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Re: Shunyamurti aka Robert Shubow of Sat Yoga Institute
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: January 04, 2020 08:48AM

To learn more about the hazards of eliciting dependency in disciples, read what psychologist Alexandra Stein has written about "insecure connection".

Do a search of this message board.

Put Alexandra Stein into the search slot, select Exact Phrase the select All Dates.

Learning and healing cannot take place in the context of an insecure relationship.

This negates any argument that abuse/ crazy wisdom have a legitimate teaching function.

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Re: Shunyamurti aka Robert Shubow of Sat Yoga Institute
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: January 04, 2020 03:26PM

Thanks a lot, Garuna, for letting us know what goes on behind the scenes at the Sat Yoga ashram. It's much worse than I thought!

Kudos for sharing your experience; this is what people need to know if they consider joining Shunya.

Many of the things you mention, like the far-reaching control over students' lives and the pressure to cut family ties, I've also heard about Brahma Kumaris. Do his students know that Shunya was a member of Brahma Kumaris? And do they ever criticize or question the validity of Shunya and his teachings (and his doomsday prophecy) when talking among themselves?

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Re: Shunyamurti aka Robert Shubow of Sat Yoga Institute
Posted by: garuna ()
Date: January 05, 2020 03:54AM

His students are discouraged from talking among themselves at all, or only for practical day to day things. Their life should be about their meditation, their function in the community and the guru that's it. They are conditioned to believe that their own criticism or questions are intrinsically invalid because they are under the influence of their ego.

Some people are aware he was in the Brahma Kumaris but he is believed and regarded by the people there as completely ultimate. Therefore his past doesn't matter because he has transcended his past and everything else. There is absolutely zero criticism or questioning of Shunyamurti's behavior or teachings in any way by anyone. This is completely taboo and if someone would dare to do that he would be regarded as completely retarded and lost in ego and ignorant.

Shunya is very skilled to put his followers on a pedestal individually and then keep some psychological pressure on them so that they "behave". This includes no questioning him, his authority, his spiritual superiority, etc... When they fail to "behave" he puts them down and they will strive to be brought back on the pedestal. This is a classic narcissistic control mechanism. It then gets incorporated in the background atmosphere of the place and becomes completely normal. They are all like children begging for the love and approval of the father.

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Re: Shunyamurti aka Robert Shubow of Sat Yoga Institute
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: January 05, 2020 06:50AM

Quote
garuna
Shunya is very skilled to put his followers on a pedestal individually and then keep some psychological pressure on them so that they "behave". This includes no questioning him, his authority, his spiritual superiority, etc... When they fail to "behave" he puts them down and they will strive to be brought back on the pedestal. This is a classic narcissistic control mechanism.

That's exactly what I experienced in a cult-like group I was in. I agree, from what you describe it sounds very much like Shunyamurti is a dangerous pathologic narcissist.

How fortunate that you were able to see through his tactics instead of getting brainwashed!

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garuna
I believe warnings about Robert Shubow should circulate wildly.

Agreed! Your posts here are a good start. They will turn up in Google searches and may well open some people's eyes about Shunya.

Was it Shunya's YouTube videos that drew you in, initially? That's how it seems to go with many cults nowadays; they use YouTube as an effective (and free) recruitment tool. Part of me really wanted to go to Shunya's ashram when I first saw his videos; it's amazing how easily we can be influenced just by watching a video of someone talking...

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Re: Shunyamurti aka Robert Shubow of Sat Yoga Institute
Posted by: garuna ()
Date: January 08, 2020 09:44AM

Actually I didn't feel so resonant with Shunya from watching him on Youtube. BUT, I wanted to move to Costa Rica (which I did) and his place was looking great and I am myself very close in my heart to Ramana Maharshi (which he pretends to be too but its a pretense). This is why I went to that place first and gave it a honest and sincere chance to be called home.

Since 2015 I have met or talked to more than ten people who have been under the influence of Shunyamurti and have left him. They all describe the same manipulation tactics : being flattered in the beggining, making them feel understood but then subtle ways to scare about leaving him, to demand total and unconditional devotion to him, to cut ties with everything else, to lose all self-autonomy and trust in self. He is using : fear, guilt and shame. These are the main tools of Shunyamurti to play with the threads of his puppet followers using his very deep psychological understanding. If you have guilt, fear or shame issues, and if you are potentially useful for his vision, he will use these to try to make a puppet slave out of you to serve his vision without self autonomy, freedom while believing that you are understanding yourself better and growing spiritually. It actually might be true that you start understanding yourself better from all the psycho work that you do, but it remains a mental understanding that is not diving deep in the sensations and energies behind the traumas. Therefore the progress remains at the intellectual level and he maintains the control over your wounds and shadows.

When I left I wrote an essay about what I had seen and what had happened to me there. I shared about the lies that he used, false accusations, guilt trip attempts by email and everything else. I have sent this writing to almost the whole community there to try to wake them up. Only two out of twenty people realised the truth behind what I was saying and left him. The others remained completely entrapped in their image about him and that place.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2020 09:46AM by garuna.

