal and non verbal
* "Sarcastic Jokes" and "teasing" used as insult delivery.
* Withering e-mail flames
* Status slaps intended to humiliate their victims
* Public shaming or "status degradation" rituals
* Rude interruptions
* Two-faced attacks
* Dirty looks
* Treating people as if they are invisible.
Sutton tells us this has to be a persistent pattern. We all can have bad days, now and then.
'It is far harder to qualify as a certified asshole', Sutton tells us. 'a person needs to display a persistent pattern, to have history of episodes that end with one target after another feeling be-littled, put down, humiliated, disrespected, oppressed, de-energized, and generally worse about themselves.'
(Sutton, pages 9-12)
Trolls fit this catagory, as do many of the gurus these trolls defend.
Now, let us look at Professor Deborah Gruenfeld's experiment--what I term the Stanford Cookie Experiment. I believe that scholars of cults and dysfunctional organizatins need to place this experiment alongside Stanley Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment and Philip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment.
This experiement demonstrates how a leadership role, randomly assigned, has a tendency to trigger swinish bad manners in otherwise normal persons.
The way the experiment worked (and it was replicated a number of times)
subjects were assembled into a group to do a shared task.
*At random, one subject in each group was assigned the role of overseeing and evaluating the others' work--randomly assigned to a leadership role.
During the experiment, a plate of cookies/biscuits was brought in.
Time and again, those subjects randomly assigned to the leadership role, tended
to do the following:
Took more cookies (greed)
Chewed with mouths open (lapses of ordinary good manners)
Got crumbs on their faces and left crumbs on the table (messes for others to clean up)
Thus, random assignment to a brief, time limited leadership role had a potent effect--increasing the probability that the promoted subject's manners would deteriorate.
Now...these were persons who had not sought the leadership role. By contrast, the persons who interest us are those who are driven to desire power, desire fame, spend years seeking ways to market themselves, hone their persuasive skills, and once they become leaders of personality centered groups, are waited on, insulated from consequences, and have enablers making excuses for them.
Imagine the Cookie Experiment going on for ten years or more.
The experiment was done by Professor Deborah Gruenfeld of Stanford University--her
speciality has been researching the effects of putting people in positions of power where they lord it over others.
Read more about the Cookie Experiment here:
[www.google.com]
Devoted disciples who become troubled by a guru's abusive behavior often wonder how their enlightened leader could become capable of cruelty and bizarre behavior. Many times such discussions get sidelined into hair splitting over enlightenment, various kinds of enlightenment, how it can or cannot co-exist with neurosis, or that there is no such thing as abusive behavior once someone has become enlightened, blah, blah, blah.
Lord Acton, echoed by Luna Tarlo stated, very simply, power corrupts.
There is now evidence from social psychology that supports this--something we could call The Stanford Cookie Experiment.
And in Cohen's case and that of other gurus, it doesnt matter how seemingly 'enlightened' someone is, or whether that person is capable of creating a social setting in which participants have extraordinary and even at times beneficial experiences for themselves.
Gaining power puts the powerholder at increased risk of misdoing.
Let us look at the Stanford Cookie Experiment.
I first learned of this experiment from reading a book, written by Robert I Sutton, a professor of management and engineering at Stanford University, entitled The No Asshole Rule:Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn't.
According to Sutton's criteria, many a notorious guru or cult leader fits this profile.
Note how powerful people are flattered and treated well by the asshole, while subordinates are dumped on. This is precisely what happens in many a cult. Except that unlike a secular work environment, those treated well defend the bully as their guru, casting a mantle of divinity upon the assholistic behavior.
According to Sutton, one bad apple can make legions of people miserable. He defines
assholism as:
Test One
"After talking to the alleged asshole, does the "target" feel oppressed, humiliated, de-energized, or be-littled by the person? In particular does the target feel worse about him or
herself?
Test Two
Does the alleged asshole aim his or her venom at people who are less powerful (author italics here) rathan than at those people who are more powerful?
The Dirty Dozen
Common Everyday Actions Assholes Use
* Personal Insults
* Invading ones "personal territory"
* Uninvited physical contact
* Threats and intimidation, both verbal and non verbal
* "Sarcastic Jokes" and "teasing" used as insult delivery.
