PY the martial arts teacherMany thanks to anon27 for his comprehensive debunking of PY’s supposed claim of superiority and teaching ability in martial arts (and by extension, Buddhism), in response to a question from me. It is important and beneficial for ex-students’ recovery. Text has been slightly edited to correct typos and maintain anonymity.
In the [CEI] forum you stated that PY failed as a martial arts teacher.
In PY's defence, he constantly brings up the medals his students won in competitions. And he would talk about his travels, his connection to the Wu Style Taichi lineage masters and Internal Arts teacher. So we were led into believe he had a very successful time in martial arts and he left at his peak, because he found out education is the way to go. This is the same for his time as a dance teacher in university.
In your  years with him, what would be a more balanced or accurate portrayal to help us break some of the above programming?
Hi dear karmicwind,
This is a good question!
What we always have to remember is that PY is a master of blending fact and fiction.
Exactly like his current students believe they're getting the secret, real Buddhism, his martial arts students believed they were getting "the real deal". We all spent a lot of time and money on it, so we were invested in making it seem worthwhile, and making him out to be someone special. It served us to big him up.
PY has studied Buddhism, has spent time with HH Penor Rinpoche ... but where is PY's proof of endorsement? Nobody has ever seen it.
It's like a person attending a course but not getting a certificate, then claiming because he was there, he knows it all. It's just not credible, and actually proof he doesn't have that endorsement.
Same with martial arts.
He claims the Lama robes, yet didn't do the required course of study. This is objective fact. I think it's the same with martial arts.
Also to remember, like with the Buddhism, if a student does practice, even under a fake teacher, we will get results.
PY claims those results are down to him.
They are not.
Anyone doing meditation and prayer will advance on the path.
Anyone practicing martial arts will get better at them.
The key point is: in martial arts, none of his students are recognised teachers.
After all this time, and PY's supposed amazing ability and success, there would be a whole series of schools set up. This is what happens with other teachers.
How is PY therefore measuring "success"? What achievements can he point to? None.
Where are all these so-called medal winning students? Why is there NOBODY recognised anywhere that was a student of PY's in either dance of martial arts?
Why doesn't he say where the medals were won? Just "oh yeah, lots of medals". It's like Donald Trump.
I never heard PY taught dance, only that he studied it. Maybe he taught a bit.
From the little I heard, Newcastle Uni basically kicked him off the campus as a martial arts teacher because after a while they realised he was dangerous.
For a long time, when PY "taught at Newcastle Uni", he was in fact just teaching on a patch of grass that happened to be on Uni grounds. He wasn't associated with NU in any way.
He did teach for some time in one of their halls ... but that's a case of him paying them rent every week to use it, it wasn't endorsement or association.
That he gives that impression is another indicator that he's lying about something.
1. I had a very good long term friend who is a student of Master Lam Kam Chuen.
Master Lam worked for Hong Kong (HK) Customs, has done TV series on Chi Kung, and has a very high reputation with proper official people, both in the martial arts world and in the wider world.
Master Lam is from HK, knew PY directly, and knows his reputation back in Hong Kong.
Master Lam was very negative about PY (in the indirect Chinese way, and also surprisingly directly), and this friend of mine told me it was well known in Master Lam's circle that PY left a trail of destroyed students behind him.
This friend and I stopped being friends because he basically thought I was stupid to keep following PY.
Sadly, it took me years to figure out he was right.
You can contact Master Lam to ask about PY - maybe pose as a naif student asking for a reference. You'll see what response you get.
2. When I said he was a failed teacher I meant:
PY couldn't make his living from it, because only few students would stay with him (us brainwashed ones).
Everyone with real interest or experience in Martial Arts left very quickly, often having been attacked by PY, both physically and mentally.
That's why he moved into religion. He needed a better income stream, and a better cover.
Also, that his martial arts students never became really good, even after years and serious dedication.
In the same way that PY sabotages our Buddhist practice by introducing lies and a lot of fear, he sabotaged our martial arts practice. This way, we constantly struggle to advance, which makes it look like PY has achieved amazing things. He makes it 1000 times more difficult than it needs to be, so we all think "wow, if it's this difficult, PY must be amazing".
Do you see what I mean?
3. I've not seen one person achieve anything like PY's claimed level of expertise in Martial Arts.
Even Kunzang's form is pretty shitty for someone who has been dedicated for 25+ years.
PY just doesn't share what he knows, if he does actually know what he claims to know.
This means he is a fake teacher, even if he does know what he claims to know.
Interestingly too, no teacher who does have extraordinary ability in martial arts says they do. They don't advertise it.
PY is the only one to have videos of void power on the web, in fact PY's only claims to ability is based on believing he has "supernormal powers". If we look at him, and his martial arts, without the "supernormal powers" element, suddenly we see he is in fact, very average.
Same with Buddhism - if we take off his robes, what do we see?
