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Re: Question about Eyes and Hypnosis
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 29, 2008 03:10AM

Part Four--all four parts quoted from the old AOL ex SY discussion--therefore what was discussed covers the history of this organization (linked in other discussions to the book 'Eat Pray and Love')--up to C.E 1995/96. C)

: SYDA & Mind Control Tech. IV
Date: 95-08-22 17:50:39 EDT

SYDA & Mind Control Technology IV
The Fourth part of a Five Part Note.
Let's Face facts! We're dealing with Carnie shills, and Carnie shills use
techology, slight-of-hand, psychological manupulation, and last
but not least ...


Their heavy reliance on high-technology is apparent throughout
the organization, The fact that they're bugging, and submitting
everyone in the Ashram to electronic surveilliance & scrutiny, is
almost evidentiary that they already have the means and the will
to keep everyone under electronic control!

The Muktananda - Erhardt EST connection is a really interesting &
possibly critical clue. Erhardt used the same Bio-Feedback Brain
Wave Response/Stimulation Technology that the Church of
Scientology people use and it's no secret that Church of
Scientology defintely uses Brain Wave/Bio-Rythmn Technology to
manipulate and control their members. Once you know how to build
and use equipment that reads brain wave can also
build the equipment that can transmit signals to stimulate,
control, and affect different wave patterns.

This stuff was news in the 60's & even considered "classified"
for use solely by "Cold War" CIA OPeratives for interogating,
"breaking", and then "turning", foreign agents.

By the mid-to-late seventies however you could by bio-feedback
equipment from Edmund Scientific. With some minor hacking &
tweaking and some experimentation, I am certain this equipment
could be put to more potent uses.

I remember meeting a Cult-Pyschologist around 1974 who had a
whole a array of Bio-feedback equipment that he claimed he used
in diagnosing and "re-programming" his patients.... using a
combination of his equipment and post hypnotic techniques.
Luckily my bull-shit detector started flashing red lights and
ringing alarm bells.

I never heard from him again, except reading about his being
cited for having sex with his women patients while they were
under the effect of the equipment and hypnosis. Plus ca
change...Nothing ever changes! So it's pretty possible that this
equipment was available, and well known to be effective as a mind
control technique by the New-Age Pop-Psychology, Pop-Spirituality
crowd from the early 70's on.

If Muktananda "borrowed", or "bought", or "franchised" the
concept of the EST "3 day intensive", and re-packaged it as
"Kundalini Yoga", its pretty likely he bought the hardware and
EST technology as well.

The best magician's tricks are usually the simplest, almost
obvious, and even taken for granted. So whatever they're doing
it's done in the presense of everyone and it's something that
occurs at all the SYDA rituals, and almost taken for granted.

All the various books on mind control and cults all warn of the
use of Video and Audio Tapes purportedly for use as background
music, & as the means of delivering "canned" messages from the
Guru. These are also the "classic" means by which "white noise" &
subliminal hypnotic suggestions can be transmitted!

Now for the second part of the hypothesis:

A discussion of us the "marks" in this Mystical Three Card Monte

Every cop from Brooklyn to Bombay will tell you that the "Mark"
in every scam is the main Accomplice. Without "hooking" a "Mark"
with his/her own greeds, avarice, lusts, prides, angers,
jealousies, a scam can never work!

Every scam is based on presenting the "Mark" with one variation
or another of the irrestible proposition of:





SAINTHOOD without sacrifice!

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Re: Question about Eyes and Hypnosis
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 29, 2008 03:16AM

Part Five (Same source as above)

SYDA & Mind Control Technology V
The Fifth part of a Five Part Note.
I am not what you could call a profound, deep, or even long-time
scholar of Hindu Mysticism, but all the texts that I've read,
WARN IN BIG CAPITAL LETTERS that in order to progress and
develope spiritually to the point of awakening Shaktipat,
Kundalini, Opening up SHAKRAS, etc. requires TOTAL commitment, to
a totally renunciate life, and 12-25 YEARS AT LEAST of seclusion,
& physical, emotional, moral, and spiritual, preparation, under
the watchful eye of an accomplished master who has followed,
completed, the path beforehand.

Most students fall by the wayside, for one reason or another, as
the watchful Master or Guru evaluates, each of his/her students
most carefully, only allowing those students to pass on to the
next "level" that are physically, emotionally, psychologially,
morally, and spiritually worthy and ready.