* Withering e-mail flames
* Status slaps intended to humiliate their victims
* Public shaming or "status degradation" rituals
* Rude interruptions
* Two-faced attacks
* Dirty looks
* Treating people as if they are invisible.
Sutton tells us this has to be a persistent pattern. We all can have bad days, now and then.
'It is far harder to qualify as a certified asshole', Sutton tells us. 'a person needs to display a persistent pattern, to have history of episodes that end with one target after another feeling be-littled, put down, humiliated, disrespected, oppressed, de-energized, and generally worse about themselves.'
(Sutton, pages 9-12)
Trolls fit this catagory, as do many of the gurus these trolls defend.
Now, let us look at Professor Deborah Gruenfeld's experiment--what I term the Stanford Cookie Experiment. I believe that scholars of cults and dysfunctional organizatins need to place this experiment alongside Stanley Milgram's Obedience to Authority Experiment and Philip Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment.
This experiement demonstrates how a leadership role, randomly assigned, has a tendency to trigger swinish bad manners in otherwise normal persons.
The way the experiment worked (and it was replicated a number of times)
subjects were assembled into a group to do a shared task.
*At random, one subject in each group was assigned the role of overseeing and evaluating the others' work--randomly assigned to a leadership role.
During the experiment, a plate of cookies/biscuits was brought in.
Time and again, those subjects randomly assigned to the leadership role, tended
to do the following:
Took more cookies (greed)
Chewed with mouths open (lapses of ordinary good manners)
Got crumbs on their faces and left crumbs on the table (messes for others to clean up)
Thus, random assignment to a brief, time limited leadership role had a potent effect--increasing the probability that the promoted subject's manners would deteriorate.
Now...these were persons who had not sought the leadership role. By contrast, the persons who interest us are those who are driven to desire power, desire fame, spend years seeking ways to market themselves, hone their persuasive skills, and once they become leaders of personality centered groups, are waited on, insulated from consequences, and have enablers making excuses for them.
Imagine the Cookie Experiment going on for ten years or more.
The experiment was done by Professor Deborah Gruenfeld of Stanford University--her
speciality has been researching the effects of putting people in positions of power where they lord it over others.
Read more about the Cookie Experiment here:
[www.google.com]
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 15, 2009 12:39AM
A report by William Yenner
[whatenlightenment.blogspot.com]
Decades ago, Agehananda Bharati, a Viennese born Sanskrit scholar described an episode he witnessed during the Nazi take over of Vienna. He saw a shrine in the main square of Vienna set up on Hitlers birthday. The shrine had a huge portrait of Hitler with a multitude of candles in front of it. Such shrines were previously set up to honor the Blessed Mother, or display the Blessed Sacrament. For centuries such outdoor shrines honoring Catholic saints and mysteries had been a sherished part of Viennese public life.
Bharati witnessed an old lady turn away from the Hitler shrine to go home, and without thinking, she crossed herself---then a look of utter shock went over her face. Her lifetime of religious practice had become fused with the image of the Nazi Fuhrer. Referring to this incident, Bharati says,
'I am using the term 'charisma' here in a special sense to denote that numinous personality change deliberately infused into the victim'.
This was written about 30 years ago by Leonard Fischer/Agehananda Bharti in his Memoir, The Ochre Robe. He lived through the Nazi occupation of Europe and was horrified by the effects on people.
Later, in India, Bharati was perturbed by how many people he met who considered Hitler an avatar, reasoning that because he had attained so much power, Hitler must have had superb karma. Power equalled legitimacy. Those with this opinion had no ablity to make any distinction between legitmate/benevolent power and power stolen using lies and used for evil purposes.
Power equaled legitimacy. It is a very primitive state of mind, yet can co-exist with a high IQ and considerable social charm--in which case run for your life.
There is an article by psycholanalyst Stanley Rosenman that may be of use to those seeking to recover from the kind of process Yenner describes.
Rosenman, S. (2003). Assaultive Projective Identification and the Plundering of the Victim's Identity... Journal of the American Academy of Psychoanalysis., 31:521-540.
[74.125.93.132]
[whatenlightenment.blogspot.com]
Quote
It seems that even after a period of years outside of Cohen's physical orbit, his influence remains a powerful factor in (former disciples) assessment of their own motivations and general unworthiness as spiritual practitioners, and though my sympathy is neither solicited nor appreciated, I can't help but extend it.
