It’s now a year on since Real Love UK closed its doors. To replace their planned ’12-month program’ they substituted it with a program to unhook people from their excess dependency on Real Love and into a better psychological place. However, Real Love lives on despite Pete and Nikki Uglow giving it up.
Kimberley Stretthill has taken over from where Pete and Nikki left off with her group, called Real Love Europe. It’s a bit difficult to find as it seems to be promoted on closed and secretive pages on facebook and not publicised in the same way the UK ‘Real Love Company’ was. Kimberley is Greg’s favourite person and loves lying in his lap naked. Greg’s wife Donna does not like this going on all the time when she comes to the US, but Kimbo is such a big fan and follower of Real Love and is intent on supplying Greg with whoever she can get to him for an expensive ‘intervention’.

Groups don’t seem to be publicised openly like they were prior to the close down. Yet Real Love goes on. Some people woke up from their enthrallment and realised they had been in a cult and are in deep shock, realising that they have no life or people in their life to go back to – as they were ‘coached’ to remove all non-RealLove people from their life (partner, parents, children, family, friends, coworkers, hobbyists – everyone). Stopping the constant RealLove ‘immersion’ into all things Real Love 24 hours a day also causes psychological distress (or mental cold turkey) as those leaving try to figure out their life. But some trundle along trying to keep up the Real Love façade without all the dependence, and with a strictly limited world in which only those still committed to RealLove can be part of. To cope with this extreme life some have chosen to disassociate from the real world as much as possible (short of living in rural isolation!!). This means disengaging from social media and having no contact with non-RealLove people in order to keep the idea of bliss and happiness going. Those who had not quite captured RealLove or who were ‘difficult’ and ‘needy’ were just ejected from any further help or indeed the 12-month rehashed program.

The RL coaches have all been busy reinventing how they will deliver RealLove within their normal coaching offer. Pete and Nikki are working on ‘infidelity’ which they claim they can cure with religion in 3 days!! They’ll clearly be focusing on Gregs books on marriage and victimhood as their base. Pity the people who go to them to save their marriage who’ll be told that they’ll have to go to the US and pay several thousand pounds for an intervention where they’ll have to lay in the arms of Greg Baer naked and tell this strange man that they love him, and then call him daddy. Ben Leppier is working with marriage – both prior to marriage and after the big day. His focus will clearly be Greg’s books on dating and marriage. This is the ‘mormon’ way folks. NO holding hands, hugging, kissing or sexual activity until the wedding night. Heaven help anyone who just falls in love with ‘being in love’ and the concept of love and who finds on the wedding night that they don’t find a connection in ‘real’ terms, with one or the other not wanting to be kissed, touched or to have sexual relations with the other. Greg promises some sort of unbelievable magic if you do things his way – step-by-step by way of his instructions. And if two people find they are not really compatible after this fantasy journey? They have to stay with it – they have to ‘not like it/dislike it and live with it’. Another coach, Tara, has continued with her work in the business sector and uses the RealLove in These two, Pete and Ben, have failed in business many times and keep coming back with another ‘get rich quick scheme’ but this time, since being a part of RealLove and becoming Mormons, they are merely reinventing the RealLove Cult as a new business, instead of a bonafide business, and using former RealLove adherents to write glowing reviews for them. Another coach, Tara uses the Workplace as her focus. This is where RealLove does do genuine ‘Large Group Awareness Training’. Imagine going to work and believing you are getting some sort of workplace training and find out you’ll be doing RealLove instead!! Imagine the horror!! Kathryn was the first to introduce Greg’s transformation from holding being clothed to holding being done naked. She’s held groups in her home, and while these are not now publicly publicised, its known that she still holds groups and promotes RealLove. There were some Wise People who were avidly into the RealLove Parenting aspects when it was run by Pete and Nikki and it’s not sure whether this area is still being pushed out.

So sadly, RealLove in the UK is not yet dead and buried forever.
What is alarming is that it has become a lot more deceptive than what it was, and will serve to draw people in to Greg Baer’s ideology through smoke and mirrors that are far less obvious. Instead of people actively being pulled into groups and engaging directly with the Cult, they will be participating in bonafide coaching which will sneakily draw them in to RealLove in a more deceptive way. Imagine having coaching for infidelity or marriage and ending up as part of your therapy sitting in Greg Baer’s lap and becoming a Mormon. Let’s hope people can see through this deception a lot easier than when RealLove was set up the way it was last year.

