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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: Rinpochehelpedme ()
Date: June 16, 2018 04:08AM

Hi,

I didn't see anything about suicidal thoughts, so please don't try to taint my character by suggesting I don't have empathy towards anyone who feels hurt. I wrote that I am sorry that some people have had bad experiences as mine was not. I saw something about someone feeling that they were attacked psychically but didnt see the word suicide.

I went to Rinpoche at a time when I felt deeply depressed and he helped me out of that depression.

and yes I left Newcastle at one point feeling like a shitty person. The purpose of a spiritual journey is to wake up right? Well, I needed to see that I was being a shitty person at that time and Rinpoche helped me to do that. I returned to Newcastle again afterwards and felt wonderful.

And I still maintain that if someone wants to go and have a spiritual experience with Rinpoche then they should do it and not be scared off.

Rinpoche NEVER invited me to become a nun, he just said the obvious which was that there is a fast track and a not so fast track. I haven't read what I wrote as I don't have a lot of free time but maybe I wrote it wrong so I apologise.

I have not claimed to be anything in relation to buddhism, I just didn't think it was fair that you are slandering Rinpoche when for some of us he has really helped.

Again, i'm so sorry that others have not had a good experience...Just to note though that if a person is feeling that they are being spiritually attacked, it might just be that their vibrations have risen and they are now more open to other frequencies which means other beings are able to come into their space, but if they are not prepared for this then of course it can be scary and lead to a lot of confusion, fear and paranoia, so it might be worth asking someone spiritual how to close yourself off from what is known as lower dimensional beings. It is more likely that that's what you are feeling attacked from, then a bunch of astral projecting monks and nuns. Hope that helps.

As for the controlling thing, I just haven't seen this myself. What I think that is happening is that he is such a strong character that people don't feel that they can say no to him, however I went to Rinpoche one on one many times and told him how I felt and as I said he never stopped me from leaving and coming back. I have made my own decisions in life and whenever I have felt comfortable to make contact, as I said he has always been there. The reason I have had to leave and come back is that whilst you are there you take in a lot of information! It's a lot to process and I just felt that I needed to go away and let it sink in but it does mean that it has taken me years to learn something that I couldve probably learnt in a year if I had been there a whole year.

As for the Rinpoche thing, well Sifu is a martial arts term and he was mainly teaching buddhism so no point going by a martial arts term.

As for this Abuse thing again, I really dissagree. I wrote about ONE incident in 15 years and you have chosen to repeat that many times.

As I wrote earlier, I was NEVER in Newcastle to try to figure out how advanced Rinpoche was. I was there to learn about Buddhism and how to better myself and that's exactly what he taught me.

I refuse the word abuse. I never felt abused. I was 21 when I met Rinpoche, I was abusing myself and he stopped me, he helped me and now I have a wonderful life.

Damn straight I give myself credit for being strong, but what i'm saying is that he gave me the tools to do that. That is the point of a teacher.

That part about me shitting myself, not literally (!) was at a point when I was self destructing and he snapped me out of it. And the point of me writing that was to show that yes it is possible to have an intense relationship with Rinpoche but that it worked out fine. That man cares about his students and what he's doing and I never felt that I had to worship him btw. I didn't worship him, that is a weird concept to me, but I did feel very appreciative that he gave me the time of day even though the first year I knew him I was actually really disrespectful to him but he didn't give up on me.

You do have a valid point for your own experience with him because it was yours and you were there. Mine is just different and as you said I have not been back in many years. But as I said, I am still able to ask for advice, never felt like I couldn't.

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: Rinpochehelpedme ()
Date: June 16, 2018 04:27AM

Just to add to the dutch guy, that i’m sorry if I come across insensitive, I really don’t mean to. It’s very difficult to articulate on here and i’m not the most skilled writer. I do hope you are ok, and to anyone who is feeling hurt or used, i’m so sorry for you that you have had that experience.

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: anon27 ()
Date: June 16, 2018 12:01PM

Hi,

Again, I understand, and in many ways agree with what you say, but again the context is important to understand when looking at PY’s behaviour.
If it’s OK I’ll just pick out a couple of examples:


“Rinpoche NEVER invited me to become a nun, he just said the obvious which was that there is a fast track and a not so fast track.”