This is, after all, a tragic situation for all concerned, including Andrew Cohen himself, and Cohen's hovering presence in the thought processes and the very language of his still-devoted ex-students is impossible to ignore....
Clearly, what these responses reflect is something other than enlightened understanding, and it is precisely this "something other than" that (Yenners book) American Guru, however clumsily or offensively, is an attempt to uncover.
I ask: How is it that these people as a group have thoroughly internalized Cohen's vocabulary and conceptual framework without any apparent benefit to their own independence or self-esteem?
Of what productive use is it to a human being to introject a paradigm according to which he or she has "failed," while the one who invented it can only claim "victory" by appealing to a "higher context" that justifies anything he does? " ...
And now, more heartbreaking than even the facts themselves, comes this unselfconscious demonstration of what it really means to be a student of Andrew Cohen, and to have imbibed his version of "consciousness and culture":
'Submit to his control long enough and you may never again be able to believe in your own goodness, integrity or intrinsic self-worth; even after leaving, the best you can hope for is to join the ranks of the "failures," and you may never truly recover your footing again.
Decades ago, Agehananda Bharati, a Viennese born Sanskrit scholar described an episode he witnessed during the Nazi take over of Vienna. He saw a shrine in the main square of Vienna set up on Hitlers birthday. The shrine had a huge portrait of Hitler with a multitude of candles in front of it. Such shrines were previously set up to honor the Blessed Mother, or display the Blessed Sacrament. For centuries such outdoor shrines honoring Catholic saints and mysteries had been a sherished part of Viennese public life.
Bharati witnessed an old lady turn away from the Hitler shrine to go home, and without thinking, she crossed herself---then a look of utter shock went over her face. Her lifetime of religious practice had become fused with the image of the Nazi Fuhrer. Referring to this incident, Bharati says,
'I am using the term 'charisma' here in a special sense to denote that numinous personality change deliberately infused into the victim'.
This was written about 30 years ago by Leonard Fischer/Agehananda Bharti in his Memoir, The Ochre Robe. He lived through the Nazi occupation of Europe and was horrified by the effects on people.
Later, in India, Bharati was perturbed by how many people he met who considered Hitler an avatar, reasoning that because he had attained so much power, Hitler must have had superb karma. Power equalled legitimacy. Those with this opinion had no ablity to make any distinction between legitmate/benevolent power and power stolen using lies and used for evil purposes.
Power equaled legitimacy. It is a very primitive state of mind, yet can co-exist with a high IQ and considerable social charm--in which case run for your life.
There is an article by psycholanalyst Stanley Rosenman that may be of use to those seeking to recover from the kind of process Yenner describes.
Rosenman, S. (2003). Assaultive Projective Identification and the Plundering of the Victim's Identity... Journal of the American Academy of Psychoanalysis., 31:521-540.
Quote
Stanley Rosenman has written about how identity and even emotions are interfered with when someone else inserts thier own introject into targeted persons--victims.
Rosenman examined this only in the context of traumatic assault, such as rape or prolonged torture.
He didnt consider that this could be done by seduction, persuasion, by presenting oneself as a guru and securing peoples attention by promsing priviliged access to the ancient heritage of India.
But we are free to ponder this. Rosenman has suggested that a self impaired perpetrator may seek immortality by injected shards of his or her introject into others.
This article is worth reading. Therapists can get it through subscription to PEP. Others may have to look for it at a psychoanlytic institute library.
But I think Rosenman manages to describe the same process alluded to by Bharati:
'I am using the term 'charisma' here in a special sense to denote that numinous personality change deliberately infused into the victim'.
I took some rough notes on Rosenman's article.
Rosenman, S. (2003). Assaultive Projective Identification and the Plundering of the Victim's Identity... Journal of the American Academy of Psychoanalysis., 31:521-540.
(abstract of article)
Quote:
A destructive mode of projective identification is delineated: a predator's catastrophic attack calculated to cause the victim a stress disorder marked by a disarrayed identity. This discomposure enables the perpetrator to aggrandize a manifold inroad upon the victim's identity to imprint, intrude, mingle and/or lodge his representation into it; to ravage, steal from, impoverish, and/or corrupt it; finally to have his representation emerge as an internal regulator of the traumatized prey's functioning. The victim's debased integrity is manifest in the symptoms of his ensuing posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD)."