Are people happy and ‘living the life’? Judging by those who have left, RealLove became a nightmare and a chore and not what it promised on the label. Being ‘deconstructed’ by untrained people and rebuilt into someone different is an odd form of learning how to be a loving person – to give as well as to receive. Love really is one of those things that you learn about by doing it. No need for complicated processes, books, routines, groups, interventions etc. Just do it. But without all that constant guidance does it have the magic it professed? And how long can one go on with two identities before something has to give. The cult identity works better when its being dominated and controlled in some way whereupon the original identity can be overshadowed and silenced. What happens when the control goes away? I guess is one becomes highly defiant and continues to over-absorb in RealLove by the process of total immersion, then the cult identity might continue to be in the ascendant. However, if one does not engage in the immersion process, how long would it take before there was a dichotomy of conflict between the real identity and its gut instinct and that of the cult identity and its ideology. Most people haven’t woken up and are still believing the fallacy and defiantly and stubbornly sticking together because they so desperately want RealLove to work and don’t want to comprehend that it’s a Cult. They don’t want to face the fact that it was a scam and that it’s not ever going to work. Some are inevitably so determined that they were not fooled and that RealLove is not a cult that they will stick with it and stick with it despite the contrary. They will believe that those leaving are just being a victim or have been splashed by outsiders. They will keep trying to tell themselves that they are living the RealLove dream and are in total bliss and happiness while deep down they know that they are not and their instincts are telling them that it is all a great big farce. The financial and personal investment has been incredible in some cases that admitting it was a cult and a scam is just too embarrassing so they will deny their gut instincts and keep believing. Even wives and husbands of coaches (daddies and mummies) are questioning RealLove and starting to see how idiotic and pathetic the whole organisation is.

Just thought I would add this link to YouTube.

[youtu.be]

Its a video of a set of slides from the end of last year,when Pete Uglow and Ben Leppier threw together a last ditch attempt to save their arses (they had already taken thousands of pounds off people for a 12mnth programme,so had to put together somthing when they pulled the plug on real love uk), and contradicts everything that they are now both starting their own companies again and claiming to teach,just another spin on what they first set up,when they were promoting "real love uk".Nothing has changed,the scam has just been renamed under their own buisinesses.

Pete Uglows company is now called "Soulmate Solutions ltd"and their website is www.getoveranaffair.com and Ben Leppiers company is called "the marriage people" and his website is www.themarriagepeople.co.uk Both websites state absolutely outrageous claims which are just not true and I urge you to read all the other posts on this forum under anything titled "real love" before making a decision to invest any money.

Here is another link to YouTube of Ben Leppier which you might be interested to take a look at. I will let you make your own mind up about it.Its a personal video,sent to me after my "intervention"with him (which both Pete Uglow and Ben Leppier are now offering again for outrageous sums of money),after I was taught to remember feeling "loved" by him. Pretty embarrassing, but if it helps just one person expose the fraud,then its worth it.

[youtu.be]

Please do your research before parting with any money,as I have said in a previous post,you could end up losing much more than money.

Just thought I would add this link to youtube.

[youtu.be]


Its a video of a set of slides from the end of last year,when Pete Uglow and Ben Leppier threw together a last ditch attempt to save their arses (they had already taken thousands of pounds off people for a 12mnth programme,so had to put together somthing when they pulled the plug on real love uk), and contradicts everything that they are now both starting their own companies again and claiming to teach,just another spin on what they first set up,when they were promoting "real love uk".Nothing has changed,the scam has just been renamed under their own buisinesses.

Pete Uglows company is now called "Soulmate Solutions ltd"and their website is www.getoveranaffair.com and Ben Leppiers company is called "the marriage people" and his website is www.themarriagepeople.co.uk Both websites state absolutely outrageous claims which are just not true and I urge you to read all the other posts on this forum under anything titled "real love" before making a decision to invest any money.