Him getting you to believe there is a fast track and not so fast track WAS his way of inviting you (manipulating you) into becoming a nun.
It’s the sales pitch I’ve seen him use on all his students.
I’m also pretty sure he let you know in many other indirect ways that the option was available to you. I’ve seen him do that too.
This is not Buddhist.
Becoming part of a monastic order in the belief that it’s a fast track to enlightenment is, in all religions with monastic traditions, recognised to be the worst possible reason to do it.
The person who believes this will always be looking to profit from their practice.
You’re on the fast-track, right? You’re owed the big pay off!
Because of this, they will seek to force enlightenment from their practice, and thereby, at some stage, usually very fast, be corrupted. It’s guaranteed.
It also creates a lot of jealousy, and feelings of superiority, along the way.
The bottom line reality is: Giving someone the false belief that they can expect enlightenment “quicker” by being a nun or monk, sets them up to never achieve enlightenment.
Ask around if you don’t believe me.

Furthermore: When you look objectively at PY’s senior students, who are supposedly monks and nuns, would you honestly say they act like seekers who have been on a super effective fast-track program for several years?
When I compare his long-term students with those of a real Lama like Tsultrim Allione, the difference is staggering.

So, how realistic was his statement of “the obvious”?
The way he made you think “the obvious” was obviously true is precisely the way he gets people to not actually think about things.


As for the Rinpoche thing, well Sifu is a martial arts term and he was mainly teaching buddhism so no point going by a martial arts term.

He was given Lamas robes, so why doesn’t he stick with Lama when teaching Buddhism?
The reality is: he allows people to believe they are being respectful, when in fact he knows very well they are disrespecting the wider tradition. This isolates them.
Even you had to justify why you used the term, because we all know he hasn’t earned it. When amongst other Buddhists, even this seemingly small habit will help isolate someone.
Also key question: Why does he feel the need to always upgrade his titles?
I’ve seen him go through many over the years.


As for this Abuse thing again, I really dissagree. I wrote about ONE incident in 15 years and you have chosen to repeat that many times.

You also mentioned him shouting at you several times ... in fact, you witnessed him shouting so often that you said you thought it was “his thing”.

Once a person has scared you enough, they don’t need to go full-on anymore. They just need to raise their voice a bit, and they get total submission.
This is objective fact.

And, there’s the fact he treats everyone like this, shouting at them or being aggressive in other ways, until they break, or leave.
If they stay, then he continues doing it to them, for years.
Can you really believe all his students are in such a bad way that they all need this “cruel to be kind” treatment, for years on end?
And at the same time you can believe Peter Young is an effective teacher?


Damn straight I give myself credit for being strong, but what i'm saying is that he gave me the tools to do that. That is the point of a teacher.

Good.
I think my point is: you would have got better tools elsewhere; and the tools you did get, truly didn’t need the aggression involved.
The aggression was purely there to program you.

You avoided giving your life up to that programming, but many other people have got caught.
They have given up their lives to follow him, and give all their money to him.
Go back and see them to confirm it for youself.


There also remain the key objective questions:
- Why do Palyul and Nyingma refuse to acknowledge him?
- How is it that in a heavily hierarchical structure like Tibetan Buddhism, Peter Young runs several centres, generating serious income, with absolutely zero oversight or input from anyone else at all?
Nobody runs a religion like that.

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: anon27 ()
Date: June 17, 2018 03:25AM

One other very important point to note occurred to me:

"... and yes I left Newcastle at one point feeling like a shitty person. The purpose of a spiritual journey is to wake up right? Well, I needed to see that I was being a shitty person at that time and Rinpoche helped me to do that."

Yes the point of a spiritual journey is to wake up.
It is to wake up to the fact that each of us is amazingly wonderful.

Every religion, philosophy and psychology agree on this.
Buddha says: Every sentient being has Buddha-nature.
Jesus said: The kingdom of heaven is within you.
The psychologists say: Having a high sense of self-worth leads to a happy and fulfilled, personal and social life.
The Buddhists say: Samsara and Nirvana are the same.
The Taoists say: The Way is found within.
The Christians say: Be a vessel for God.


