facet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It’s probably going to be plenty of people’s cup
> of tea still and I accept that. Sheesh. I always
> wish it would be different !


Yeah, I feel the same way... I'm starting to think it's part of the cosmic joke that every time we seek wisdom externally instead of internally, we get hoodwinked.

I remember when I was very young, when I had only just learned to ask questions, I asked my parents if there exists a man who knows everything. I even remember what I imagined that man to look like. He looked very kind and intelligent, with long gray hair and a gray beard. Kind of like Shunya :-)

I listened to the Christmas clip for the ‘they say that’, maybe it’s another tradition again with the belief, it might have been where Jehovah’s Witness picked up theirs too.

The last thing I’d like to do is be unwelcoming of various beliefs, it’s just that if it’s harmful when it claims to be a service of humanity, someone has to say something.

It’s so sweet how you ask your parents about the man who knows everything, and agree that we see this wisdom in the elder persons grey or white hair it’s very symbolic isn’t it? I think you did the best thing to ask. I agree though, all of our answers are within. It’s a great place to be thanks for sharing that, and thank you for picking out bits of the clips, all bits I missed!

I didn’t ask my parents about this, though I dedicated myself to find out at a young age, I think 10 to read the entire bible and find what’s going on, I was at a Sunday School so I was being told things and I think it’s my nature to just check it out before getting in any comfy seats about things.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2019 07:17AM by facet.

brahmakumaris.info

This link leads to an informational website with upfront explanations of BK beliefs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2019 11:49PM by facet.

Thanks for that link.

I rewatched a bit of the Batgap interview. When Shunya talks about joining an ashram at Mount Abu (from 20:03 on, [youtu.be]), he must be talking about the Brahma Kumaris ashram at Mount Abu. He probably avoids mentioning the BK name due to their notorious reputation. Se says nothing negative about them, other than that they couldn't help some people who needed psychotherapy, so he became a therapist himself and eventually outgrew the ashram.

I found a thread on this forum about BK with some interesting info: [forum.culteducation.com]

Quote

The BKWSU has taught since it beginning that present day that all life on earth and humanity must be destroyed in a series of events it calls "Destruction". This is required to "purify" the world of vice. The core Brahma Kumari teachings claim that the external destruction of the world will come about by their inspiration and efforts. Specifically, it has been said that this means they will give the scientists courage to release the nuclear weapons that will destroy civilization and that Destruction emanates from their efforts.

These include Nuclear War, natural disasters and civil war. All other continents except for India are to sink below the oceans except for islands where present day Brahma Kumari centers are located. India is to be the scene of a bloodbath after which all bodies are washed away into the ocean by floods.

Following Destruction, an army of special individuals including scientists and Brahma Kumaris will rebuild civilization to its highest, high technology Golden Age in less than 30 years. Brahma Kumari adherents, reborn as "deities" will enjoy palaces of gold and diamonds, nuclear power flying machines and live to be 150 years old.

So it's clear where Shunya got the idea of a coming nuclear apocalypse.

I read elsewhere that BK already picked a date for the apocalypse several times, but each time the world just went on existing, to their chagrin probably—not only because of the damage to their reputation for being wrong, but also because they believe that the time after the apocalypse will be heaven on Earth for the BK members, because then the Earth will have been cleansed of all non-BK people.

In the quote above, I bolded the most scary part, where it says that BK not only predicts the apocalypse but wants it to happen, and even hopes to help make it happen.

In the batgap interview, Shunya talks about the apocalypse in a cheerful manner. There's no indication that Shunya has distanced himself from BK's beliefs, though he probably adapted them a bit because I haven't heard him say anything about BK members surviving the apocalypse. But he may still share BK's cheerful anticipation of the apocalypse.

Rick Archer does a good job as an interviewer because he asks Shunya how he knows that the apocalypse is coming soon (at 01:40 [youtu.be]). Shunya doesn't mention the "they" whom he referred to in the other video as being the source of his knowledge. He mentions all kinds of environmental and societal threats, none of which justify the prediction of a nuclear war happening soon.

> I rewatched a bit of the Batgap interview. When
> Shunya talks about joining an ashram at Mount Abu
> (from 20:03 on,
> [youtu.be]), he must be
> talking about the Brahma Kumaris ashram at Mount
> Abu. He probably avoids mentioning the BK name due
> to their notorious reputation. Se says nothing
> negative about them, other than that they couldn't
> help some people who needed psychotherapy, so he
> became a therapist himself and eventually outgrew
> the ashram.

Ok, thanks for this and I’ll re watch again. He may not also mention due to the beliefs instilled too, or potential backlashes. Even law, I have read around that BK’s are happy to use the law to manipulate their benefit.

