Soka Gakkai
Posted by:
tinyyogini
()
Date: August 18, 2006 01:09AM
Can someone please tell me why is this group being called a "cult"? I'm not thinking of joining, but my friend is in it (5 years now), and I see absolutely no difference in her or her behavior (I've known her for 15 years), except that she has found a way to practice Buddhism that also helps her deal with her life problems. She also likes the sense of community.
She doesn't "love" everything about it and may not agree with all of the things that go on, but who does? Isn't the idea to practice religion the way you see fit, even if you don't agree with every little detail of how it's done?
I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this for me. Is there something I should be concerned about for her? I'd be happy to hear from current members, as well as ex-members.
Thanks!
Tiny yogini
She doesn't "love" everything about it and may not agree with all of the things that go on, but who does? Isn't the idea to practice religion the way you see fit, even if you don't agree with every little detail of how it's done?
I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this for me. Is there something I should be concerned about for her? I'd be happy to hear from current members, as well as ex-members.
Thanks!
Tiny yogini
Soka Gakkai
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: August 18, 2006 01:34AM
See [www.culteducation.com]
Soka Gakkai has a history of controversy surrounding it through serious complaints, bad press etc.
The above linked archive has articles about this.
Also see [www.toride.org]
This is a Web site run by former members of the group.
Soka Gakkai has a history of controversy surrounding it through serious complaints, bad press etc.
The above linked archive has articles about this.
Also see [www.toride.org]
This is a Web site run by former members of the group.
Soka Gakkai
Posted by:
tinyyogini
()
Date: August 18, 2006 05:51AM
Thanks, but none of the articles are explicit as to "why" SGI is considered a cult. And frankly, a lot of articles are outdated. In addition, none of the articles state that the group was "convicted" of anything, but simply talk about allegations.
I'm hoping to hear from real people with real, direct experiences, or a link to an article (from a reliable source) stating what they've been convicted of. I'm aware that Japan doesn't have the greatest reputation for writing unbiased articles. I'm really trying to keep an open, unbiased mind about this.
Namaste!
I'm hoping to hear from real people with real, direct experiences, or a link to an article (from a reliable source) stating what they've been convicted of. I'm aware that Japan doesn't have the greatest reputation for writing unbiased articles. I'm really trying to keep an open, unbiased mind about this.
Namaste!
Soka Gakkai
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: August 18, 2006 08:10PM
tinyyogini:
You sound like a devotee that doesn't want to know or learn about anything negative.
I have received repeated complaints about SGI from former members, families and others concerned.
The group has a negative history of bad press and serious complaints as reflected by the articles historically.
Ikeda is an abosolute auhtoritarian leader. He controls and runs SGI much like Rev. Moon operates the Unification Church.
Allegations of "brainwashing" through group indoctrination at SGI have been made repeatedly.
There are ex-member sites with first-hand reports of abuses.
[www.sokacult.com]
[www.geocities.com]
[www.savethemanatee.com]
More information about SGI at cult watching sites.
[www.freedomofmind.com]
[www.factnet.org]
You sound like a devotee that doesn't want to know or learn about anything negative.
I have received repeated complaints about SGI from former members, families and others concerned.
The group has a negative history of bad press and serious complaints as reflected by the articles historically.
Ikeda is an abosolute auhtoritarian leader. He controls and runs SGI much like Rev. Moon operates the Unification Church.
Allegations of "brainwashing" through group indoctrination at SGI have been made repeatedly.
There are ex-member sites with first-hand reports of abuses.
[www.sokacult.com]
[www.geocities.com]
[www.savethemanatee.com]
More information about SGI at cult watching sites.
[www.freedomofmind.com]
[www.factnet.org]
Soka Gakkai
Posted by:
tinyyogini
()
Date: August 18, 2006 10:30PM
Why are you jumping to the conclusion that I am a devotee? Did it ever occur to you that some people might be more careful than others? My friend is in SGI and I met someone recently (who I began dating) who is in SGI as well. There's nothing wrong with digging a little "deeper".