They all agree on this because:
(a) When we value ourselves highly as human beings, we treat ourselves, others and our environment with care.
If you value yourself, you can only bring positivity everywhere.

(b) Only by recognising our essential purity are we able to experience the Divine. This is not a theory. It is a direct instruction.


Said the other way: Only people who feel shit about themselves treat other people in shit ways.


Peter Young's teaching is, as you rightly state, is: Wake up, see how shit you are, and spend the rest of your life doing your best to fix it.

Buddhism is: Wake up, see how wonderful you are, and spend the rest of your life doing your best to manifest that.


Do you see the enormous difference arising from the slight twist he made?

Yes, part of seeing how wonderful we are is what psychologists call "integrating the shadow", accepting our dark parts into the light of consciousness.
But it is done from a position of strength: firm confidence on your own light.

Peter Young teaches you to try to do that from a position of weakness: dropped head-first into the deepest darkest shit hole in your psyche he can find.
He then blames you and shouts at you when you fail.
He then says the only way out ... and in fact a "fast track" way out ... is to devote yourself to him more and more.


"I returned to Newcastle again afterwards and felt wonderful."

You were lucky.
I've seen many people leaving Newcastle feeling like shit because of the way Peter Young treated them, and never recovering from it.
I've seen Peter Young make even more people feel so shit about themselves, that they become utterly dependent on him, and losing their entire lives.

That's why telling people they should try it if they want to is more dangerous than it seems.
You assume they will be strong enough to take his cruelty, and deal with it. That's a big assumption.

You also assume Peter Young has the credentials that authorise him to take on people with serious issues and treat them, or develop and guide seekers along a spiritual path.
Where are these credentials?
Did you ever see anything like a credential?

Would you recommended a friend with a medical condition to someone you have no evidence is a doctor, and who you do know uses unusually aggressive methods?
This is what you are doing here, but I know it didn't seem that way to you when you wrote this.
That's why I admire your honesty.

Do you see how the way he has taught you to approach these things is full of assumed superiority?
It's not your fault. It's the trap he puts in a lot of his teaching.
It goes like this:
You dealt with this cruelty, so anyone else should be able to.
If they find they can't deal with it, then they should be able to just walk away, no problem.
That's you position, right?
What you don't say is the assumption you made: If they do have a problem when walking away, then that's their weakness, and tough on them.

This assumption you made is unrealistic as well as not compassionate.

Despite what Peter Young has you believe, and a few people used to think 100 years ago in Western societies, throwing a person into the deep end is not a good way to teach them how to swim.
It is not good because it is not effective.
That's the concrete reason why Buddhism rejects this approach.
All scientific research on learning agrees with this finding.
On a human level, we also all instinctively know this is true.

A normal person wouldn't throw a child into the deep end of a pool in the name of teaching them how to swim.
Only bullies, and those who don't know how to teach, use this method.
This is objective fact, proven to the nth degree, around the world, in all cultures.

The bottom line objective reality fact is: Real Lamas spend very little time shouting at their students. They've known for over 2000 years that it doesn't work.

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: June 17, 2018 10:35PM

Recovery advice:

Do not isolate. Spend time in groups of people doing ordinary things, groups
where fear does not rule.

You may begin to feel less afraid.

You were harmed in the context of a diseased community.

You lived in a community that was assembled,created by PY, a community of scared people.

Domineering types such as PY is reported to be create groups biased towards fear.

Being in that group of scared people reinforced the fears PY taught to you.

That PY community was an echo chamber, a bubble that magnified any doctrine PY chose to teach you.

In a group like that, you would have spent lots of time with fellow students who talked about PY even when the leader was absent. Your fellow students would have repeated fear inducing stories about astral assault, etc. Your fellow students would have told stories about bad things that happened to anyone who left the group.

Part of recovery is to put yourself in social situations that are not tainted by fear, where people assemble because they choose to do so, not because they are pre selected by a domineering leader such as PY.

Try to spend time and do errands in settings where people are not frightened all the time.

You will no longer be in groups that are echo chaMbers for PY's teachings and the fears of spiritual assault PY taught to you.