Here is another link to YouTube of Ben Leppier which you might be interested to take a look at. I will let you make your own mind up about it.Its a personal video,sent to me after my "intervention"with him (which both Pete Uglow and Ben Leppier are now offering again for outrageous sums of money),after I was taught to remember feeling "loved" by him. Pretty embarrassing, but if it helps just one person expose the fraud,then its worth it.

[youtu.be]

Please do your research before parting with any money,as I have said in a previous post,you could end up losing much more than money.

If you are wondering why I keep re-posting the same thread,its because I have received threats,via youtube,(no guessing who is complaining,as its not good for their businesses) so here are the links again.

[youtu.be]


Its a video of a set of slides from the end of last year,when Pete Uglow and Ben Leppier threw together a last ditch attempt to save their arses (they had already taken thousands of pounds off people for a 12mnth programme,so had to put together somthing when they pulled the plug on real love uk), and contradicts everything that they are now both starting their own companies again and claiming to teach,just another spin on what they first set up,when they were promoting "real love uk".Nothing has changed,the scam has just been renamed under their own buisinesses.

Pete Uglows company is now called "Soulmate Solutions ltd"and their website is www.getoveranaffair.com and Ben Leppiers company is called "the marriage people" and his website is www.themarriagepeople.co.uk Both websites state absolutely outrageous claims which are just not true and I urge you to read all the other posts on this forum under anything titled "real love" before making a decision to invest any money.

Here is another link to YouTube of Ben Leppier which you might be interested to take a look at. I will let you make your own mind up about it.Its a personal video,sent to me after my "intervention"with him (which both Pete Uglow and Ben Leppier are now offering again for outrageous sums of money),after I was taught to remember feeling "loved" by him. Pretty embarrassing, but if it helps just one person expose the fraud,then its worth it.

[youtu.be]

Please do your research before parting with any money,as I have said in a previous post,you could end up losing much more than money.

Link wrote:

Quote

If you are wondering why I keep re-posting the same thread,its because I have received threats,via youtube,(no guessing who is complaining,as its not good for their businesses) so here are the links again.

Just in case any of us receives threats or otherwise questionable messages
via CEI's private messaging (PM), please contact Mr. Rick Ross, CEO of Cult Education Institute and moderator of this message board.

Mr Ross can be contacted here.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Send Mr Ross a copy of the offending PM complete
with URL, date and time and username of whoever sent the message.

Sending copies of questionable message board and PM items to the moderator is the only way to keep the CEI message
board a safe and secure place.

You are not being weak in doing this.

You are not 'whingeing'

Do not let someone accuse you of being too sensitive or lacking a sense of humor.

And don't back down if someone accuses you of being abusive by standing up
for yourself.

Dr. Jennifer J Freyd has termed this the DARVO technique.

Quote

Definition of DARVO
DARVO refers to a reaction perpetrators of wrong doing, particularly sexual offenders, may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. DARVO stands for "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender." The perpetrator or offender may Deny the behavior, Attack the individual doing the confronting, and Reverse the roles of Victim and Offender such that the perpetrator assumes the victim role and turns the true victim -- or the whistle blower -- into an alleged offender. This occurs, for instance, when an actually guilty perpetrator assumes the role of "falsely accused" and attacks the accuser's credibility and blames the accuser of being the perpetrator of a false accusation

[dynamic.uoregon.edu]

[forum.culteducation.com]

If you are wondering why I keep re-posting the same thread,its because I have received threats via youtube. (no guessing for who is complaining,as its not good for their businesses) so here it is again,all be it a slide missing as it had a picture of both ben leppier and pete uglow on it.

[youtu.be]



Its a video of a set of slides from the end of last year,when Pete Uglow and Ben Leppier threw together a last ditch attempt to save their arses (they had already taken thousands of pounds off people for a 12mnth programme,including me,so had to put together somthing when they pulled the plug on real love uk), and contradicts everything that they are now both starting their own companies again and claiming to teach,just another spin on what they first set up,when they were promoting "real love uk".Nothing has changed,the scam has just been renamed under their own businesses.