The website www.sokacult.com has no blog entries related to the SGI. Whoever wrote them has deleted them from the site. All of the links that start with www.cebunet.com are dead. There is one page and it's a dead end. I can't find anything "juicy" and "recent" from a reliable source. A lot of magazine articles are clearly biased (even some American ones!) and the Japanese media is notorious for writing damaging articles about this group. In addition, I've spent countless hours trying to find one instance in which the group or Ikeda has actually been convicted of something. I have found nothing.
As an educated person, I don't swallow any information easily and always question my sources. I remain skeptcal, of course, and I'm wary of getting involved with someone who may be "brainwashed". But that's why I'm searching so hard. If these two people seem totally normal and don't preach about what they are studying, what else is there to look for? They behave like any other person I've met who practices a religion.
You want to talk about mind control? How about the Catholic church, who tells people that they'll go to "hell" if they do something against the church. Isn't that the same thing? And don't all religions require a belief in their system? Granted, this is why I'm against joining ANY organized religion.
My question still stands: Is there anyone with personal experience from the last 5 years who is willing to share something?
The website www.sokacult.com has no blog entries related to the SGI. Whoever wrote them has deleted them from the site. All of the links that start with www.cebunet.com are dead. There is one page and it's a dead end. I can't find anything "juicy" and "recent" from a reliable source. A lot of magazine articles are clearly biased (even some American ones!) and the Japanese media is notorious for writing damaging articles about this group. In addition, I've spent countless hours trying to find one instance in which the group or Ikeda has actually been convicted of something. I have found nothing.
As an educated person, I don't swallow any information easily and always question my sources. I remain skeptcal, of course, and I'm wary of getting involved with someone who may be "brainwashed". But that's why I'm searching so hard. If these two people seem totally normal and don't preach about what they are studying, what else is there to look for? They behave like any other person I've met who practices a religion.
You want to talk about mind control? How about the Catholic church, who tells people that they'll go to "hell" if they do something against the church. Isn't that the same thing? And don't all religions require a belief in their system? Granted, this is why I'm against joining ANY organized religion.
My question still stands: Is there anyone with personal experience from the last 5 years who is willing to share something?
Soka Gakkai
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: August 18, 2006 10:43PM
tinyyogini:
OK. You are not a devotee, but close to devotees.
I have received serious complaints about SGI every year since launching this site in 1996.
Very few Buddhist groups generate any complaints whatsoever.
No complaints have come in regarding any other Japanese Buddhist groups, or the Tibetan Buddhists that follow the Delai Lama.
SGI is another story.
See [www.culteducation.com]
This link explains why some groups are called "cults," such as SGI.
[b:67eb158d0b]Isn't the word "cult" a pejorative label used to discriminate against new religious movements?[/b:67eb158d0b]
No. It is disingenuous to ignore the historical significance and modern day applications of the word cult. Today many controversial groups, that have been called "cults", are seeking to either eliminate the word, or create through fear of litigation a reluctance to use the term. Some cult apologists have literally said that "'cult' is a four letter word," and should be replaced by the politically correct title "new religious movement" (NRM). However, historically cults have always been with us and they continue to be a part of the world today.
[b:67eb158d0b]How is the word "cult" defined? [/b:67eb158d0b]
Webster's Dictionary defines a cult as:
"1. A formal religious veneration 2. A system of religious beliefs and rituals also its body of adherents; 3. A religion regarded as "unorthodox or spurious."; 4. A system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator; 5. a: A great devotion to a person, idea, thing; esp.: such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad, b: A usually small circle of persons united by devotion or allegiance to an artistic or intellectual movement or figure."
This definition obviously could include everything from Barbie collectors to old "Deadheads," "Trekkies" to diehard Elvis fans. American history might also include within such a definition the devoted followers of Mary Baker Eddy the founder of Christian Science, or the Mormons united through their devotion to Joseph Smith. Both these religious groups were once largely regarded as "unorthodox or spurious." However, the most important concern today is not simply who might be somewhat "cultic" in their devotion now or historically, but what groups might represent potential problems regarding personal or public safety. That is, groups that are potentially unsafe and/or destructive.
Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who wrote the definitive book about thought reform (often called "brainwashing") also wrote a paper about cult formation. Lifton defined a cult as having the following three characteristics:
A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.