PY hides out in communities he has created. Only in those communities does his recipe for fear take hold.



If you can do so, make yourself a regular part of groups (talk with people at your local market. The cafe. The pub. Anything you like. Football.

Why? Because you will no longer be in groups tainted by fear. Your body may begin to calm down. your emotions may settle down.

You will find out that people will not jump away from you in horror. That you are not cursed. You will come to realize there is life and companionship outside
of PY"s diseased group.

Those of you who report being harmed by PY were harmed not only by PY but
you were harmed in the context of a diseased community, a community created
and controlled by PY.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2018 09:18PM by corboy.

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Date: June 19, 2018 12:02PM

Guys,

I am dying. And am completely certain about it! That is what is happening to me.
I am experiencing what is described in the Tibetan DYING PROCESS!

So can we do one thing together please?
Remove this topic. You can keep the material, but i think its best to get this offline.

I know “who is doong this to me”, but i think one of the main important causes is this!

As i explained, im being continuously stalked by PY, and as i think, and nearly sure, also a bunch of his Newcastle nuns and monks.

Anyway, please remove this!
You can store it in a document, but i recommend you not post it again!

Maybe this PY is real after all.
And if that is the case, than you are, like me, creating enormous karma.
Get to know about the *The 5 heinious crimes*.

Please do as i recquest.
Thank you.

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Date: June 19, 2018 12:09PM

[youtu.be]
Im in the first 7 minutes now..

Have felt earth element and water and wind elements dissolve already, and its going very fast from here.

This is an experience i envy ALL sentient beings! For you will bit by bit, lose ALL skills. From ordinary to “extra-ordinary”.

I have felt the powers of grounding, wind and the wisdoms coming with it.

And i hope all will experience this for themselves, and beyond, the contact with the wonderful, true nature.
Where love is...

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: anon27 ()
Date: June 19, 2018 08:20PM

The simple objective proof that Peter Young is not who presents himself to be is this:

Peter Young claims to be able to teach Tibetan Buddhism at a very high level.
Yet he mis-teaches the Buddha’s most basic instructions.

Here is the evidence:

Dr Robert Thurman is recognised by both Tibetan and Western practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism as one of the foremost scholars and translators, and accomplished practitioners, of Tibetan Buddhism alive today.
Thurman has been a personal friend of the Dalai Lama for more than 40 years. He is the author of countless books, and is respected, and fully recognised, by literally everyone connected to Tibetan Buddhism.
I’ve never heard a single even mildly negative thing about him, and I very much doubt that anyone else has either. You can watch lectures by him on YouTube, and get a measure of the man.

Peter Young teaches that the 2nd Noble Truth, the cause of suffering, is “desire”.
Dr Thurman says the Buddha said the cause of suffering is “thirst”.

Peter Young teaches that the 8 fold path, the 4th Noble Truth, uses the word “right”.
Dr Thurman says the best translation of the word the Buddha used is “realistic”.
(Also translated in Thai Buddhism as “appropriate”.)

So, objectively, as evidenced by one of the highest authorities possible, Peter Young has got two of the most basic teachings of Buddhism totally wrong.

How can Peter Young be the high-realisation Lama he claims to be, and yet teach these things so totally wrong?
He can’t.


Whole essays could be written on difference between “desire” and “thirst”, but the important thing to note is that Peter Young uses this mis-translation to convince his students to give up on all their existing desires (including life ambitions); and feel continuously worthless when they keep experiencing new desires.

Buddhism celebrates desire as a true driving force in human beings.
This is just a fact about human beings. Buddhists deal with reality.
Desire makes everything move. This is a fact.
Desire is required for movement along the path to enlightenment. This is a fact.
Lady Yeshe Tsogyal said: “Look inside desire and you will find boundless light”.
Buddhists mark a difference between a heartfelt desire, and a want.

The experience of “wanting” something is very close to what Buddha meant by “thirst”.
In a nutshell: our wants are normally fickle yet painful. We feel we need the object, but because it’s a surface want, when we get it, it’s not emotionally satisfying.