According to Hindu tradition most "householders" i.e. normal
mortals like you and I are extremely lucky indeed, if they can
even progress through the "liberation" or "opening" of only one
or two "Shakras" in a lifetime.

Guru's are cautious ensure that a student only moves forward when
and if he/she is ready and able. Awakening Kundalini or Shaktipat
in a student who isn't physically, emotionally, psychologially,
morally, and spiritually worthy and completely prepared results
in MADNESS AND/OR DEATH! Very often both!

Most students are simply sent home with the suggestion that a
Spiritual life is not for them, and that maybe they should try
and get a job in an Indian Curry Restaurant in Bombay!


ANY Western student with enough money to spend from a culture and
society so completely Alien to the Hindu mystical and spiritual
tradition as ours can achieve in one or more weekends in the
Catskills, MORE spiritual growth & attainment that FEW Hindus
actually attain after a lifetime of devotion, seclusion,
renunciation, deprivation, celibacy, service, & commitment etc.
truely accomplished & WORTHY MASTERS.



Once the "Mark" is hooked on the basic presumption of the Scam,
all that's needed now is a little extra technology from our
friends at EST or Church of Scientology and the illusion is

Admittedly, I'm extrapolating wildly, & this is all total
speculation, hunch, and my very, very, limited, and totally un-
imformed personal experience of what happened to me at SYDA. This
would still seem much more in keeping with the coldly cynical,
criminal personality profile of the GURU GANG and the actual

If and when criminal charges start to land on the GURU GANG, I
really think it would be a good idea for the FBI or whoever ought
to closely examine the SYDA Audio and Video Tapes and the AV
hardware used for any evidence of intended use as "mind-control",
"brain-washing" techniques.

Tony P..
End of "SYDA & Mind Control Technology IV"
The Fifth part of a Five Part Note.

Are You a Spiritual John? (Written in 1995 by a very angry ex devotee)

Subj: Are you a spiritual John? 1of3
Date: 95-08-30 17:15:33 EDT
From: Howie Sm


Dear AOL readers,

Many SYDA people aren't following a guru, or a traditional sadhana, or
anything remotely resembling these things. In the worst New Age tradition, they are making religion up as they go along according to whim. For example, someone recently wrote online:

"Opinions about things that happened do not reside on the same page as
experiences of the Self. Whether Baba was perfect, Gurumayi was perfect, or any human being is perfect is irrelevant to sadhana."

This subjectivism is dead wrong according to Siddha Yoga. Baba used to go on at length about how the disciple had a duty to test and evaluate the
qualifications of a guru. In Baba's own words, "Such a being (a false guru) can never be a giver of liberation, for he is utterly false." Baba cites the Kamaksha Tantra in his in-depth description of the characteristics of a false guru, which he describes as someone "who has not reached the state of Guruhood."

(This same Baba, as Howie is well aware, was abusing money, sex and power. But he was the founder of Siddha Yoga and that was what he told people, straight up front--in the early days. It is too bad they ignored it)

Baba wrote in several places that noticing if your guru is engaged in
wrongdoings is HIGHLY RELEVANT TO SIDDHA YOGA SADHANA. My guess is that Baba would agree that a disciple should not live a lie. That a disciple should not be a brainwashed ostrich.

And any decent person would agree that oldtimers who have seen abuses should speak out to newcomers, since nowadays
a knowledge of the SYDA lies is hard and dangerous to acquire, since thereare a trillion zombie denialists and a thousand puppet lawyers ready to crush you if you openly talk about the SYDA colossus.

The bottom line of Siddha Yoga is: it is a guru yoga, a yoga based on a
siddha (perfect) guru. That is why it is called SIDDHA yoga. This idea is
printed on every Siddha Yoga publication, including the smallest circular.
Yet few wish to talk about this, perhaps because it clashes with the
embarrassing reality. Most try to make up their own ad hoc philosophies.

Subj: Are you a spiritual John? 2of3
Date: 95-08-30 17:17:13 EDT
From: Howie Sm


Dear AOL readers,

One of the few who has acknowledged online the basic idea of Siddha
Yoga--that Siddha Yoga requires a Siddha just as potato soup requires a
potato--is Kaiwahine. Even though I disagree with her, I feel we have a
basis for productive discussion, since we both respect the central tenet of
Siddha Yoga. She (and a handful of others) is clearheaded enough to
recognize that any Siddha yoga should have a qualified guru.

There is no basis for discussion with the hypocritical others who say one
thing but do and think another.

Most of these other so-called devotees treat Gurumayi and SYDA like a prostitute, taking liberties at will--whatever liberties of interpretation they want--depending on what kind of gratification they "want."