Pete Uglows company is now called "Soulmate Solutions ltd"and their website is www.getoveranaffair.com and Ben Leppiers company is called "the marriage people" and his website is www.themarriagepeople.co.uk Both websites state absolutely outrageous claims which are just not true and I urge you to read all the other posts on this forum under anything titled "real love" or "soulmate solutions ltd" before making a decision to invest any money.

Hello,

I see there are a couple of threads about Real Love so I just picked one.

I am conflicted about posting this, because whilst I don’t want to dig up the past I feel a responsibility to add another voice to the posts already on here. I found it helpful to read the other posts and I suspect far more people that have been affected (negatively) by RL read this forum than post in it.

If you are here doing some homework on RL or the people involved in it - STEER CLEAR. Don’t have any more conversations with them and go elsewhere. If you feel that something is “off” with RL - listen to that instinct. Your judgement is right.

I have a fair bit of first hand experience of RL, my spouse (now ex) got into it and in the spirit of keeping us together I got involved for about a year, went to seminars, had interventions, spoke to Pete and Ben, also talked to Greg, watched lots of videos and read some of the books. But I was always somewhat of an outsider to it myself.

Prior to this had I never come across a group like RL. Getting involved in it and meeting the people there was just so profoundly strange. What struck me most about the actual “followers”, and what if anything they seemed to have in common, was that they just wanted some relief from unhappiness and for someone to give them a sense of direction. Many of them were emotionally vulnerable, some had had terrible life struggles, but by and large they seemed like gentle people who wanted a better emotional life for themselves. I feel like a huge part of the appeal of RL is that here is a group that tells you, with absolute conviction, that everything is going to be ok and now that you have found them you won’t be alone bearing the life long burden, and struggle, and seemingly endless effort of trying to work out how to make yourself happy. There is a path all worked out and you just have to trust and follow it.

The books themselves have lots of practical tips and sensible sounding advice. But it’s whats communicated in person and over Skype that is disturbing. Rather than helping people, Greg and his proponents exploit emotional vulnerability to create for themselves status, validation and money, and worst of all it leaves followers believing that RL and its philosophy is the only way to look at the world, and that you are either in (and accept Greg as your one true father) or out. The financial expense but more importantly emotional cost incurred as people get deeper into it and gradually separate themselves from their previous “toxic” relationships creates a barrier to leaving, as does the social reinforcement of others within the group. This is a “high touch” philosophy, regular contact with Greg and other followers is strongly encouraged so that you can “get the help you need” and I feel like this is an important part of keeping people engaged with it. A lot of what I saw seemed to be people whose confidence in their own judgement had been knocked by bad luck or previous poor choices, wrestling with what their instinct was telling them (“this feels wrong,”) and getting persuaded otherwise by the people in RL.

The fundamental issue as I see it is that this is a (very expensive) life philosophy which at its core creates an inappropriate reliance on and intimacy with the teachers of it. These people are untrained in psychology or related fields, and don’t have the experience, professional distance, or the right motivations to help people with real emotional problems.

The system of creating “wise people” is a way of keeping people validated within RL, it’s a goal to work towards, and of course it costs money. It occurred to me there is a parallel here with the “levels” one can progress through Scientology. Validation and emotional acceptance is conveyed through moving through the levels. The actual “study” involved is reading passages from the self help books and reflecting on your own life experiences, people sat in one another’s laps, chipping in interpretations of life experiences and behaviour seen through the lens of the RL philosophy. You pay to do more courses to progress through the levels, my ex was quoted £3,000 a year and I spoke to a few people for whom raising this kind of money was a serious undertaking - they saved up or borrowed where they could. But of course what price can you put on happiness?

The expense can be huge, we paid £3,000 for a weekend with a UK coach and my ex a further £3,000 for a second “intervention”, this comes with a year of weekly phone calls with your coach. Visiting Greg in the states we were quoted £10,000 (flights etc on top). Ultimately we got the point where I was asked to either fly to the US for an intervention with Greg or divorce. I want to be careful here as I don’t directly “blame” RL for the breakup of my marriage, but my ex’s embrace of RL certainly closed off the path to keeping it together - it was Greg’s way or the high way. We each made our respective choices. I could not stomach going “deeper” into a life philosophy I didn’t believe in, but more importantly distrusted had our own best interests at heart. To support a couple of other comments here my ex is now a Mormon (having never been religious before that point) and attends a UK Mormon church on a regular basis. It does seem to lead to that for some people.