>
> I found a thread on this forum about BK with some
> interesting info:
> [forum.culteducation.com]
>
>

Quote

The BKWSU has taught since it beginning
> that present day that all life on earth and
> humanity must be destroyed in a series of events
> it calls "Destruction". This is required to
> "purify" the world of vice. The core Brahma
> Kumari teachings claim that the external
> destruction of the world will come about by their
> inspiration and efforts. Specifically, it has been
> said that this means they will give the scientists
> courage to release the nuclear weapons that will
> destroy civilization and that Destruction emanates
> from their efforts.
>
> These include Nuclear War, natural disasters and
> civil war. All other continents except for India
> are to sink below the oceans except for islands
> where present day Brahma Kumari centers are
> located. India is to be the scene of a bloodbath
> after which all bodies are washed away into the
> ocean by floods.
>
> Following Destruction, an army of special
> individuals including scientists and Brahma
> Kumaris will rebuild civilization to its highest,
> high technology Golden Age in less than 30 years.
> Brahma Kumari adherents, reborn as "deities" will
> enjoy palaces of gold and diamonds, nuclear power
> flying machines and live to be 150 years
> old.

>
> So it's clear where Shunya got the idea of a
> coming nuclear apocalypse.

It’s basically a suicide mission from how I’m seeing it. Saddening.


> I read elsewhere that BK already picked a date for
> the apocalypse several times, but each time the
> world just went on existing, to their chagrin
> probably—not only because of the damage to their
> reputation for being wrong, but also because they
> believe that the time after the apocalypse will be
> heaven on Earth for the BK members, because then
> the Earth will have been cleansed of all non-BK
> people.
>

Yes that’s right, I have read this previously too. The weblink for Brahma Kumaris info says a bit about this too, and some of what you posted here is similar to what is written there so may be from the same authors.

> In the quote above, I bolded the most scary part,
> where it says that BK not only predicts the
> apocalypse but wants it to happen, and even hopes
> to help make it happen.

Yes it is a scary part, I know that there are terrible things on the planet as we are, but to wish wiping us all out makes me wonder what would happen if BK’s themselves manage to amass enough money to obtain nukes. Maybe that is what they are doing. It would be the surprise moment for all world leaders and people I’m sure, (should any survive) no one would expect a cult to do it.

>
> In the batgap interview, Shunya talks about the
> apocalypse in a cheerful manner. There's no
> indication that Shunya has distanced himself from
> BK's beliefs, though he probably adapted them a
> bit because I haven't heard him say anything about
> BK members surviving the apocalypse. But he may
> still share BK's cheerful anticipation of the
> apocalypse.

He may, though through the many instances I came across it in his videos through following them, he seems to go into fear on most occasions unless of course it is part of the act for the story / talk he’s giving.
>
> Rick Archer does a good job as an interviewer

He does! I thought he dealt especially well with the spot at the beginning where Shunya decides to do some Om’s and invocation. I felt that an awkward spot but that’s me !

He mentions all kinds of environmental
> and societal threats, none of which justify the
> prediction of a nuclear war happening

This says a lot. Thank you for pointing it I’ll also re watch, it helps greatly.

Check this out...


‘Historical Revision
Has the BKWSU re-written its history?

Yes, extensively and regularly in numerous hagiographic histories and biographies. This has been hidden from followers.

Please see our BKWSU History forum for details and discussion. Evidence clearly shows where the current leadership have colluded in passing on a falsified version of the organization's development.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Has the BKWSU re-written its philosophy?

Yes. Extensively. This, and its process of development, has been hidden from followers.

The BKWSU largely claims that its philosophy is derived from mediumistic channelled messages they believe are God speaking directly to them. During its history, especially in the early years, it used a number of different mediums some of which, such as the "Golden Circle", left the organization and are no longer officially discussed or acknowledged.’

It could explain the ‘they’ Shunya refers to, and then check this out:

Link

Ah.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2019 03:11AM by facet.

facet Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The BKWSU largely claims that its philosophy is
> derived from mediumistic channelled messages they
> believe are God speaking directly to them. During
> its history, especially in the early years, it
> used a number of different mediums some of which,
> such as the "Golden Circle", left the organization
> and are no longer officially discussed or
> acknowledged.’
>
> It could explain the ‘they’ Shunya refers to,

I think you're right.

In the Christmas satsang, Shunya says this about the apocalypse:
(at 44:03 [youtu.be] )

Quote

They say only eight make it totally at the end, who will actually be able to maintain that perfection of consciousness that
doesn't fall any longer. And 108 are able to maintain it sufficiently to to be able to to manifest the transition without
suffering and to be able to bring the energy field into Sat Yuga.

This matches with three different Brahma Kumaris writings I found:

From [www.brahma-kumaris.com]

Quote

Bharat will be Heaven, the new world is to begin shortly. But how small small things will contribute to this World Transformation, let us know the vision that we, Brahma Kumar and Kumaris have for the near future before God's complete revelation has to happen before all his children. Everyone will get the message and will have all help given so that even the last comer have a chance to be one among 108 beads of Souls. This will be possible as the following visions come into light.