One devotee, will cry and pray "grant me this boon, divine Gurumayi," when they "need" her for something; this same devotee will then say
condescendingly to victimized exs "you are responsible for your
disillusionment: you should have just focused on the practices like I do."
What hypocrisy.

Another devotee will say "I trust my experiences" when that is the furthest thing from the truth; these kind of devotees will behave like utter drug addicts, chasing not their inner experiences BUT THE EXTERNAL GURU for expensive "shakti fixes."

These shakti addicts will offer devotions to
Gurumayi IN EXCHANGE FOR having their urges for "bliss" or, if you prefer,

"God's recognition" gratified. In this whoring of yoga, their is often an
exchange of money and the processing of a lot of bodies. No respect of first principles: of the principle of the Siddha guru.

After their moment of gratification, these kind of devotees strenuously
defend their "right" to behave like spiritual Johns by pointing to their

That's neither trust nor devotion. The "trust my
experiences" devotee has no trust of experiences or of anything--they just have an itch they have to scratch, over which they shamelessly exercise no control. They violate the integrity of their minds, they use Gurumayi like a prostitute, they rape the tradition of Siddha Yoga.

Their mantra is: "allegations be damned, I'm getting mine."

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Re: Question about Eyes and Hypnosis
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: July 29, 2008 03:17AM

hey, also, with deep trance hypnosis, you can have even much more powerful experiences than that!
You can have full Hallucinations, both negative and positive.
A negative hallucination is when you literally CANNOT see something right in front of you.
Or you can "talk" to dead people, Abe Lincoln, ghosts, etc.

Its Active Imagination. (I personally think its one's own brain which is generating all of this, just like it generates everything else).

Even someone with no particular spiritual belief when in a light or medium hypnotic state, can have profound experiences.

For example, I have personally done many deep trance sessions, where you go through a process for up to an hour, or a morning, lying on your back, and by the end of it you are 100% immersed in a Waking Dream.
Its very profound stuff, and it feels "real" as the brain generates everything anyway, in a powerful subjective experience.

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Re: Question about Eyes and Hypnosis
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 30, 2010 01:40AM

Found this on a discussion elsewhere of Oscar Ichazo's work. Ichazo's group Arica has had a messy history.




'Tuckey believes that the method of gazing steadily into the subject s eyes produces deep hypnotic sleep, but warns that it may cause the hypnotist himself to succumb, and become hypnotised himself. Some authorities state that this procedure causes the subject to become a helpless automaton. Method:

' Practised by looking fixedly and pertinaciously into the subject s eyes at a distance of a few inches, and at the same time holding the hands. In a few minutes all expression goes out of the face, and the subject sees nothing but the operator s eyes, which shine with intense brilliancy. '



I thought this was interesting in connection with Ichazo's "traspaso" technique. The following is a description of the "traspaso" technique based on Naranjo's report:

'... Naranjo went through some experiences with Ichazo that he considered surprising and convincing, of a different nature than the ordinary.... Some of these experiences were through direct contact with Ichazo; for instance, through a technique called "direct transmission of consciousness", which Ichazo calls by the Spanish phrase "traspaso." This technique involves two people sitting in front of each other staring directly into each other's eyes and, through certain meditative and ritual processes, they can achieve a shared consciousness....'


in Timothy Wilson's autobiographical account of his experiences in Arica, All is My Own Dream, he mentions his experience of seeing Ichazo's eye becoming huge and brilliant during the "traspaso" exercise. Asked about this, Ichazo said "That's the Tiger Eye".

Wilson had a series of "visions" in this state.

In the above article on hypnosis, Chester notes the three ingredients for success in hypnosis, when discussing another technique: "it excited the imagination of the subject, concentrated his attention, and held him in a state of expectancy: the three essentials for success"

In the section on "Hypnosis among the Arabs" Chester writes that, among "certain important Sufi groups", hypnotic techniques are used only in a very controlled fashion:

"The reason for this is the belief-- or perhaps the fact-- that the personality touched by hypnosis is only a superficial one... experiencing hypnotic states may cause someone to imagine that these are touching a really deep area of his consciousness.... hypnotic states are associated with role-playing: play-acting if you like. To play a part is one thing: to play a part and to imagine that this is something real or significant is very much something else."

Regarding the 'Traspaso' exercise used in Arica groups, here is a description of how it was utilized and some very upsetting situations that ensued--and 'upsetting' is putting matters mildly. Sterling Doughty gives a more detailed description of Traspaso and the increasingly stress ridden group context in which it was done.

