The moderator is gonna keep an eye on you, Nathan. Now you are starting to be a jerk and piss us all off. Do you realize that? Keep it real, man. How could you possibly so adamantly defend a group of people that YOU HAVE NEVER ACTUALLY MET?

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I am sorry you feel that way. I do not believe it is all Trinity's fault in this, I think you yourself need to come clean, before you expect others to do so.

I do not understand what you think I have to come clean about. If you are uncomfortable publicly accusing me of something on this forum, you are welcome to email me in private. And, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Why can't you say that Trinity needs to come clean before they expect me to do so? We have already established that, based on their grandiose vision of themselves, they are the ones who should be held to a higher standard. I am just an ordinary guy.

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Yet, Doug has made a judgement that Ole and others would not repent if he talked to them.

We are talking to them--what do you think the book is? Yet, I do not see anything approaching repentence from them. Nevertheless, my offer stands: if, as a first step on the road to reconciliation, John (a.k.a. "Grima Wormtongue") or Gary would like to come out and talk to us and a few former members, I would be open to that. At least we could begin a dialogue.

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NathanA

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The overall result of reading the book is that it has significantly deepened my concern that Ole has had far more control than any one man should have. While Ole struck me as a dominating personality, it seems even more clear that he has had too much control over many areas of TFI's culture. In fact he seems to be the creator of it. This troubled me from the beginning. This suspicion has now fully surfaced.

Nathan, you posted this a while back. Are you aware of how much you vacillate?

Good question. If you note in my previous post I actually mentioned that I thought I would have to forget Trinity because they have seemed to be doing people some real harm. I really have been through the experience of some disappointment there. I concede that Doug, and some ex-members have some valuable things to say to Trinity.

Nathan, leave it at that. This is probably the best thing you have said.

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Yet, Doug has made a judgement that Ole and others would not repent if he talked to them.

Also, I know Ole and the others based on 20+ years experience. You, my friend, do not have a clue.

NathanN,
Now you are acting as as Ole's bully against people you've never met. How sad is that? What kind of church is that?
cultaware

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seeking

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NathanA

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The overall result of reading the book is that it has significantly deepened my concern that Ole has had far more control than any one man should have. While Ole struck me as a dominating personality, it seems even more clear that he has had too much control over many areas of TFI's culture. In fact he seems to be the creator of it. This troubled me from the beginning. This suspicion has now fully surfaced.

Nathan, you posted this a while back. Are you aware of how much you vacillate?

Good question. If you note in my previous post I actually mentioned that I thought I would have to forget Trinity because they have seemed to be doing people some real harm. I really have been through the experience of some disappointment there. I concede that Doug, and some ex-members have some valuable things to say to Trinity.

Nathan, leave it at that. This is probably the best thing you have said.

Go away, Nathan, please.

It is possible that I have been mislead by TFI and just do not see it at this point. I sincerely believe the things I am saying. Those of you with faith can pray that I may come to understand your position. I have prayed that I would too if and where you are right. At this point I really am not inclined to believe TFI is the mostly evil force you say it is. Maybe I am too afraid of being wrong, maybe I am proud. Maybe I am just decieved. However, the manner in which you speak of TFI appears strikingly like the fruit of fear and the desire to follow one's own path above God's.(which I realize cannot be equated with TFI's path) I would strongly recommend that anyone swayed by the Duncans go confront Trinity with those things, and to bluntly ask them the tough questions. Any cults I have delt with soon become intolerant of such questions or dodge them, that is simply not the case in my experience with Trinity. Put everything to the test, do not speak too quickly, seek the truth for what it is alone, and ask for wisdom from heaven.( if you believe in heaven)

How will we see what really is in these situations? Is that not the whole reason for this forum? What if there is a case where something truly supernatural is at work? Would we see it or just write it off? What if we spiritualize an issue just to serve our own selfishishness? What if we refuse to see harsh inhumane abuse because we are too afraid to see our bubbles get popped? Can we really ever hope to arrive at true knowledge and enlightenment, and if so, how? Are our own powers of reason really good enough?

So amidst all the noise and voices in the world, how can one person come to believe he sees even a glimpse of reality?

And what if we get involved with such a place and at some point realize, "I Can't Hear God Anymore."

[b:d06f2043be]That was our experience, Nathan. [/b:d06f2043be]

There are many former members of Trinity Foundation who because of their experience and time there, are no longer professing believers. When Wendy was interviewing ex-members she was told over and over things like, "I wasn't able to go to church for a decade after I left Trinity Foundation," and "I don't believe in God anymore," and "Every day that Ole Anthony goes on living is another day that I know God is not real."

[i:d06f2043be]I Can't Hear God Anymore: Life in a Dallas Cult [/i:d06f2043be]is not just Wendy’s and my experience, but dozens of others who left this quasi-Christian cult. I don't know how you can ignore the testimony of so many people who were actually physically, emotionally, and spiritually involved with Trinity Foundation. Again, my friend, you are only linked to them by cyberspace. How many people have found their true love on the internet only to discover that they have been deceived, lied to, and [b:d06f2043be]Had.[/b:d06f2043be]

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If anyone at Trinity has honest concerns about anything in the book they are welcome to email me. I have never cut off conversation with them in the way that they have with me. As for you, Nathan, I truly hope you are able to find the things you are searching for. However, if what you are searching for is an honest community of true believers who are trying to live out the call of the Gospel, you can probably do better than Trinity Foundation.

Why not find some nice little local assembly of believers to get plugged into? Do you go to a church in your area? I agree with the above. You can do better than TFI. Much better. Quit playing games, quit attacking the messenger instead of receiving the message. Think for yourself.

NathanA,
I have to agree with Zeuszor. Find a local church and lay your life down there. Even if we are wrong about some things, you have acknowledged that we are also right about some things. If you say that TFI is the only place for you, you sound like a cult member. Cults love to be exclusive. Many people who want to be involved in exclusive groups probably end up hopping from cult ot cult. I have seen ex-members of TFI do just that.I would not be surprised to hear that you have dabbled in other cults. TFI has no corner on the truth.
cultaware