zeuszor:

It will be interesting to read your comments after you have read the book.

The author was a long-term member of Trinity and her husband was once an elder/Levite.

Again, it would probably require someone with a longer history at Trinity to comment about some of the claims within the book.

Thanks for your open attitude though and participation here.

So, I got the book today and have read through Chpater Six. The hotseat chapter is pretty freakin' disturbing, I must admit. Ole is not in great physical condition. He is in almost constant pain and frequently bedridden. The first time I met Ole he was wearing only a cheap white T-shirt and a pair of boxer shorts with slippers on his feet, and was walking around with his cane. He looked like an ancient old man. Older than his 68 years. This is the Ole Anthony I know. You gotta realize, I'm almost 20 yrs younger than anybody else who works for the Foundation, and am the youngest Levite. Most of these folks have know each other for a long time and are a tight-knit family, yes. But not as lively as I've heard they once were. My point is, from where I sit, from my point of view, OK, maybe there was weird stuff in the past. And it sounds like there was. But the people involved have learned from their mistakes and have moved on. They'll be the first ones to tell you that some of that stuff was goofy. I've never thought Ole to be very "nice" in the usual sense of the word, but I respect him and never perceived his manner as abusive. I think Ole has probably "mellowed out" considerably with time though. Crass and direct, yes, but not abusive; I've always thought he has a real love for people and is actually all heart. All I'm saying is, these things happened several years ago and are no longer happening now. This all disturbs me and I feel sad that others have been hurt. It's just that this is not my experience, and it was in the distant past, so I'm not all that worried about it. And so this stuff about how I'm in a cult doesn't really bother me too much, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. I hardly feel as if I'm in a "cult" or in any way abused here. In fact, I like it here and plan on being here indefinitely. I feel as if I am providing a reasonable service for the Body of Christ. I don't consider Ole to be my “covering” or any of that. Ole to me is a grumpy but kind old man who every day shares his perspective on the Scriptures with us and is the President of the entity known as the Trinity Foundation. I am fulfilled in my work in knowing that I have made a contribution. That's all. In love,
B

zeusor, why do you feel compelled to repeat how old,sick and bedridden Ole is? No one I think has accused anyone of beating members up physically, just mentally,emotionally and spiritually. Are you saying the response to this abusive behavior is to say, " Well, we are not doing it anymore!"
What about restitution? The next time I get stopped for speeding I'll try the I'm not doing it now strategy with the officer.

You are right. I feel unqualified to speak about things that may or may not have happened in the past in TF. All I want you to know is, being abused or manipulated is just not my experience here at all. Nor the experience of lots of people I know. Everybody knows that Ole can be a jerk and when he was younger and healthier...well, like I said, I reckon he's mellowed considerably over time. But the Ole she describes, like some kind of Jim Jones wannabe guy, is not the Ole I know, nor am I scared of his "minions". I just want you to know that that is not the TF I know. A statement from a member of longer standing than myself will be put out soon. I mean, the stuff she descibes in the book mostly happened 20-odd years ago.

Bit of a "straw man" argument there, Zueszor. The main action of the book is focused on the events that caused us to leave the foundation, and that all happened in 2000. You're working this hot seat angle pretty hard, but that is only one chapter in the book. I guess you don't want to address all the other questions the book raises.

I do not doubt your experience is what you say it is, but, my wife's book tells [i:286f5c2be8]our[/i:286f5c2be8] story in a way that is both honest and heartfelt. I do not think you are in a position to tell us what our experience was, either.

By no means, my friend. And I've only read up to chapter 7. It's just that it offends me in a way when somebody tels me that I'm in a cult. Pardon me if I wrote with a bit of an attitude. Irie-I,
B

Irie-I?