Posted - 01 Oct 2006 : 04:09:00 AM


Article from New Yorker article 1973 on Arica.


Thirty years later, The Anticult wrote about prolonged eyegazing as used by a single
operator and warned us.


But, per the correspondance quoted by Doughty with a former member of Arica it is important to keep in mind that even if done in pairs in a group, and as part of a supposedly 'democratic' process prolonged eyegazing techiques may lead to very hazardous consequences if the group is run by someone who has failed to disclose his or her actual agenda with all participants beforehand.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2010 01:45AM by corboy.

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Re: Question about Eyes and Hypnosis
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 14, 2012 10:33PM

A very informative paper on this subject. Well worth copying on paper for personal files.

Here is a paper that describes the process of 'cult induction'

Published over twenty years ago, yet absolutely current.


Cult Induction:Hypnotic Communication Patterns in Contemporary Cults

Ericksonian Psychotherapy, Ed. By Jeffrey Zeig (Mazel, New York) 1985

By Hillel Zeitlin

Cults have been a part of every society, representing alternative lifestyles, ideologies, faiths, and social forms. As such they traditionally have served a social function of being reformers and change agents (Appel, 1983). Usually they have begun as fringe elements that eventually are either incorporated into the broader society or die out. Modern cults are distinguished from many of their historical predecessors by a near universal emphasis on consciousness and consciousness-altering practices. This emphasis, as well as deceitful and antisocial actions in the recruitment and maintenance of members, has generated much controversy.

read the rest, here.


This process is especially easy to do in an area already a New Age center, where
people are socialized to devalue critical thinking and to privilege emotion and intuition.

In an area with a high concentration of already receptive people and with enough time and money for leisure pursuits, recruitment is easy.

And intelligence and education is no safeguard. I learned something about these techniques
and went to attend a lecture by someone whom I suspected of using this methodology.

Despite my having researched these methods, this lecturer managed to put 1/3 of the room into a somolent hypnotic trance, and I, despite my awareness of his methods, struggled to stay awake, literally clawing at my eyelids to keep them from going shut.

Guy had 1/3 of the room asleep in just 20 minutes. Only way I could stay awake was to leave.

THats how powerful methods of conversational trance induction can be--and I was already educated to look for them.

People who dont know a thing about this stuff are quite vulnerable and that is sad and scary.

Dealers who sell heroin are pursued by the authorities. But there is as yet no legal recognition that one can induce altered and addictive states of conscious without the need to sell a drug that is classified as illegal.

Disclaimer: All such information is published here on Rick Ross's website for purposes of healing and emancipation.

Anyone who uses this information to dominate other human persons for personal gain will be turned into a monster.

Abuse of this technology turns you into a weak worm, unable to enjoy or function in humanity.

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Re: Question about Eyes and Hypnosis
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 14, 2012 10:37PM

Sparkly Eyes Technique

Discussed here


Friends, an interesting task is to take a photo of a guru or New Age mega star, and try with the aid of a mirror, to mimic the expression and even position of his or her hands.

In most cases, you will discover that you cannot maintain that facial expression for very long--unless, perhaps you have had training in performing arts.

Some New Age healers and workshop leaders have photos of their hands propping their chins.

Try to mimic their poses and try especially to mimic how they curl all their fingers.

Then see how long you can hold that posture.

If that posture is not easy to form or even to maintain, that will indicate the extent to which that seemingly spontenous gesture is staged.

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Re: Question about Eyes and Hypnosis
Posted by: yasmin ()
Date: August 15, 2012 01:04AM

Hi Corboy; even if you are fairly hypnotically suggestable, (which I probably am) I find that generally you can stop someone from messing with you.Generally I prefer not to go to places where people like to give others advice on what to believe which avoids most of it; however there are some tricks you can use to help yourself not go down the rabbit hole if you don't want to.
Firstly before you go in a questionable setting a little self hypnosis, for example imagining setting up a barrier between you and the speaker can help. And when the speaker says something like " do you remember when you felt like ( insert strong emotion there)..there is no need to actually do what the speaker wants you to do.
If it seems a bit forceful, you can sit there with a pleasant smile on your face and imagine cup cakes.
You won't get the wonderful "I'm part of the group" buzz, but you do get to think for yourself.
Don't know if this will work for everyone, but just some ideas if you are stuck in a situation that you can't get out of.

