I was upset this morning, guys. And I'll tell you why: P.E. and his assistant came by this morning in order to bring me my stuff. I hadn't seen P.E. in four-odd months and when I saw him face-to-face again I experienced a mixed emotional reaction. It was very uncomfortable. We got to talking later on and he said that the fire walking deal was a stupid incident that everybody there regrets, and he wishes he hadn't participated in it. He said that most of the information in Wendy's book is "patently false" (his words) or "grossly exaggerated" and said "It wasn't really that bad, like she makes it out to be." I said, "Wasn't that bad, huh? Well, the Hot Seats sure sound like [i:01fcfcba42]they[/i:01fcfcba42] were THAT BAD." He then got upset, started accusing me of being scared away by Wendy's lies and false accusations and says "Well, you never though we were a cult until you met the Duncans." I told him damn right it scared me away, P. So he tells me that the Hot Seats were the best thing that could have happened to him, he said he is grateful to this day to have been Hot Seated (!!!), and said "It was exactly what I needed at the time." He told me that the Hot Seats were a type of group confessional, like confessing to a priest, and that "What went on in the room was supposed to stay in the room. Until Wendy took it out of the room." I said, "So how come [i:01fcfcba42]every single former member[/i:01fcfcba42] that I personally know or that I have had direct or indirect communication with says that TFI is a cult, P? How come nobody else seems to think that the Hot Seats are the best thing that's ever happened to THEM?" At which point P.E. says "This conversation is over, Brian", and hung up.

It was very spooky, seeing and speaking with him again in light of all that I know now. This is a man who has been under the influence of mind control for HIS ENTIRE ADULT LIFE and Nathan if you are reading this I please, don't let me alienate you. You just have no idea of all the people that have been psychologically, spiritually, emotionally, and even sometimes PHYSICALLY abused in their experience with TFI. You have know idea how they screwed me over, man. Right now I am going through a very very emotional stage, I am not sorry that I told you to quit trolling, because I think you are doing it on purpose. I am however sorry about my lack of patience and graciousness. I appreciate your understanding.

This is not a video game, Nathan. I am not a nameless automaton behind a computer somewhere in the ether, nor Doug. We are real people, we are in real pain, and Ole is real evil. I spent some time talking with a guy who is still in a cult today, was mentally kidnappen many years ago, and the complete denial he demonstrated and the lack of empathy and guilt he has in his heart was very disturbing to me. So when you make smartass comments like you it frustrates me so much! You think you know these people so well, but all you know is a voice coming from a computer and a talking head on a TV somewhere! You don't know these people! It frustrates mw so much.

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zeuszor
Until you do read the book, please keep your comments to yourself. I find your insensitivity very upsetting and offensive.

Disregard that one, Nathan. Just do try and be more sensitive, OK?

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counselor47

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zeuszor
Until you do read the book, please keep your comments to yourself. I find your insensitivity very upsetting and offensive.

If Nathan is being pusposefully insensitive or if he is willfully trying to push people's buttons, then he is to be faulted for that. However, the fact that [i:5a619783c7]you[/i:5a619783c7] are offended is more your problem than his. I do not wish to see him go away or stop posting, though I hope he is in the process of learning better social skills in terms of how he talks to people.

I never said that I want him to go away or quit posting counselor47, I said that I wanted him to go away or quit posting [i:5a619783c7]until he's read the book[/i:5a619783c7]. Then he'll sing a different tune.

I understand, zeuszor.

Your post about your encounter with P.E. is fascinating.

As far as what happened at the hot seats remaining in the room, I have been scrupulous not to say anything about anyone's "stuff"--not Ole's, not John's, not Gary's--nobody's. The only person who has said anything inappropriate about any of that is cherenuff1.

But I think the [i:541fba7084]activity[/i:541fba7084] of hotseating people is fair game for discussion as long as we do not go into any specifics about what individuals confessed. I totally agree that everyone who talked about their private stuff with the expectation of confidentiality should have that expectation respected.

Speaking of which, I happen to know that Ole handed a box of materials over to Glenna Whitley that contained some confidential notes that he took on some people's hot seats. That was extraordinarily careless of him. I will give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he did not realize those notes were in there and that he just thought he was sharing some of the notes he had taken when he was researching the concept of the high place identities, but he needs to be more careful with that sort of confidential material.

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I am not sorry that I told you to quit trolling, because I think you are doing it on purpose. I am however sorry about my lack of patience and graciousness. I appreciate your understanding.

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This is not a video game, Nathan. I am not a nameless automaton behind a computer somewhere in the ether, nor Doug. We are real people, we are in real pain, and Ole is real evil. I spent some time talking with a guy who is still in a cult today, was mentally kidnappen many years ago, and the complete denial he demonstrated and the lack of empathy and guilt he has in his heart was very disturbing to me. So when you make smartass comments like you it frustrates me so much! You think you know these people so well, but all you know is a voice coming from a computer and a talking head on a TV somewhere! You don't know these people! It frustrates mw so much.

I am not trying to frustrate you Brian. It can be so hard to know the things that are really going on. This has been a very conflicting issue for me too. I know though that we can have faith in all situations. I will be cautious not to upset you unduly. I can't pretend though and say I believe things I don't in order to keep you from accusing me of being a troll. I guess I just don't see my position as being as outrageous as you do.

You are saying that Glenna Whitley has [i:da20459ff8]seen and read[/i:da20459ff8] those notes, C47? Oh my...

Did she give them back to him?

She saw the notes, read them, and then asked me what they were. When I saw that Ole had given those notes to her I went bat shit. She promised me she wouldn't do anything with them, and she just handed them back to Ole when she returned all the other material.

Again, I think this was just carelessness on Ole's part, but it is something he needs to be careful about. It was just the notes from one round of hot seats, and there were several.

One thing occurs to me that would be a baby step toward making amends to the people that Ole/Trinity has hurt would be to shred those notes. Not, of course, Ole's academic research into the high places, but the notes about specific individuals and the things they confessed on the hot seats. I truly believe that is the reason that Wendy and I are the first people who have spoken out about the problems at Trinity Foundation after leaving. Everyone knows Ole has those notes on them with every secret sin that they confessed, and just the existence of those notes feels pretty intimidating to people.

If you are a Roman Catholic and you go to a priest for confession, he does not keep notes on you and your sins. The whole point is that confessing is supposed to be a way to let go of things, to get past them. At Trinity, it was the opposite of that.

Has anybody contacted Ole or any of the rest of them to let them know about this?

Not that I know of. Like I said, I think it was a careless error on Ole's part, and since Glenna did not use any of that information (except for it may have added to our credibility by helping her understand the hotseat process) and has since returned it to Ole, I don't know what there would be to contact Trinity about. If any of them are reading this thread they can take all this into consideration.

Speaking of Glenna and her piece in the [i:35256c9c42]Observer[/i:35256c9c42], I want to say that when Glenna first started working on that story it was not a given that she would believe us. She began with then intention of being objective and seeing where the chips fell, but in the course of her research she realized that we were the ones telling the truth. The fact is, she actually spent much more time talking to Ole than she did talking to us, so he had plenty of time to give his point of view.