[www.pep-web.org]
Quote:
"The article was grim reading, but very, very informative.
Rosenman made use of testimony from people who had survived parenting from adults traumatized by war and persecution, and from persons who had survived prison atrocity, torture and other forms of prolonged, grievous assault. (This is not good stuff to read within an hour or two of bedtime--learned that the hard way.) (My note - any trauma the parent suffered would count).
The stuff that jumped out at me is that many times perpetrators present a very pathetic wounded child aspect of themselves while simultaneously intruding on and damaging vulnerable targets. ((Though Rosenman does not say so, this wounded pathetic child aspect of the perp is probably flip side of the vibrant charming child aspect of the perp when he or she is being sunny and seductive.))
The pathos literally disarms us--both before we are assaulted--and it disarms us after we are assaulted, by shaming us into distrusting our anger and revulsion at being trust busted.
This matches with how many abusive gurus (like my doctor, warped's doctor\bf, all our abusers) go into pathetic grand opera mode when feeling misunderstood--the pathos. It brings their defenders out of the woodwork (their relatives, friends, followers). Even those grievously victimized by Cohen still feel afraid to be disloyal and this has greatly muzzled the survivor's community and prevented it from becoming an effective agent for reform. Despite knowing how cruel and dangerous Cohen (one particular "guru" we've been following in CA) had been to them and that he was continuing to do this, most of the survivors pull their punches and feel afraid to be disloyal or hurtful-even a woman who was pressured and tormented to surrender over 2 million dollars still felt this hesitation. IT all fits with what Roseman describes--the seductive pathos of the tormentor.
In using pathos,the perp sets it up so the victim gets shamed and conned into feeling parental and loyal to the wounded child in the perp--and in feeling protective of the wounded child in the perp, the victim is simultaneously conned into disowning his or her own violated innocence. In this scam, its the powerholder/perp who gets the compassion and the victim ends up shafted with disorientation, shame and self loathing.
Two, Rosenman notes that perps feel soiled by what they've been through and some get a temporary sense of renewal and invigoration by disrupting the innocent happiness of their target and witnessing the person succumb to the shock that the perp went through. Rosenman noted that survivors of atrocity may resent and envy their children at having a chance at happiness and may force the children to become privy to the parent's grim outlook on life--a kind of misery loves company dynamic. (my note - they HATE our happiness. My doctor, and the LGAT he tried to suck me into, try to persuade clients that they don't know just how miserable their lives are. Many alternative practitioners use this underlying unhappiness as the "hidden cause" for illness).
So the identity and emotional life of the perp get transferred into the targeted victim and takes over the victims inner life. IF you're a child, you dont feel free to explore life on your own terms. You feel your own energy and happiness are taking something away from your parents. Roseman noted that some perps get a sense of immortality, or at least a sense of mastery (the vampire) by taking over the inner lives of their victims and (to quote the abstract) 'have (the perp's) representation emerge as an internal regulator of the traumatized prey's functioning. '
Now...doesnt this sound exactly like an LGAT's agenda--'emerge as an internal regulator of the traumatized prey's functioning.' The set up is a socially engineered assault/disorientation that punctures boundaries and fosters injection of the LGATs' "representation" so that it then takes over and runs the targets inner life for them--and sets up a conflict between true self and the foreign and predatory material injected by the LGAT. (my note - we both have had experience with either gurus or LGATs, but this injection applies to abusers in general - they become part of your internal workings).
But Rosenman's article describes another part of the process--the way perpetrators use thier pathos, their woundedness, to feel entitled to leech from others---and use their pathos to charm their victims into parenting them--and shame thier victims to ignore their own valid revulsion at being leeched from. When someone is pathetic, its hard to face that they are dangerous and using pathos as a cloaking device.
The tip off when perpetrators abuse others this is that:
*Only the perpetrator's childhood pathos and suffering gets respect.
*The perpetrators adult agency in continuing the legacy of abuse--is ignored, trivialied--or given a spiritual rationalization.
*The perpetrators adult agency is foisted onto the victim.