An obese bully who acts in a very nasty way to all his students.
4. Look at the comments under the YouTube videos.
All real martial artists say PY is simply ridiculous.
If PY's martial arts powers were real, he could earn millions of $ in Mixed martial arts, or training MMA. He doesn't, and never has.
This is evidence his skills are fake, and that he cannot teach.
He says it's because that doesn't interest him, but that's like me saying "oh yeah, I could be a rock star, but it doesn't interest me". In the real world, that's bullshit. Either be a rock star, or don't talk about it.
He claims he could do anything better than anyone else in Buddhism and martial arts ... but spends his time hidden away in Newscastle, teaching a bunch of zombies, who after many years of being his students are still very poor human beings and who display very little ability of their own.
This just isn't real. If PY could do what he says he can do, he would have a much higher profile, and recognition.
5. Look at these links:
The Chinese perspective on PY's martial arts:
Sample: "Lama Dondrup Dorje, in the above video is ... continuously misrepresenting Chinese culture, and brain-washing Westerners into following nonsense and believing in religiously inspired mythology. None of this Lama Dondrup Dorje expression is real. ... non-Chinese people fall for what Lama Dondrup Dorje is teaching. The people in this video are the victims of a ‘cult’ mentality ... These people are brain-washed to act in a manner that Lama Dondrup Dorje requires ... How crazy all this seems from a genuine Chinese cultural perspective ... Lama Dondrup Dorje and his misled ‘Taijiquan’ students, represent delusion in action, and displays how suitably motivated individuals can throw themselves around a padded floor, if the psycho-physical climate requires it."
Sample: "[Peter Young's video is] an interesting example of an unusual, but by no means 'supernatural' phenomenon. Music hall and vaudeville performers used the same principles back in the late 1800s, often presented as a demonstration of "human magnetism"; modern stage hypnotists and faith healers, likewise."
Sample: "I can tell you an episode that in the gym where I learned became famous: [Peter Young] came to do an internship with us a Chinese teacher and wanted to show how people were flying with his Qi power; so my teacher gave him to try it with an experienced student (30 years of practice) ....
When in front of everyone he could not make him fly as he wanted (he did not move him an inch). Peter Young got very angry ... He tried to find excuses of various kinds, but the truth was clear to everyone ... go very cautious .... very very very ..."
6. The medals were won by a small group of early students, at various events, but these included many of PY's own events!!
I am one of the medal winners. Those medals mean absolutely nothing, they're total bullshit, handed out like sweeties, mainly for just turning up.
Those medal winners also included Michael C. [surname redacted] - do you know who that is? If so, look at him, and see if you can believe he's a successful result of many years of martial arts training.
Some of those early students were also really weird people ... like many of the current students are now. If we met them outside the group, we would stay away from them. Even meeting them within the group, there are very few that I felt I wanted to know. From what you say, I suspect you felt the same. That's another reason we don't have lots of contact details of current and former students.
Real martial arts classes create strong long-term friendships. That's a big part of it.
PY discourages friendships. This is very telling.
7. When any of us students actually got any good at martial arts, PY would drive them away, because we started to beat him!
After a few years, I beat him. It wasn't even that difficult. I was so surprised that I didn't press my advantage, and let him win, because I was embarrassed to beat him. However, it was clear to us both that his skill was not as high as he claimed.
It was soon after that that he said he was abandoning martial arts because he moved into Buddhism as a higher form of practice.
If you take away the hypnosis / Derren Brown type stuff, then PY used to be able to move well, but that's it. I think it was mainly his dance training, and his neurosis-driven focus.
This is one of the big reasons he stopped his students practicing martial arts. They were starting to reach the limits of PY's ability, and he knew if he let them carry on, they'd see him for what he is.
8. Because there is so much bullshit in the martial arts world, all respectable teachers are part of official bodies or are endorsed by other teachers. PY is part of no official body, and endorsed by nobody. This in itself is a very telling thing.
Where is PY's proof of any lineage in Wu style?
If you look at Master Lam's website, there's loads of verifiable information on his lineage AND what his students / disciples are now doing.
PY has none of this - no lineage, and no inheritors. This is very telling.
9. Many of the current students spent years training in martial arts. Then, suddenly, he stopped them. This is either a sign of a very bad teacher ("I'll make you train for years, and pay huge amounts of money, then take it all away and tell you it's all shit for some vague cosmic reason"); or of someone who knows that if the student continued, PY would be exposed as a fake, because the student would reach the limits of PY's ability.
Objectively, it comes down to this:
Many people invested a lot of money and time in PY's martial arts training.
None of them have achieved anything with it.
Therefore it was a bad investment.
Yet, he claims he is one of the most amazing martial arts guys in the world, and one of the best teachers in the world.
Therefore he is a fake.
I hope that helps!
Blog post: [pathgatesurvivors.com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2019 10:22AM by karmicwind.