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Re: Question about Eyes and Hypnosis
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 15, 2012 04:47AM

The reason I am pretty tough about this topic is that I went to a public lecture in which the speaker claimed to speak about the story of his own life. He never said a thing about using trance.

If he had had the honesty to tell us up front that he would be using trance as part of his presentation, I would have left, or chosen not to attend at all.

When trying to identify methods being used, one has to listen to some of what is being said. If someone is especially good at conversational trance, given even partial attention can still be enough to leave one vulnerable.

That is why Rick's advice is accurate--best not to attend such events at all. The trance techs have had 30 plus years to refine their techniques and are unrestrained by ethics.

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Re: Question about Eyes and Hypnosis
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 17, 2012 10:44PM

Mere experiences that get mislabeled as Illumination or Dropping


Someone was discussing Tolle on an older Google listserve and mentioned something.

There is a discussion on the Google listserve that raise intersting points


[]'A cessation of mentation as a result of intense concentration _may_ be
a precursor to Awakening in some "accidental" enlightenment
experiences..... (Echart Tolle** or John Wren-Lewis'), or in some
very thorough systematic approaches (like the Theravada), but it is
not Awakening itself: or, put it this way, it isn't a _necessary_
precursor to Awakening.

(((Corboy note::the author generously names Eckhart Tolle's but ET's hunger for money and publicity calls his alleged enlightement into question so far as I am concerned Corboy),

'In fact, Awakening is a BREAK in any form of
samadhi-like concentration (taking "samadhi" in its lesser meaning -
for it can also mean the Result itself, in some systems). It's at
complete right angles to anything you've ever experienced or imagined.
(I say this based on your writings - you may be playing a game of some
sort, but I am responding to your words as they stand.)

"It's like this: if you fix your gaze, the saccades (the little
jerkings about) that your eyes constantly unconsciously make cease,
and because the visual system normally sees things by noticing
borders, edges and differences
, the visual system "whites out".

"(Author turned aside to comment to discussion participants)This is taken advantage of in some Daoist practices, and some Dzogchen Longde practices, if I'm not mistaken - right Namdrol?)

(Corboy note: very interesting as the Vajrayana practices aim at Clear Light. If that CL is being produced by a mundane neurological glitch due to prolonged fixation of the eyes then this calls into question all the various white light experiences people and religous systems use to validate claims of enlightenment.)[/[/i]i]

"Since the whole mental system works in an analogous way, by noticing
differences, I believe something analogous may happen if the _whole
mental system_ is "frozen" in a concentrative state - it ceases to
experience anything at all. BUT THAT IS NOT AWAKENING.

(Corboy note: in the early days of Guru mahara-ji, a lot was made abotu 'white light' experiences. Ditto for clear white light being seen in some systems as a sign of advancement.

If this is merely caused by fixing one gaze and its only a normal neurological event that is given an excess of meaning that it doesnt actually have on its own, its scary to imagine people throwing lives and money into the lap of someone on account of a neuro-tingle)


A person named Daniel was doing sitting meditation and reported this

"it happens that for a long time I lose awareness of everything -- of myself, of time, of my mind, of objects -- everything.

I sit and it feels like 10 minutes have passed, when in fact one hour or more have passed. Is this alright ?

Am I doing something wrong ? It is almost as if I fell in deep sleep, except that I don't think this is the case because I had my wife watching me to see if this was the case, which wasn't.

"Blogger LV said...

You're hitting a state of non-perception. If possible, you need to find an experienced meditation teacher to get you past this obstacle. Your experience sounds exactly like it:

"The second state was one I happened to hit one night when my concentration was extremely one-pointed, and so refined that it refused settle on or label even the most fleeting mental objects. I dropped into a state in which I lost all sense of the body, of any internal/external sounds, or of any thoughts or perceptions at all — although there was just enough tiny awareness to let me know, when I emerged, that I hadn't been asleep. I found that I could stay there for many hours, and yet time would pass very quickly. Two hours would seem like two minutes. I could also "program" myself to come out at a particular time.

After hitting this state several nights in a row, I told Ajaan Fuang about it, and his first question was, "Do you like it?" My answer was "No," because I felt a little groggy the first time I came out. "Good," he said. "As long as you don't like it, you're safe. Some people really like it and think it's nibbana or cessation. Actually, it's the state of non-perception (asaññi-bhava). It's not even right concentration, because there's no way you can investigate anything in there to gain any sort of discernment. But it does have other uses." He then told me of the time he had undergone kidney surgery and, not trusting the anesthesiologist, had put himself in that state for the duration of the operation.