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Re: Shunyamurti aka Robert Shubow of Sat Yoga Institute
Posted by: zizlz ()
Date: January 09, 2020 04:37AM

Quote
garuna
He is using : fear, guilt and shame. These are the main tools of Shunyamurti to play with the threads of his puppet followers using his very deep psychological understanding.

It's a shame that he abuses his skillset for psychological manipulation. Come to think of it, his skillset is an ideal one for a cult leader: years of first-hand experience of Brahma Kumaris's mind control tactics, a doctorate in psychology, and a training in hypnosis.


Quote
garuna
When I left I wrote an essay about what I had seen and what had happened to me there. I shared about the lies that he used, false accusations, guilt trip attempts by email and everything else. I have sent this writing to almost the whole community there to try to wake them up. Only two out of twenty people realised the truth behind what I was saying and left him. The others remained completely entrapped in their image about him and that place.

That was a very good thing to do, and a 10% success rate is more than I would have expected. Would you be willing to share that essay here?

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Re: Shunyamurti aka Robert Shubow of Sat Yoga Institute
Posted by: facet ()
Date: January 09, 2020 06:48PM

Thank you for sharing your valuable experience Garuna. Thank you.

I think it takes a lot of courage to do what you have done and write to everyone at the ashram, you did something wonderful for everyone. Although it could take time, your essay will always be something for others to refer to if and when they come to a point where things do not add up. I am thankful for this part of our human nature.


> People are sacrificing their life, their careers
> and family ties for him and for building his
> "arch”

This is what I was prepared to do, I felt it would be the only place in the world that I would be able to live with like minded people and to (naively) effect the planet positively. I am glad that I didn’t manage to get there in the end. I would have been a heartbroken leaver.

I sincerely hope that everyone comes out of it, shunyamurti included.

I see that something that all of these people have in common, it is the misuse of psychology. I have not put much thought into if it is fair, though it is a shame that there is no board of dismissal for such persons who saw this as a power to misuse.

Corboy, thank you for the search terms I had a little look and will read more today.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2020 06:50PM by facet.

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Re: Shunyamurti aka Robert Shubow of Sat Yoga Institute
Posted by: facet ()
Date: January 09, 2020 07:00PM

> It's a shame that he abuses his skillset for
> psychological manipulation. Come to think of it,
> his skillset is an ideal one for a cult leader:
> years of first-hand experience of Brahma Kumaris's
> mind control tactics, a doctorate in psychology,
> and a training in hypnosis.

Zizlz, it is such a shame agreed. According to the link which states that he helped re write the core BK material, it says that he was a lawyer before Brahma Kumaris.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2020 07:05PM by facet.

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Re: Shunyamurti aka Robert Shubow of Sat Yoga Institute
Posted by: facet ()
Date: January 11, 2020 11:54PM

I have to check myself on my last post, I had completely bypassed the fact that Shunyamurti is spotted as a narcissist.

In this case he likely won’t come out of anything, only continue to get those unmet needs met in not so great ways.

It is so disappointing.

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Re: Shunyamurti aka Robert Shubow of Sat Yoga Institute
Posted by: sffs ()
Date: January 30, 2020 05:03AM

To all who may feel a bit let down or disappointed by the behaviour and/or actions of their spiritual teachers, here is the title (plus link) of an essay with valuable information that may help to bring some clarity about this phenomenon:

“Why There Are No Perfect Teachers
Essay by Jerry Freeman “
link: [www.spiritual-integrity.org]

Some Quotes from the essay:
*****************************
“Yes, there are enlightened teachers, but there are no perfect teachers. Contradictory though it may seem, enlightenment does not confer perfection.
This is hard to take. When seekers of Truth discover the truth about teachers, it can shake them. It can leave them discouraged, angry, cynical. They’ve been sold a bill of goods, it seems, and there will be hell to pay. The reality does not match the expectation.“
.
.
“The sense of a separate self dissolves. But still there remains operating somewhere inside that great Unity a little “me,” a sense of individual identity. Now however, it is abstract, and it is no longer experienced to be one’s center of being. It may seem to be almost nothing, just a lingering fragrance so insubstantial it’s hardly there at all. That is why it’s called “leshavidya.”
Lesha:  A small bit or portion, a particle, an atom, a very small quantity.
Avidya:  Ignorance
Leshavidya: The faint remains of ignorance
Leshavidya maintains just enough of the illusion of individuality to allow an enlightened human life to continue.“
.
.
“The important thing to understand is, we are all human. We all have some matters still to be attended to, some issues still unresolved. All of us do, including some of the greatest teachers who have ever graced this Earth. That is necessarily so; it is the definition of leshavidya.
Knowing this can protect us from getting carried away. It can protect us from becoming disappointed, angry, cynical. Teachers are human. If we understand that fact going in, from each teacher we encounter we can take whatever is helpful, whatever is valuable, and we can set aside whatever is not.
If what is not helpful outweighs what is helpful and valuable, we can move on from that teacher. And we can do it without becoming disillusioned, because we have understood that by its very nature enlightenment does not confer perfection.“
**********************************

Hope the information in the essay will be of some use for you - as it definitely was for me!
I remain, nevertheless, very grateful for the work and teachings of Shunyamurti.

Thank you all for your openness and for your sincere posts and best wishes for further growth.

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