When we truly desire something, it is actually a very positive experience – we will work for it, and we will care about it when we have it. It has value.
When individuals concentrate themselves on what has real value to them, and work to understand what real value really is to them, the world becomes a better place.

Dr Thurman explains that the 8 fold path has been mis-translated to use the word “right” because Western (and highly patriarchal) theologians were looking for dogma when translating Buddhist scripture back in the 1950s. They were looking for Buddhist scripture to give commands on what to do, and what not to do, because that’s what other religions, and patriarchal systems, did.

Dr Thurman points out that Buddhism is beyond duality, so there are no commandments.
There is no dogma. There is no god-figure who ultimately decides what is “right” and what is “wrong”.
It is not patriarchal. All the patriarchal elements have been added onto Buddhism.

Dr Thurman then says very clearly that the reason this (in some ways deliberate) mistake has been perpetuated, is to support hierarchy.
If you teach someone to look for the “right” way to do something, or think something, then you are automatically giving yourself the power to say they’ve got it right, or wrong.
Otherwise, how does the student know they’ve got it right or wrong?
Right and wrong = hierarchy = power + wealth for the "righteous".

This is why Peter Young mis-teaches the 8 fold path. He, like many others, mis-uses it to establish authority over his students.
This type of authority simply does not exist in Buddhism.
It is nothing to do with what Buddha taught.
This is one fundamental reason why Buddhism is not a religion.

In Buddhism, by looking for the “realistic” way to do something, or think about something, then the power is all yours.
The Buddha said: think for yourself.
No one can tell you what is realistic. Only you can decide this.
The only way you can decide this with accuracy is to become more and more conscious of what you are doing and what’s around you.
That’s a big part of true waking up: looking to understand, and do, what is realistic.

Acting realistically, thinking realistically, meditating realistically, having a realistic livelihood ... these things all suddenly make perfect sense as a direct and practical path away from suffering, don’t they?
A person can act on them, perfect them, apply them directly in every circumstance.
In doing so, that person will automatically improve things for others around them.
These good effects from being realistic are what the Buddha identified and taught.

On the other hand, what on earth do “right action” “right thought” and “right meditation” actually mean?
Nobody knows, except the man at the top of the hierarchy.
Buddhism is all about getting to what is real, not conforming to the man at the top's view.

How can you get beyond duality when you’re looking to do everything “right”?
It’s impossible. It’s a trap.
When we look at what Dr Thurman found the Buddha actually said: be realistic, then we see it is already beyond the duality of “right” and “wrong”.
This is clear support to the Buddha’s suggestion that his path does in fact lead a person into the non-dual experience of being free from suffering.

We see the truth of this on a practical level where being realistic is actually the solution to every problem.
There can be no debate about that!
This is not semantic cleverness.
It is a very practical instruction that anyone can apply at anytime to improve their experience of life, whatever they are doing.

Being realistic (staying grounded) is even more important in spiritual practice.



These objective facts prove that Peter Young is mis-teaching Buddhism, and is therefore not the highly accomplished Buddhist pracitioner he presents himself to be.

These objective facts also indicate very strongly that Peter Young's methods will produce marked negative effects in his students.

Being honest about him is therefore, on every level, a very positive action, for yourself, and others.

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: anon27 ()
Date: August 27, 2018 11:00PM

I've found a few more websites with views on Peter Young:

1. [www.thedaobums.com]

Sample: "My personal view is Young is a dangerous person, who seeks to manipulate vunerable young people into following him in a manner very similar to a cult. I watched the way the students at his then club bowed and scraped around him and how he clearly expected this. There is no need for any legitimate master to demand this. ... for the record, I would be more than happy to repeat this under oath should Mr Young wish to seek legal redress."


2. [thesanghakommune.org]

Although this site openly admits it has an agenda, what's interesting is that this is a Chinese perspective:

Sample: "Lama Dondrup Dorje, in the above video is ... continuously misrepresenting Chinese culture, and brain-washing Westerners into following nonsense and believing in religiously inspired mythology. None of this Lama Dondrup Dorje expression is real. ... non-Chinese people fall for what Lama Dondrup Dorje is teaching. The people in this video are the victims of a ‘cult’ mentality ... These people are brain-washed to act in a manner that Lama Dondrup Dorje requires ... How crazy all this seems from a genuine Chinese cultural perspective ... Lama Dondrup Dorje and his misled ‘Taijiquan’ students, represent delusion in action, and displays how suitably motivated individuals can throw themselves around a padded floor, if the psycho-physical climate requires it."