In both these states of wrong concentration, the limited range of awareness was what made them wrong. If whole areas of your awareness are blocked off, how can you gain all-around insight? And as I've noticed in years since, people adept at blotting out large areas of awareness through powerful one-pointedness also tend to be psychologically adept at dissociation and denial. This is why Ajaan Fuang, following Ajaan Lee, taught a form of breath meditation that aimed at an all-around awareness of the breath energy throughout the body, playing with it to gain a sense of ease, and then calming it so that it wouldn't interfere with a clear vision of the subtle movements of the mind. This all-around awareness helped to eliminate the blind spots where ignorance likes to lurk."


"Another type of wrong concentration is one that a modern practice tradition, following DN 1, calls a state of non-perception (asaññi).. I

n this state, which is essentially a concentration of subtle aversion — the result of a strongly focused determination not to stay with any one object — everything seems to cease: the mind blanks out, with no perception of sights or sounds, or of one's own body or thoughts. There is just barely enough mindfulness to know that one hasn't fainted or fallen asleep.

One can stay there for long periods of time, and yet the experience will seem momentary. One can even determine beforehand when one will leave the state; but on emerging from it, one may feel somewhat dazed or drugged, a reaction caused by the intense aversive force of the concentration that induced the state to begin with.

There are other forms of wrong concentration, but a general test is that right concentration is a mindful, fully alert state.

Any state of stillness without clear mindfulness and alertness is wrong."

(If one dislikes the term 'wrong' one can substitute the term 'misleading' as in a map giving inaccurate directions. Corboy)


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Re: Question about Eyes and Hypnosis
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 22, 2012 01:23AM

Long before modern methods of narrative trance induction were invented, many people in different parts of the world devised ways to structure social gatherings to ensure fixed and focused attention.

Dim lighting, focused on the authority figure, one way communication, confusion, a state of arousal (eagerness to follow the rules, fear of making a mistake and being banished, using unplaceable accents and muttering, use of unconventional language--permissible for poets--all this combined could induce trance.

Here is a menu of late 19th century and early 20th century authority figures, some artists, one charlatan. It is hard to tell to what extent the artists knew they were creating trance inductive environments, but they did seek to evoke moods.


For a compare and contrast on how someone can change from a shy and talented young person into someone who runs a personality driven inner circle, get and read

Secret Germany:Stefan George and His Circle by Norton (the surname is pronounced “gay-org-uh”) "


This book can feel painful to read. George discovered early that he had homosexual longings, and lived in a place and time where one faced the grave risk of criminal persecution and total loss of civil rights (Paragraph 175 of the Wilhelmine German code of law). This sensitive man was placed at war with his own true self and at odds with his surroundings.

This said, and allowances made, Stefan George's method of arranging his professional and social life has so very many similarities to personality cult process that his career is worth our attention. George's method of arranging interviews are worth comparing with how Gurdjieff stage managed meetings with potential recruits. Recruiters looked for like minded people, vetted them, aroused feelings of anticipation, and George making himself aloof and secretive added to the allure.

Early in his travels, George was in Paris and earned the trust of the young artists who were allowed to visit the poet Mallerme. In this section of Norton's book, one is given a description of how tightly organized the Mallerme gatherings were--very similar to a guru receiving disciples.


The 'Globe Room' George's meeting room was set up just so for his reception of aspirants. Its worth contrasting this with how Gurdjieff stage managed early meetings.

A meeting with Stefan George


Secret Germany: Stefan George and his Circle-page 424 Back at the Globe Room, Steiner was asked to put on a camel-hair robe, while George and Gundolf, who was also present, both wore white.

More descriptions of how George lit his room


Contrast with Gurdjieff in his early recruiting days as Prince Ozay

Quote[] evening, rather late, he said: "There is someone I want you to meet. Come along with me."

He gave no explanation except to say that the person we were going to see was one "of whom there are but few in the world." He also enjoined strict secrecy regarding our visit, because the man concerned was "in hiding." Why, he didn't explain.

He led the way to a house at the bottom of a small street not far from the Nicolas station. Here at a door on a bare staircase suggesting modest bourgeois dwellings he rang a bell. We were admitted to a very plain apartment. Lev Lvovitch greeted the woman who let us in, but did not introduce me. He walked straight down the passage of the flat and opened a door at the end. This doorway appeared to have been knocked through the wall of the flat beyond, which was larger and more sumptuous. There was a marked oriental touch in its decorations. The walls of the hall were adorned with carpets, wrought-iron lamps with coloured glass hung from the ceiling. Evidently completely at home, the Lion peeped into one of the rooms, then signalled to me to follow.