A process [is in use] call[ed] coercive persuasion or thought reform.
Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.
[b:67eb158d0b]Don't some groups once seen as "cults" often move more into the mainstream, becoming generally respected sects or religions? [/b:67eb158d0b]
Yes. There are certainly examples of groups that were once perhaps thought of as "cults" that have evolved into relatively mainstream sects or religions. Such examples as the Seventh Day Adventists once led by Ellen White, or the Mormons, also known as the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints.
But it is also important to note that some groups, which may have once been labeled as "cults" continue to be controversial due to their unsafe or destructive practices. Two examples of groups that continue to be problematic and often destructive are the former Russellites, now known as "Jehovah's Witnesses," that once prohibited organ transplants and still expects its members to refuse blood transfusions, which has resulted in numerous deaths. And the Christian Scientists founded by Mary Baker Eddy who often reject medical treatment, again resulting in the loss of life. Some groups may say they have renounced unsafe or destructive practices, only to be exposed later as guilty of the same extremes and abuses.
OK. You are not a devotee, but close to devotees.
I have received serious complaints about SGI every year since launching this site in 1996.
Very few Buddhist groups generate any complaints whatsoever.
No complaints have come in regarding any other Japanese Buddhist groups, or the Tibetan Buddhists that follow the Delai Lama.
SGI is another story.
See [www.culteducation.com]
This link explains why some groups are called "cults," such as SGI.
[b:67eb158d0b]Isn't the word "cult" a pejorative label used to discriminate against new religious movements?[/b:67eb158d0b]
No. It is disingenuous to ignore the historical significance and modern day applications of the word cult. Today many controversial groups, that have been called "cults", are seeking to either eliminate the word, or create through fear of litigation a reluctance to use the term. Some cult apologists have literally said that "'cult' is a four letter word," and should be replaced by the politically correct title "new religious movement" (NRM). However, historically cults have always been with us and they continue to be a part of the world today.
[b:67eb158d0b]How is the word "cult" defined? [/b:67eb158d0b]
Webster's Dictionary defines a cult as:
"1. A formal religious veneration 2. A system of religious beliefs and rituals also its body of adherents; 3. A religion regarded as "unorthodox or spurious."; 4. A system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator; 5. a: A great devotion to a person, idea, thing; esp.: such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad, b: A usually small circle of persons united by devotion or allegiance to an artistic or intellectual movement or figure."
This definition obviously could include everything from Barbie collectors to old "Deadheads," "Trekkies" to diehard Elvis fans. American history might also include within such a definition the devoted followers of Mary Baker Eddy the founder of Christian Science, or the Mormons united through their devotion to Joseph Smith. Both these religious groups were once largely regarded as "unorthodox or spurious." However, the most important concern today is not simply who might be somewhat "cultic" in their devotion now or historically, but what groups might represent potential problems regarding personal or public safety. That is, groups that are potentially unsafe and/or destructive.
Psychiatrist Robert Jay Lifton, who wrote the definitive book about thought reform (often called "brainwashing") also wrote a paper about cult formation. Lifton defined a cult as having the following three characteristics:
A charismatic leader, who increasingly becomes an object of worship as the general principles that may have originally sustained the group lose power.
A process [is in use] call[ed] coercive persuasion or thought reform.
Economic, sexual, and other exploitation of group members by the leader and the ruling coterie.
[b:67eb158d0b]Don't some groups once seen as "cults" often move more into the mainstream, becoming generally respected sects or religions? [/b:67eb158d0b]
Yes. There are certainly examples of groups that were once perhaps thought of as "cults" that have evolved into relatively mainstream sects or religions. Such examples as the Seventh Day Adventists once led by Ellen White, or the Mormons, also known as the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints.
But it is also important to note that some groups, which may have once been labeled as "cults" continue to be controversial due to their unsafe or destructive practices. Two examples of groups that continue to be problematic and often destructive are the former Russellites, now known as "Jehovah's Witnesses," that once prohibited organ transplants and still expects its members to refuse blood transfusions, which has resulted in numerous deaths. And the Christian Scientists founded by Mary Baker Eddy who often reject medical treatment, again resulting in the loss of life. Some groups may say they have renounced unsafe or destructive practices, only to be exposed later as guilty of the same extremes and abuses.