From [www.bkdrluhar.com]

Quote

The Rudraksha mala is joined by a flower called the tassel as seen in the picture. The tassel represents God the supreme soul.
First there are two pairs each of double beads seated on either side of the tassel or God. These eight souls represent the souls
who made intense self-effort to imbibe and inculcate the spiritual knowledge as imparted by God Shiva on his descent and were
able to pass with honours. In other words the eight souls do not have to appear in front of Dharamraj and were known as the
victorious jewels or the right hand of Shiva. These eight are threaded together with the tassel and considered the smallest but
most powerful of all Rudraksha Malas and it is called the auspicious Vijayanti mala.(SM 23.3.78: Imtihaan bahut badaa bhaari
hai. Aath(8) vijaymala ke daanein bante hai :The exam is very difficult. Eight(8) become beads of the Vijaymala) In murlis, many
times only one double- bead is mentioned where the tassel is knotted and this is to highlight the souls of Brahma and Saraswati
as the two main actors and the ones closest to God Shiva in the Rudra Mala.
Then the next 100 souls who passed fully but not with complete honours, but very close behind the first eight are threaded
equally (50 each) on either side of the two pairs of double beads. The Rudra rosary now has a total of 108 beads, 54 each on
either side of the tassel. These 108 souls are known as the main souls who assisted God Shiva in the transformation of the old
iron age into the golden age of satyug.

From [www.bkdrluhar.com]

Quote

Should we have the completion in the year 1999? All the elements are ready and waiting for us to clap our hands and signal them. Have you become as double­light as angels? Are at least one hundred and eight of you constantly victorious? Have you passed in not having any type of wasteful or negative thoughts, words, acts when in connection and relations with everyone? The burden of anything wasteful or negative stops you from becoming angels for all time. So, Brahma Baba is asking you: Have you become angels who are relieved of this burden? Have you underlined the word “constantly”? When at least one hundred and eight souls constantly experience an angelic life can it be said that they have become equal to father Brahma.

I think it's pretty evident that Shunyamurti's doomsday prophecy is borrowed from Brahma Kumaris.

Wow, I really do not know what to say, that’s it! It is absolutely the same thing. No doubt at all now.

Thank you for doing the research and sharing it here zizlz, it’s such a valuable contribution and it will be here for any others who wish to research too.

Sheesh.

You're welcome, Facet!

Quote
facet
Yes it is a scary part, I know that there are terrible things on the planet as we are, but to wish wiping us all out makes me wonder what would happen if BK’s themselves manage to amass enough money to obtain nukes. Maybe that is what they are doing. It would be the surprise moment for all world leaders and people I’m sure, (should any survive) no one would expect a cult to do it.

Wow, that would be insane! But indeed, not unthinkable.. Would make for a good James Bond plot. I hope the intelligence agencies keep an eye on them!

Yes, definitely insane and yes it would make a great bond film, please no more gurus in bikinis or speedo though :D

The UN apparently supports BK :/. Not a great outlook there. I do sincerely hope that they are monitored, because their wish is mass destructive to humanity.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2019 07:08AM by facet.

I have spent several weeks at Sat Yoga ashram with Shunyamurti and his followers.
At first I was very impressed by the energy of the place and his teachings. Shunyamurti is very intelligent and knows a lot about all kinds of topics (he reads a gigantic amount of books). His words are perfect and he has a deep understand of the spiritual journey and the ego. His followers are crafting beautiful meditation retreats which have the potential to attract many people.

It took me almost two months of deep involvement to realise what is really going on behind the scene.

Robert Shubow (Shunyamurti) is constantly putting fear in people so that they don't leave him. He is manipulating people to cut ties with their family so that he becomes their only authority. He is manipulating people to doubt all their perceptions about themselves and only believe what he says as the ultimate truth. He believes himself to be beyond all critique but he is criticising on a regular basis (other teachers, past members who left in a disguised way, the mother principle, sexuality etc...). He does not accept when is superiority or authority is questioned. He is attached to the dependency of his followers to him and doesn't tolerate when they learn from another teacher. Followers need to ask his permission for everything and he is controlling their life like puppets. He is using his followers for his entertainment, to comment on his spiritual writings, for discussion about movies, for theater play etc. He is carefully keeping his followers in a state of emotional dependency and need of validation and throwing some nice validations when they behave well and frowning upon them when they don't.

Robert Shubow distorts reality to make it fit his grandiose ideas about himself and fully repress his shadows, projecting them on his followers or the external society. I have carefully evaluated his behaviour and have found that it closely matches the characteristics of the pathological narcissist which often becomes a cult leader of some sort.

Robert Shubow has the intelligence, knowledge and psychologcial skills to be a DANGER for others. People are sacrificing their life, their careers and family ties for him and for building his "arch" of apocalypse survival without receiving any compensation or social security (other than a ticket on his arch if they behave well).

I believe warnings about Robert Shubow should circulate wildly.