Indeed, Jay. Zeus is my screen name and I've been a part of this community and an employee of the Foundation for approxamately three months. I finished the book today. I'm here to tell ya man, the Trinity Foundation that Wendy describes and the the Trinity Foundation I know are two different entities altogether. Like she's talking about something I have not seen. The hotseat chapter I found particularly disturbung; that's like performing surgery on somebody with a knife, fork, and spoon. That is freaky and I can surely see how people got injured. Some of the jargon, teachings, texts used, and things she describes about TF life I simply have not heard not encountered in my three months of full-time service here though. This all makes me sad and frankly confused as to my own standing. I am not scared now of Ole or anything like he's some Svengali type. No way. Ole is, one must admit to anyone who knows him, a man who speaks with conviction, and speaks things that if you take seriously will convict you in your heart, but like I've said I don't see Ole's teachings being more or less a threat to my individual identity or freedom of thought than what, say Jesus or the apostle Paul taught. As far as the mind being the anti-Christ...yeah, I must admit that I still don't get that one, how we can't learn about or understand things in the world, except through the mind...but then it lies to you anyway, so why listen to Ole? He says things that I find very thought-provoking, yet at the same time he emphasizes the importance of not depending on, or even trusting, the mind and senses. Once he started talking about the difference between "mind" and "consciousness" but didn't go very deeply into it and I didn't stop him to ask more about it. Now I wish I had...point of it all is that I do not, upon what I think is real, honest anaylisis on my part, feel as if I have been abused in any way so far, nor as if Ole or anybody else was trying to manipulate or somehow mentally kidnap me into being their puppet in some kind of fantasy world or something. No way. Yes, I can see how Ole in his younger days would have been harsher than I know him to be. Even a real a**hole. The Ole I see and speak with every day is not the guy I read about in the book...the Ole I know is a grumpy but good-hearted older man. Not that I am defending him for being a jerk in the past, it's just that I wasnt't there and some of those anecdotes are totally foreign to my experience here. Gee, in a way I wish I was in a REAL cult, it'd be so much easier. Just kidding.
The things about their marraige I know nothing about. That is between you and Ole as far as I am concerned. It bothers me that there was stupid s**t going on in the past and especially that people got hurt. This news frankly comes as a real shock and I would like to see reconciliation, healing, and forgiveness here more than anybody.
I wasn't there. These are nice people on my experience, not weirder than anybody else out there, and I feel at home and blessed to be a part of this body. So I was shocked to find out that I am in a cult. What do I do with this new knowledge? What does that have to do with me and my walk and my association with Trinity foundation? Gee, I guess that if you really were in a cult you wouldn't know it anyway, and furthermore my mind is the Antichrist and therefore not to be trusted, so which the hell way do I turn? That kind of talk is all a bunch of gobbledeegook to me, anyway. I don't worry about what you may say about whether I am in a cult or abusive group, I don't believe that that is the case and so "let go and let God". My spirit grieves for the ones who were hurt and like I said that news came as a real shock to my system. I want to see things get better too. So what do I do now? IT IS FINISHED.

My wife was the pen for dozens of former members of the Trinity Foundation. Although [i:dc12faeb3f]I Can’t Hear God Anymore[/i:dc12faeb3f] was her story of her experience at TF, she included numerous quotes from other former members and incorporated their experiences in the book. I don’t think you can dismiss the book by saying it was just her experience.

You might want to go back and read in chapter three about her initial impressions of TF. Wendy thought she had found Shangri La. We all go through a “honeymoon phase.”

All cults use some type of thought stopping technique. “It is finished” is a phrase I heard over and over while I was at Trinity Foundation and when you used it, I realized what a powerful tool that little phrase is, as is the teaching on “the mind is the antichrist.” Actually, anyone reading this can look at your post and see the heartfelt struggle of a bright and intellectually honest young person trying to incorporate all this new information that is suddenly truncated by the thought-stopping phrase, “It is finished.”

In reading your response to the book, I am struck with the realization that no one can tell us certain things, we have to discover them for ourselves. I just pray that you don’t wake up ten or twenty years from now and think, “what have I done with the best years of my life?” After I left Trinity Foundation after being there twenty years I had to grieve the poor investment of so much of my time. I have since earned a master’s degree in counseling, completed my internship, and now am a fully licensed professional counselor. Wendy and I hope to open a counseling center for people who have experienced spiritual abuse, so I am finding a way to glean something positive from what turn out to be a negative experience.

I am going out of town for a few days, so if you post anything else I am not likely to see it until Sunday.

Zeusor,
I appreciate your openness about your 3 month association with T.F.
Once you truly believe that your mind is the anti-christ then you will just have to trust the group. Of course their minds are the anti-christ too so I don't know how that will work out for you."He says things that I find very thought-provoking, yet at the same time he emphasizes the importance of not depending on, or even trusting, the mind and senses."This is how otherwise intellegent people who trusted Ole's mind and senses walked on burning hot coals and received second and third degree burns.(And then lied to the doctor about what happened by saying it was an accident.) Yeah I guess you could say he has mellowed since then. By the way, the elders knew beforehand what was going to happen but said nothing in advance to the laity(I guess they did not want to trust their own anti-christ minds). We were marched out into a field and watched as one of your fellow levites(yes he is still at Trinity) lit ten bags of charcoal that were pressed closely together. Ole volunteered a levite to be the first to walk(so we would not think he could walk on fire because of his own abilities), he did and was burned. He stepped into a trench of water put there just in case, good thing too or the burns would have been much more severe.If he would have said something maybe others wouldn't have been as hurt, but he didn't and they were. Others marched onto the burning coals. Finally, Ole stopped this faith building episode. Of course no one else had the courage to stop Ole's little experiment and risk a hot seat for trusting themselves and not "the body" as the liked to refer to the group.None of us who were trusting our anti-christ senses and minds that night were burned physically. Though my feet weren't burned it still effects me and not well to this very day. Please don't let go and let God. He gave you a mind, senses and free will, for God's and your sake please use them! I hope this was thought-provoking too.