That is nucking futs!

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zeuszor
So, if he's a bad guy, and he KNOWS that he's a bad guy, and even TELLS PEOPLE that he's a bad guy, why are some people so captivated by him?

He is an interesing guy. I think he sort of has that "bad boy" thing working for him.

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Like, do you think he's trying to redeem himself somehow by giving his life to his so-called ministry?

Of course.

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If he's an intrinsically evil man who wants to be good somehow, how's he to be faulted for that, you know?

I don't fault him for that. I have never portrayed Ole as being evil, Satanic, or anything like that. That is not what I mean when I say that he has a personality disorder. I do think he is very flawed, he is not qualified to be the leader of a church, and he has created a community that is toxically unhealthy. Part of the reason this has happened is that Ole is outside of any real accountability structure, like he would have if he were part of a denomination.

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How do WE know what God is up to in all of this?

We don't. I am sure God has used Ole and Trinity for some things that are good. I just know that it is an unhealthy place that has also hurt a lot of people, and they do not want to take an honest look at the things they have done that are wrong.

To counselor 47, Bingo!

To Zeusor, you have a way with words :)

cultaware

Thanks cultaware.
So do you think that Ole is truthful when he describes his 1972 salvation experience? Do you think something really happened? What about you, C47?

Sure, something happened--although with Ole's tendency to exaggerate and play loose with the truth it is hard at this point to know exactly what. Nevertheless, the gifts and calling of God are given without repentence. God was at work on Ole just as He is at work on every man. Where Ole went wrong, IMHO, was that once he had his experience with God he did not go and be discipled somewhere. He started discipling other people without ever having been discipled himself. He never submitted to any accountability structure that he did not control.

I imagine it was difficult for Ole with his extraordinary intelligence to find somebody or something to submit to, because he would tend to think, "This guy is an idiot" about most of the Christian leaders he encountered. Frankly, he was probably right most of the time. Nevertheless, if he felt a vocation to go into the ministry he should have gone to seminary, which would have had the effect of taking his remarkable intellect and disciplining it, giving him some structure. He could have made some significant contributions if he had funneled his talents into a rigorous scholarship. Instead, he chose to go his own way and be a Lone Ranger.

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I am sure God has used Ole and Trinity for some things that are good.

Well, Counselor47, God used a jackass too. Yes, God is able to use anyone or anything (even the televanglists!) for His good and His glory. [b:8c30109374]But, [/b:8c30109374] and this is a [b:8c30109374]but[/b:8c30109374] with a capital [b:8c30109374]B[/b:8c30109374], just because God can and does use people does not mean they are not evil or that they are necessarily believers. Ole can yak all day about his spiritual experiences and his "conversion," and what is wrong with other ministers and the church at large, but the fruit of the Spirit is love, peace, joy, gentleness, patience, kindness, etc. Show me that in Ole's Wittenburg Door (and I agree with NathanA, the centerfold picture of W.V. Grant was a horrible thing to do), or in his relationship with his followers.

Still seeking.

I've just read the posts from the past 5 or so days, and based on what I remember about Ole's "testimony" - which I once heard but don't have a link or reference too - which was pure experience and no mention of sin/repentance/Atonement etc., and based on his teachings and practices, I can say with absolute certainty that he is NOT, NOT, NOT saved!
Look at the fruit of his life! So what if he has done some good things! This freak has left a trail of broken lives in his wake.!
What on earth is so hard with calling a spade a spade!
He has NEVER lived a life of repentance, only change when he is confronted.
I'm sorry to come off has harsh, but Jesus said " By their fruits you will know them." Look at Ole's "fruit".

IMO, TFI and it's members will eventually descend into complete debauchery and/or mental illness. The way Ole - through demonic enablement - is able to tear down, reassemble and control people's minds is NOT the work of a Christian, but the work of a sociopath.

Mark

Amen and Amen. Evil to the core, he.

I agree with Mark and the Zeus. Counselor47 always tries to be too fair and balanced. Call it what it is!

Still Seeking

Hell pay for what he's done; if not in this life, then in the next. And when that time comes, may he burn eternally in whatever region of hell he came from.