3. [www.bullshido.net]

Sample: "[Peter Young's video is] an interesting example of an unusual, but by no means 'supernatural' phenomenon. Music hall and vaudeville performers used the same principles back in the late 1800s, often presented as a demonstration of "human magnetism"; modern stage hypnotists and faith healers, likewise."


4. [www.forumartimarziali.com]

Sample: "I can tell you an episode that in the gym where I learned became famous: [Peter Young] came to do an internship with us a Chinese teacher and wanted to show how people were flying with his Qi power; so my teacher gave him to try it with an experienced student (30 years of practice) ....
When in front of everyone he could not make him fly as he wanted (he did not move him an inch). Peter Young got very angry ... He tried to find excuses of various kinds, but the truth was clear to everyone ... go very cautious .... very very very ..."

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Re: Lama dondrup Dorje / Peter Young FAKE
Posted by: anon27 ()
Date: August 27, 2018 11:16PM

Another website worth looking at:


[dharmawheel.net]

Samples:

1.
"Does anybody here have experience of the [Peter Young's] Pathgate Institute of Buddhist Studies in Newcastle, UK? ...
I ask because I took refuge with the teacher there, Lama Dondrup Dorje, several years ago, and only recently have begun coming across many suggestions and reports that the Institute is not genuine, that Rinpoche hasn't been ordained, that students are brainwashed ... Certain things I've experienced have left me feeling unsettled ... which have included:

- being verbally abused and told that we know absolutely nothing in comparison to the teacher (in the exact words, you know 0.00000000001% of what I know).

- it seems all the students believe being yelled at and put down is good for them, it cuts away their egos

- everything we've ever done in life is wrong

- that we shouldn't read any books on Dhamma because whoever wrote them doesn't know what they're talking about, and that even when we listen to his verbal teachings we have no clue what he is talking about

- that we should be compassionate toward but avoid any meaningful relationship with anyone who hasn't taken refuge, including our friends and family

- I've even been out drinking with Lama Dondrup, which I thought was to relax my 'fixation' on abstaining from alcohol

- I've been made to feel guilty and ashamed to tell my partner my feelings toward them because that's 'attachment' and that my love isn't real

My biggest concern in all of this is my partner. She has paid over $10,000 to go to a two month summer retreat there. In the time she's gotten more and more involved, I've seen her gradually cut off all her old friends, she's begun to treat her family very badly and distance herself from them, believes she ... has to give up everything she once loved because, to begin with, all her goals and wishes were 'wrong in the first place'. "



2.
"I've gone to the Palyul Nyingma international website and there's absolutely no reference to this institute on their authorised centres page. Which is very strange as Rinpoche speaks so much about how close he and HH Penor Rinpoche were and of all the grand work he does / did for him. I've sent the International Association m an email requesting clarification on whether this centre has been directly authorised by HH Penor Rinpoche.

It's funny but the Pathhgate website says that it is a member of the Palyul International Sangha, yet all the links on their website to the international sangha and regional centres go to sites that have been setup by Pathgate themselves, not to the Palyul Nyingma sites operated by HH Penor Rinpoche's foundation and his authorised teachers."



3.
"This is the official Palyul Centres around the world.
[palyul.org]
I just can't find that centre in the list.



4.
"For what it's worth, I very recently woke up from 5 plus years of attempting to apply myself to the pathgate audio teachings from the website ... They had a bad effect in my life and on me and I think it could have been much worse. ... And this article lists pathgate as a:
'maximum' on the Group Psychological Abuse Scale, characterized by absolutely indefensible misbehavior and violation of the common vows of Vajrayana Buddhism"

[tibetanaltar.blogspot.com] ... -amok.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anyone thinking about getting involved with this organization or taking on board the teachings learn from my hard earned "enlightenment" experience and don't do it."

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