I feel such sorrow for my ex who is an intelligent and wonderful person, but has had a lifelong struggle with emotionally insecurity which made her vulnerable to RL. Ironically I think she probably feels the same way about me as I struggle along in the emotional wilderness she perceives exists outside of RL!

There is a huge list of problems with RL, but for me the most pernicious is the core idea that no love you ever had before was “real” love, not from your parents, previous or current partners, lifelong friends, none of them. Only people within RL are capable of giving you “the love you need” and in particular your father figure or “daddy” (or less commonly mum/mummy). The instinctive creepiness I think most people feel about lying in a relative stranger’s lap and calling them daddy is a nice example of a good instinct that RL coaches you out of - why that instinct just signifies an inability to trust which is at the heart of all your previous problems! You either buy into this (as my ex did) or you reject it. I went to the intervention and did the cuddling and I can see that for those who are in emotional pain and susceptible to it, it would feel revelatory to “feel accepted for who you truly are”. But that is not what is happening. This “love” does know bounds. You will need to conform and you will need to pay.

I should say I did the cuddling with clothes on, it is hugely disturbing to see references on here to people doing this naked as to me it represents a serious escalation of the degree of exploitation within RL. I never saw any nudity directly myself. However, all of this creates dependence (emotionally and financially) on RL and its people and a separation between the RL joiner and everyone else. It doesn’t feel right because it isn’t right.

This bit is a guess - but my feeling was the motivations of the former UK leaders of RL (Pete, Ben) were probably primarily financial. RL has not been a lifelong pursuit for them, they have had other businesses in the past, and it’s interesting to see that they have launched new (to me slightly more mainstream sounding) relationship advice businesses borrowing elements of the RL philosophy - although I see there is a view that their connection to Greg perhaps continues.

I don’t know why the UK branch stopped. But it occurred to me at the time that the RL ethos puts a lot of time and emotional commitment on the “wise men/women” to deal with highly emotional people, and it must have put a strain on the UK leaders that would have been very hard to sustain. There is none of the professional distance a properly trained counsellor would have. I wondered too what the followers would do when abandoned by their “daddy”, and whether it would risk putting them into new emotional turmoil. It is reckless irresponsibility with people’s emotional states. In my ex’s case she switched over from Ben to Greg and I know others did this, if they could afford it. I would guess that Greg sought to retain the most emotionally invested (and coincidentally financially liquid) followers.

Greg himself is a whole different kettle of fish. RL is expensive and no doubt he is keen to continue earning money from it, but my feeling is his primary motivation is status. His status as founder and author of the RL philosophy is extremely high within the group, he has “all the answers” and whilst people are told to think of him as their “dad” or “daddy” the actual relationship seemed to me closer to a controlling older boyfriend who is also some kind of celebrity. I would not be at all surprised if people who had found themselves in unhealthy controlling relationships in the past ended back here, being told what they could and couldn't do, that other people aren't to be trusted, separated and isolated from parents, friends and family - repeating the pattern.

There is nothing inherently structural I see that will make RL collapse, it doesn’t operate in mass numbers as far as I can tell, and indeed it doesn’t “scale” at all easily beyond the borders of Greg’s own forceful, righteous, and immoral personality. He struck me as an intelligent man, but no genius. He has been going for many years, and my guess is that trying to talk those too far into RL out of it in any direct way would provoke a deep and negative emotional response. They have built a reliance on it that becomes too upsetting to remove. My ex was (willingly) swallowed up by it to the point that any conversation that wasn’t a RL related one seemed pointless to her. It was all she talked about.

Every now and again someone would blow up on the RL Facebook page, a follower would become disillusioned and rail against what they felt was a a betrayal or a deception, the wool had been pulled over their eyes. These people were swiftly ejected and occasionally held up as an example of how not to do RL. There was nothing wrong with the system, that poor person just lost their way and now had an axe to grind. In this way dissenting voices within the community were used as a means to bind it tighter. And because it is scary and destabilising to hear such strong doubts from a former believer, this seemed to be a pretty effective technique.