The room, fairly large, was draped with curtains and other hangings, with lamps to match. In one corner was a large low divan piled with coloured cushions. On this divan two men sat cross-legged, playing chess with a set of ornamental pieces. On an octagonal table beside them were coffee and cups. From time to time the players reached out to take a sip. Judging from their looks neither of them was European. One, wearing a patterned silk dressing-gown and a turban, was thickset, dark, with a short, bushy black beard. The other, dressed in a slack lounge suit with a scarf in place of collar and tie, had tan-coloured leathery skin, high cheekbones, slanting eyes, and a little goatee beard. Except for a curt nod neither of them paid the slightest attention when we entered. They went on playing their game, exchanging comments in a language I couldn't understand.

"Coffee?" asked Lev Lvovitch, signalling me to a stool.

He poured it out and then looked on at the game. It was soon over, amid a discussion presumably as to what the loser ought to have done at a critical juncture. Apparently the man in the turban had won. He turned, and, seeing me, said, as if I had been there all the evening: "You play?" He spoke Russian with a marked accent.

"Not very well," I replied, "but I like it."

For answer he made a gesture inviting me to take the place of his late opponent, who got up to make way for me and started to talk volubly to Lev Lvovitch.

"Take your shoes off if you would be more comfortable," said my host.

I did so, and was ashamed to find I had a hole in my sock. I tried to hide it when I doubled my feet under me, but to my embarrassment he pointed at it, smiled, and said: "You believe in ventilation! Good thing—nothing like fresh air! ... Black or white?"—and he held out his closed hands with two pawns in them. When I had picked white I noticed that the other hand had held a white pawn too.

One factor that makes Stefan George's career worth studying and comparing with other, crasser gurus is that George had little interest in money. He chose to work through a small network of supporters, and preferred governance over a small group of initiates whom he could trust to adore him and over whom he could feel secure.

Stefan George was renowned as a poet. Until Norton published this biography, little on George was available in English and what little of it was shrouded in the mythologizing that originated with George himself.

Stefan George appeared to have had an emotionally impovrished upbringing.

He sustained himself by a feeling of destiny and specialness, but kept aloof, unable to have friends except on his own terms.

But when in Paris, he was able to meet the symbolist poet, Mallerme. Mallermet had exalted views of poetry and the true role of the poet and that art when real is only understandable to a small elite with sufficiently elevated understanding.

Mallerme held regular scheduled talks. He would hold forth, brilliantly. None dared question him. People were not even allowed to attend unless one of Mallerme's disciples vetted the person and decided the person had the right attitude.

Anyone who dared ask an insensitive question would be frowned on by the gathered disciples.

In short,, though Mallerme was an artist, a poet, with no pretensions to offer salvation or even a political programe, and was quite generous to new talent, he had arranged his own gathering to function much like a guru centered satsang.

Young Stefan George was electrified by this and even if unconsciously, sensed this was how to live his own life and ensure emotional support, while keeping the friendships under his own control and on his own terms. He started his poetic career inspired by Verlaine and Mallerme and only later and rather painfully, decided to forge his campaign to arbitrate over the German poetic world.

Anyone who did not like George's poetry even if it was mild and tactful disagreement, was instantly rejected.

Cut cold.

Gradually, over years, George did assemble a circle (known as the George-Kries) and published a magazine. He spent much time in Munich and Mt Veritas area. As the years passed and he lived in his safe controlled environment, in charge of it at all times, he became more and more ego driven, convinced that he was not merely a poet but an arbiter of destiny. One of his statements was that to write poetry was to reign. Meeting him was difficult, and one had to be subject to quizzing by his inner circle before being permitted to visit and submit to further questioning/interrogation by The Master himself.

In short, Stefan George was a small time dictator over a poetry circle he regarded as the true, secret Germany.

Yet, with all this, he became honored as a poet. Schoenberg set some of George's compositions to music.

Several of George's disciples tried to assassinate Hitler in 1945. But what may have given them fortitude was a view that they served the true Secret Germany, and that Hitler had proved himself unworthy.

In the German speaking areas, there were others who led charisma driven movements.

Frithjof Schuon. One area where he is strangely similar to George is that both were in love. From afar, Schuon adored a woman named Madeleine.