***And the shattered powerless victim (often groomed and pre-selected by the perp because he or she is vulnerable, is conned into parenting and nurturing the wounded child in the perp while the adult voice of the perp cons the victim into feeling responsible for the perps actions. The victim feels powerlesss and craves a sense of agency, so may accept the perpetrators definition of agency---"You made it happen. You made your own abuse." Its only abuse because you CALL it abuse.
And a false sense of agency in feeling parental toward the perpetrator...to the poin
***The victim is conned a sense of false empowerment by parenting the perpetrator.
The predation being done in in the present moment is denied. The experience of the victim suffering in the present moment is given no respect whatsoever."
Stamp out rape. Say yes.
As I wrote elsewhere:
Quote:
In New Age and Dharma Lite circles, there is a phobia against honest, frank speech.
And it may be that people who allow themselves to be emotionally spayed or neutered may at an unconscious level get off on following a leader or guru with anger management problems, because the leader gets to indulge the anger and other behavior forbidden to the followers.
One also sees this where a guru or leader milks his or her sufferings for pathos, and monopolizes compassion, while the followers are forbidden to see their own pain as equally valid.
The followers care for the guru while failing to give a damn about their own well being and fail to give a damn for the well being of each other.
All compassion is monopolized by the leader, while denied to the followers.
The leader becomes an insatiable black hole, absorbing all the emotional energy and vitality of the group. The leader is allowed to be angry. The leader is allowed to be cared for. The leader's sufferings (even when its just something that can be remedied by surgery) is exaggerated as drastic.
The followers are forbidden anger, forbidden care when suffering, told to 'turn it around' when they feel perturbed, forbidden to defend themselves or see thier own perspective as valid.
Only the leader's perspective is valid. Only the leader's experiences and emotions are real.
But from Janaki's account, the leader never has to turn it around.
A guru who is greedy and nasty can become a emtional surrogate of sorts, carrying and acting out impulses and emotions forbidden to the followers.
In Janaki's case, she mentions being in some Indian gurus ashram at age 14, then she follows Muktananda, then gets involved with BK.
That is a very very long time to be in guru-land. That very likely meant she was socialized to disown emotional boundaries early on and then rationalize this disowning of valid anger and emotional boundaries under the guise of spiritual rationalization.
The poison of an LGAT or toxic guru is that you think you are fully autonomous when in fact the toxic introject of the forum leader has been downloaded into a subconscious part of yourself and is working you as a puppet so as to defend the LGAT, disrupt dissent by trolling, or by earning money and running PR.
Stanely Rosenman--has spent a lot of time counseling and writing about the issues faced by survivors of the Nazi holocaust but also the impact the parental trauma has had upon children and even grandchildren of those who survived.
Dr Rosenman has not 'lost the moon'
[74.125.93.132]
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 20, 2009 12:02AM
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
billyen
()
Date: November 20, 2009 11:21PM
Corboy,
You are so right about "Otherwise, if you make the mistake of running a personal blog and announcing your intention of someday writing a memoir about an oppressive guru, you may find your comments section swamped by guru loyalists who know how to press shame buttons installed in you during your time with the guru. They may not only 'astroturf' the comments section but their use of shame triggers may cripple the momentum needed to create and complete your much needed book."
Well, I finished my book American Guru before the Andrew Cohen defenders got wind of it, but subsequently they have unleashed their "shame buttons" attack with a site devoted to astro-turfing and to shaming any critics, guru-talk.com, and also by ad hominem attacks posted as "reviews" on Amazon.
I have written and posted a commentary on the sad phenomenon of former students who cannot leave the teacher in spite of years of evidence of serious and dangerous abuses. It is posted on Integral World.
Peace,
William Yenner
You are so right about "Otherwise, if you make the mistake of running a personal blog and announcing your intention of someday writing a memoir about an oppressive guru, you may find your comments section swamped by guru loyalists who know how to press shame buttons installed in you during your time with the guru. They may not only 'astroturf' the comments section but their use of shame triggers may cripple the momentum needed to create and complete your much needed book."
Well, I finished my book American Guru before the Andrew Cohen defenders got wind of it, but subsequently they have unleashed their "shame buttons" attack with a site devoted to astro-turfing and to shaming any critics, guru-talk.com, and also by ad hominem attacks posted as "reviews" on Amazon.