Soka Gakkai
Posted by:
upsidedownnewspaper
()
Date: August 19, 2006 12:01AM
Have a look on wikipedia. They have a lengthy entry regarding Sokka Gakkai.
My friend in Japan, a 30 year old, expressed surprise at my suggestion that the group was a cult. "Not like Aum," he said.
The current prime minister, Koizumi, enjoys the great support of Sokka Gakkai, apparently. My friend even went so far as to say it was almost a political party with its strong ties to Koumei-tou, the Koumei democratic party.
I imagine it would be hard to label Sokka Gakkai a cult on the basis of brainwashed devotees given that subservience and 100% devotion to one's group is a aspect of daily life in Japan. But I know very little about the group.
My friend in Japan, a 30 year old, expressed surprise at my suggestion that the group was a cult. "Not like Aum," he said.
The current prime minister, Koizumi, enjoys the great support of Sokka Gakkai, apparently. My friend even went so far as to say it was almost a political party with its strong ties to Koumei-tou, the Koumei democratic party.
I imagine it would be hard to label Sokka Gakkai a cult on the basis of brainwashed devotees given that subservience and 100% devotion to one's group is a aspect of daily life in Japan. But I know very little about the group.
Soka Gakkai
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: August 19, 2006 12:48AM
unsidedownnewspaper:
Wikipedia is not a reliable source.
It can easily be overwhelmed through editing done by special interests.
See their disclaimer.
SGI has repeatedly been called a "cult" for years, and there are serious concerns about its political influence that have often been reported about.
The complaints that I have received from American families mirror complaints about other groups called "cults."
Families are deeply concerned about "undue influence" and acompanying problems tied to SGI.
Like Aum SGI is ruled over by an authoritarian leader Ikeda, who has no meaningful accountability to the membership and is essentially a dictator.
Wikipedia is not a reliable source.
It can easily be overwhelmed through editing done by special interests.
See their disclaimer.
SGI has repeatedly been called a "cult" for years, and there are serious concerns about its political influence that have often been reported about.
The complaints that I have received from American families mirror complaints about other groups called "cults."
Families are deeply concerned about "undue influence" and acompanying problems tied to SGI.
Like Aum SGI is ruled over by an authoritarian leader Ikeda, who has no meaningful accountability to the membership and is essentially a dictator.
Soka Gakkai
Posted by:
tinyyogini
()
Date: August 19, 2006 06:33AM
Rick,
Thank you so much for your input. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify some of this for me. Essentially, I have a personal decision to make regarding whether I can carry on a relationship with someone who may indeed be part of a cult. I suppose the biggest issue I have is whether I'm getting to know an authentic person, or whether I'm getting to know a personality filtered through someone else's beliefs.
In regards to my longtime friend, she's not heavily involved and we have discussed this issue openly. She respects me enough to take me seriously when I voiced my concerns and she's smart enough to do more research for herself. Unfortunately, the man I'm seeing has been involved "heavily" for 17 years and is very defensive about the topic. He feels as though I'm attacking him and the SGI when I only want him to consider some of the things I've read about.
Can you suggest any reading material in regards to how this type of thing can affect romantic relationships as opposed to someone's immediate family?
Thank you so much for your input. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify some of this for me. Essentially, I have a personal decision to make regarding whether I can carry on a relationship with someone who may indeed be part of a cult. I suppose the biggest issue I have is whether I'm getting to know an authentic person, or whether I'm getting to know a personality filtered through someone else's beliefs.
In regards to my longtime friend, she's not heavily involved and we have discussed this issue openly. She respects me enough to take me seriously when I voiced my concerns and she's smart enough to do more research for herself. Unfortunately, the man I'm seeing has been involved "heavily" for 17 years and is very defensive about the topic. He feels as though I'm attacking him and the SGI when I only want him to consider some of the things I've read about.
Can you suggest any reading material in regards to how this type of thing can affect romantic relationships as opposed to someone's immediate family?
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