When both George and Schuon lost contact with their adored ones, they made their adored lost loves the focus of devotion.


A new focus for George's work emerged: the series of Maximin-Gedichte center on George's belief in the transcendence of Maximin's earthy life - his idealized figure becomes for George the Stern des Bundes, "one of the new awakened spirits who would one day form the new kingdom on earth--see below


Schuon required that his followers in the Alawiyya (Schuon's purportedly Sufi order.)join him in this “unhappy love.” “Whoever does not love Madeleine is not of the order!” Against the Modern World, page 119 Mark A Sedwick


Like Gurdjieff and George, Schuon took care with arranging lights and lamps.

Against the Modern World: Traditionalism and the Secret Intellectual history of the Twentieth Century

page 122 ...... with candles and incense being used during dhikr ceremonies, part of what a hostile source referred to as a general preoccupation with mise-en-scene.... ... Two Moroccan lamps of finely chiseled copper cast delicate lace patterns on the ceilings and walls... of truth. Schuon's preoccupation with ambience is visible even today in the houses of Schuons followers, which are, almost all beautifully decordated in a 'Traditional style." ..

(Sedwick, the author mentioned that the prayer rooms of Schuonians usually have a dagger. He has never been able to learn why the dagger is so often part of the decor.

Rudolf Steiner. One most remarkable similarity is that Steiner designed type fonts and Stefan George went so far as to design a type font of his own, as well.

Reading the way George arranged the social patterns and his dominence over his small circle can give clues on how larger guru centered cults operate.


George's belief that he was writing for, and indeed could only be appreciated by, an audience of the elite. To this end, he began to gather around him a circle of admirers, selecting at first amongst his peers and contemporaries, and only later restricting his attentions to the young disciples who sought him out. This group of friends and followers, known from its beginnings as the George-Kreis, gradually took on almost cult-like rituals and symbolism, emphasizing the renewal of culture through the power of youth and beauty.

The strength of George's belief in this cult of beauty is reflected not only in many of his later, quite monumental works, such as Der Stern des Bundes and the prophetically titled Das neue Reich, but in the decisive `Maximin-Erlebnis,' which provided the poet with inspiration and material for much of his later poetry: In 1903 George, during one of his frequent stays in Munich, became acquainted with the 15-year old Maximilian Kronberger. After encountering him on the street several times, George simply approached the young boy and introduced himself. Maximilian became George's close friend and companion over the next year, and was admired by many members of the George-Kreis not only for his youth and beauty, but for his poetic talent as well. Indeed, George saw in Maximilian such perfection that he considered the boy to be an incarnation of the godhead, and worthy of absolute devotion. In 1904, Maximilian died of meningitis at 16.

This shattered George's stability and after driving him to the brink of suicide brought a change in his poetry, which became increasingly transcendental, prophetic, and obscure. A new focus for George's work emerged: the series of Maximin-Gedichte center on George's belief in the transcendence of Maximin's earthy life - his idealized figure becomes for George the Stern des Bundes, "one of the new awakened spirits who would one day form the new kingdom on earth."

George's subsequently famous Kreis (Circle) of like-minded friends was beginning to rally about the same time. George considered his circle to be the embodiment and defender of the "real" but "secret" Germany, opposed to the false values of contemporary bourgeois society.

Some of his disciples, friends, and admirers were themselves historians, philosophers, and poets. Their works profoundly affected the intellectual and cultural attitudes of Germany's elite during the critical postwar years of the Weimar Republic. Essentially conservative in temperament and outlook, George and his circle occupy a central place in the cultural history of Germany with their political vision of a secret Germany, antagonistic to humanism, to democracy, and to progress.

The George-Kreis , his elite circle of friends and admirers, was in some ways a cultic group with hermetic mysticism and rituals.



At the surface, there were doubtless some similarities between George's programme of a hierarchic reformation based upon a new aristocracy of mind and spirit, and the ideologies of the fascist movements as they were beginning to flourish in several European countries during the nineteen-twenties. Though to him, for his attitude and sentiments, it was impossible to identify his cause with the Nazism that was to take over Germany, the ambiguity became clear in 1933, when some of his followers embraced the upheaval wholeheartedly, while others, like his oldest companion, the Jewish poet Karl Wolfskehl, were forced to emigrate. George himself, who was already fatally ill, declined all honours by which the new rulers tried to gain his support, and, silent but demonstrative, left Germany to end his life elsewhere. He died on the 4th of December 1933, in Locarno, Ticino, Switzerland, several months after the Nazi takeover.

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