I have written and posted a commentary on the sad phenomenon of former students who cannot leave the teacher in spite of years of evidence of serious and dangerous abuses. It is posted on Integral World.
Peace,
William Yenner
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 21, 2009 08:54AM
The article by psychoanalyst Stanley Rosenman may give insight into this dreadful situation.
Rosenman actually addressed the situation in which a violently assaulted and shocked person is impregnated with shards from the assailant's own self.
Rosenman examined drastic situations such as torture, rape, imprisonment. Because all human beings begin life as powerless infants and require a very long period of dependency upon adult careproviders all of us, even the strongest, exit childhood with some remaining pressure points which, if hit hard, can compromise our boundaries and reactivate a childs latent need for security and orientation from an all powerful parent figure.
Rosenman did not address how an assailant may be empowered by a social setting that worships use and abuse of brutality and rationalizes utter cruelty as necessary for spiritual development.
Alice Miller did address this in her book, For Your Own Good: Roots of Violence in Childrearing.
It will do much good if the New Age scene ceased to support and lend retreat space and advertising space to teachers who acquire documented records of emotional, financial and physical abuse.
Also some gurus find ways to obtain embarassing informaton about followers such as film footage or get follower to do things that leave them shame ridden.
If that film footage or letters stay in the ashram files, it can exert paralysis upon those who physically leave. To make amends, Cohen needs to surrender this material and ensure no one else, such as his heirs gets access to it.l
Rosenman actually addressed the situation in which a violently assaulted and shocked person is impregnated with shards from the assailant's own self.
Rosenman examined drastic situations such as torture, rape, imprisonment. Because all human beings begin life as powerless infants and require a very long period of dependency upon adult careproviders all of us, even the strongest, exit childhood with some remaining pressure points which, if hit hard, can compromise our boundaries and reactivate a childs latent need for security and orientation from an all powerful parent figure.
Rosenman did not address how an assailant may be empowered by a social setting that worships use and abuse of brutality and rationalizes utter cruelty as necessary for spiritual development.
Alice Miller did address this in her book, For Your Own Good: Roots of Violence in Childrearing.
It will do much good if the New Age scene ceased to support and lend retreat space and advertising space to teachers who acquire documented records of emotional, financial and physical abuse.
Also some gurus find ways to obtain embarassing informaton about followers such as film footage or get follower to do things that leave them shame ridden.
If that film footage or letters stay in the ashram files, it can exert paralysis upon those who physically leave. To make amends, Cohen needs to surrender this material and ensure no one else, such as his heirs gets access to it.l
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 21, 2009 08:55AM
We saw this happen on other threads, Bill.
And it appears what Cohen & his devotees have mastered is not enlightenment but mere PR and pushing shame buttons. That 'skill'nothing to be proud of.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2009 08:56AM by corboy.
And it appears what Cohen & his devotees have mastered is not enlightenment but mere PR and pushing shame buttons. That 'skill'nothing to be proud of.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2009 08:56AM by corboy.
Re: International Enlightenment Fellowship/Andrew Cohen
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: November 24, 2009 11:30PM
More Advice--Beware of Sabotage Attempts if You Give Public Readings
If you have written a book about getting free from a guru, bear in mind that the Guru Apologists Brigade will begrudge you your First Amendment rights as an American.
Their mindset, sincere in its way, probably, probably functions this way. (I am only guessing--Corboy)
The Guru Apologists Possible(?) Mindset
Their guru enjoys First Amendment Rights. You, the dissenter, do not.
You are not human, you are a failure, a traitor, a worm.
You are not human so the First Amendment does not apply to you.
(If they use Ken Wilber's creepy elitist Integral scheme you, the dissenter are some inferior color on the classification scheme. As an inferior life form you have no right to exercise your rights as a citizen. The US constitution does not apply to vermin like us.)
After all, they are the elite, and are going to drag the world into the next level of Evolution. You are a hindrance to this glorious process and so is your book.
(this is all my personal opinion on how the mindset works. Corboy)
So...if you want to exercise your First Amendment rights, by arranging to give a reading of your book, alert the bookstore (or other venue--cafe, restaurant, auditorium)and tell them of the controversy likely to ensue and that there may be attempts at sabotage.
When your reading is scheduled, tell the manager and all employees they need to check with you in case someone phones, pretending to be you, and tries to get them to cancel the reading. Bookstores often have many part time employees, so it is vital that they all be notified of this.
Someone tried to sabotage a reading given by Marta Szabo, attended by author Alphie McCourt. Marta wrote about her own guru, Gurumayi, successor of the odious Muktananda. She describes the attempted sabotage here:
[the-guru-looked-good.blogspot.com]
Marta wrote:
and in the comments section a person wrote (small exerpt from a longer post):
Now that the five year gag order imposed on him by Cohen has passed and now that Mr Yenner reveals that he used that silence 1) to write his book American Guru: A Story of Love and Betrayal, and then send the book off to the press without the guru knowing about it, Cohens minions are now busily writting nasty reviews on Amazon com and other discussion venues.
Apparently you are free to sing a gurus praises, but never, but never have a right to write anything other than praise for the guru.
So, to repeat again, here is Corboy's advice to anyone who gets out from under an ungrateful, bad mannered guru and decides to write a book:
1) Do not say anything online about your intention of writing a book or article. Dont make the mistake of announcing on your blog, 'Oh at some point I am going to write a book or an article about so and so.'
It takes confidence to write, and privacy is needed to support the creative process. This is easily disrupted if word leaks out concerning your writing project and you will be subjected to a chorus of guru apologetics, and new agy sugary whine, 'Dont be so neeegativvveee.'
These days, the most counter cultural thing any writer can do is keep quiet, assemble one's research materials, fact check with a handful of trusted friends, who can also keep quiet and write.
2) Look for publishers. Brief them about the guru, his or her history of controversy and past responses by the guru and minions to earlier critiques. The publisher needs to know what they're going to be in for if they decide to publish your book. As part of your contract with them, insist on privacy safeguards. You dont want an employee tattling behind your back to your former guru.
3) Still keeping quiet, send the book to press. Say nothing in public until the copies are ready to be shipped and you recieve your author copies.
(Note--authors receive very, very few complimentary copies of their own books. One way to be kind to an author is never try to bum free copies of the book from them. They dont have any extra to give away. If you want to support an author--BUY THE BOOK)
5)Once the book is out there, be prepared to have your shame buttons mauled and punched, by those persons so desperately invested in Guru Power Mystique that that is all they have left. Make sure you have friends and support. Reactions can be suprisingly ferocious.
In some persons eyes, power is holiness, no matter how abusively that power is exercised. It is a primitive state of mind in capable of making any distinction between abusive power and benevolent power. Power is just power and cannot be questioned, only worshipped.
Agehananda Bharati, a Vienna born Sanskrit scholar and Shankara monk, was greatly upset to find many Hindus, including very learned monastics, who were convinced Hitler was an avatar. The reasoning was that anyone who had that kind of power surely had a multitude of auspicious former lives otherwise hed not have such power in the first place. In that mindset, power equaled legitimacy. Didnt matter how cruelly that power was exercised. This mindset is now distressingly common, thanks to
the popularization of asian spirituality and its eager appropriation by the worlds bullies.
This mindset is now suprisingly common in the new age/guru scene. People cannot be argued out of this mindset, just the way mere reason is not enough to transform a tantrum-throwing, toy-grabbing two-year old into Justice Benjamin Cardozo.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2009 11:44PM by corboy.
If you have written a book about getting free from a guru, bear in mind that the Guru Apologists Brigade will begrudge you your First Amendment rights as an American.
Their mindset, sincere in its way, probably, probably functions this way. (I am only guessing--Corboy)
The Guru Apologists Possible(?) Mindset
Their guru enjoys First Amendment Rights. You, the dissenter, do not.
You are not human, you are a failure, a traitor, a worm.
You are not human so the First Amendment does not apply to you.
(If they use Ken Wilber's creepy elitist Integral scheme you, the dissenter are some inferior color on the classification scheme. As an inferior life form you have no right to exercise your rights as a citizen. The US constitution does not apply to vermin like us.)
After all, they are the elite, and are going to drag the world into the next level of Evolution. You are a hindrance to this glorious process and so is your book.
(this is all my personal opinion on how the mindset works. Corboy)
So...if you want to exercise your First Amendment rights, by arranging to give a reading of your book, alert the bookstore (or other venue--cafe, restaurant, auditorium)and tell them of the controversy likely to ensue and that there may be attempts at sabotage.
When your reading is scheduled, tell the manager and all employees they need to check with you in case someone phones, pretending to be you, and tries to get them to cancel the reading. Bookstores often have many part time employees, so it is vital that they all be notified of this.
Someone tried to sabotage a reading given by Marta Szabo, attended by author Alphie McCourt. Marta wrote about her own guru, Gurumayi, successor of the odious Muktananda. She describes the attempted sabotage here:
[the-guru-looked-good.blogspot.com]
Marta wrote:
Quote
A Siddha Yoga Tea-Bagger tried to sabotage our gathering last week by calling the restaurant and telling them the event was canceled. Well, we got wind of the plot and set things straight, and the evening was a resounding success. Sorry, tea-baggers, right-wing fundamentalists whose beliefs are threatened just because I have written a story that is absolutely accurate to my experience.
and in the comments section a person wrote (small exerpt from a longer post):
Quote
..When you posted your plans to hold the event at the restaurant, I actually wondered at the time, "OK, what are the SY people going to do to try and sabotage Marta's plans THIS time?" And obviously, what I expected happened. I'm glad you were able to catch their shenanigans in time, and hold the event.
October 26, 2009 10:06 AM
Now that the five year gag order imposed on him by Cohen has passed and now that Mr Yenner reveals that he used that silence 1) to write his book American Guru: A Story of Love and Betrayal, and then send the book off to the press without the guru knowing about it, Cohens minions are now busily writting nasty reviews on Amazon com and other discussion venues.
Apparently you are free to sing a gurus praises, but never, but never have a right to write anything other than praise for the guru.
So, to repeat again, here is Corboy's advice to anyone who gets out from under an ungrateful, bad mannered guru and decides to write a book:
1) Do not say anything online about your intention of writing a book or article. Dont make the mistake of announcing on your blog, 'Oh at some point I am going to write a book or an article about so and so.'
It takes confidence to write, and privacy is needed to support the creative process. This is easily disrupted if word leaks out concerning your writing project and you will be subjected to a chorus of guru apologetics, and new agy sugary whine, 'Dont be so neeegativvveee.'
These days, the most counter cultural thing any writer can do is keep quiet, assemble one's research materials, fact check with a handful of trusted friends, who can also keep quiet and write.
2) Look for publishers. Brief them about the guru, his or her history of controversy and past responses by the guru and minions to earlier critiques. The publisher needs to know what they're going to be in for if they decide to publish your book. As part of your contract with them, insist on privacy safeguards. You dont want an employee tattling behind your back to your former guru.
3) Still keeping quiet, send the book to press. Say nothing in public until the copies are ready to be shipped and you recieve your author copies.
(Note--authors receive very, very few complimentary copies of their own books. One way to be kind to an author is never try to bum free copies of the book from them. They dont have any extra to give away. If you want to support an author--BUY THE BOOK)
5)Once the book is out there, be prepared to have your shame buttons mauled and punched, by those persons so desperately invested in Guru Power Mystique that that is all they have left. Make sure you have friends and support. Reactions can be suprisingly ferocious.
In some persons eyes, power is holiness, no matter how abusively that power is exercised. It is a primitive state of mind in capable of making any distinction between abusive power and benevolent power. Power is just power and cannot be questioned, only worshipped.
Agehananda Bharati, a Vienna born Sanskrit scholar and Shankara monk, was greatly upset to find many Hindus, including very learned monastics, who were convinced Hitler was an avatar. The reasoning was that anyone who had that kind of power surely had a multitude of auspicious former lives otherwise hed not have such power in the first place. In that mindset, power equaled legitimacy. Didnt matter how cruelly that power was exercised. This mindset is now distressingly common, thanks to
the popularization of asian spirituality and its eager appropriation by the worlds bullies.
This mindset is now suprisingly common in the new age/guru scene. People cannot be argued out of this mindset, just the way mere reason is not enough to transform a tantrum-throwing, toy-grabbing two-year old into Justice Benjamin Cardozo.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2009 11:44PM by corboy.
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