I think the people inside RL will have to find their own way out of the cave (or at least to want to find a way out). But to those who are considering RL or are on the edges of it - see this post as the skeleton the main character comes across that serves as a warning - abandon hope all ye who enter here.

I have copied this post from the thread about Coercive Persuasion because it is about cults, sects and new religious groups too. This Joner person responded to a post and basically praised the cult behaviours put forward by ex-leaders of the RealLove destructive cult in the UK who are now all promoting themselves as the most amazing and wonderful coaches in the whole world, with 'thousands' of happy clients. I think they are referring to RealLove victims and not necessarily their own list of 'clientele' that have been genuinely and exclusively coached by them. It is totally shameful that these folks close down the RealLove destructive cult but continue doing some of the exact same activities that RealLove did previously, and touting the same old tripe as before - BUT - all disguised as a new and completely different venture. We're talking about taking innocent, open and vulnerable people and shoving this tripe down their throats as if it is medicine. So please BEWARE folks in the UK of any offshoot so called 'group' or 'meetup' or 'coaching' organisation that works along these particular emphases:

Marriage guidance coaching - pre-marriage and post-marriage, with special help to get the marriage going

Getting Over an Affair or Marital Infidelity - probably the nastiest group of the lot and downright unethical. The former RL daddy and mummy like to make fake posts of persons begging for help, and then answer that call with the RL tripe.

Emotional Support Groups - beyond belief and not run by professional mental health counsellors, so please stay away if they are not qualified (and especially if their so-called qualification was from the crisp packet of Greg Baer). Being told that not a single living soul on this planet is 'qualified' or 'authorised' to give love other than Greg Baer and RealLove coaches is complete nonsense. Being told that you are empty and incapable of loving anyone, and in particular yourself, unless you go through the RL process is not in any form a way of therapy leading to freedom of mind, peace and balance. The leaders of such groups have been 'at' or 'doing' the whole RealLove thing for many, many years and still have massive identity and ego problems - probably many more issues than what they ever had to begin with. If their head chatter is still not healthy after 4, 5, 6 or more years then it never will be with this destructive cult ideology.

Baby Love Groups - being cuddled and caressed like a baby, being a child again. Some sort of regression therapy promoted as 'loving' which copies much of the RealLove holding and group sharing, but with unqualified persons.

The Agony and Ecstasy of Marriage - a vomit inducing group focused on the Mormon concept of remaining stuck in a partnership, marriage, relationship etc with someone you no longer have feelings or love for, don't gel with, don't get along with, don't connect with and to whom each other are being coached to stay together forever because the RealLove principles tell them so. Yeah, its much better to stay in a toxic unloving relationship and learn to just accept it rather than move on, grow from the lessons, and embrace that you have different journeys. This group promotes heavily Greg Baers third concept of loving bliss and supposedly what 'unconditional'love (as in the RealLove version of it) is all about. The first is love each other dearly and stay together. The second is don't get along and are not compatible anymore, don't like it so break up and move on. But the third (Mormon and RealLove) version promoted here is when you don't actually get along, gel, love each other etc. but you are coached to stay together regardless and are forced to enact unconditional love to keep it that way while suppressing how you really feel inside. Totally unhealthy.

Soulmate Solutions was another idea bandied about.

So here follows is my reply to Joner…...


Joner, you are indeed a Cult Apologist and should not be on this forum.

Here we go, all cheers for Cult Apologist and Supporter Joner – we all knew that this sort of post would not take too long to come along. Just as RealLove itself and the various creepy Meetups groups have asked adherents to do in the past it seems Pete & Nikki, Ben, Kathryn (the naked holder), Tara, Kimberly (another naked holder) and whoever else, have once again put the call out for their ardent brainwashed sheep to praise, recommend and promote them highly once again. Adherents have been called to put up positive reviews about RL books on Amazon, about Meetup groups, and RealLove itself. And now it’s time for the various offshoot RL Cult groups that have sparked up in the UK from the closure of RealLoveUK by the various daddies and mummies. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to the see the total addiction and dependence on RealLove – in whatever form or name it takes shape – when people are still stuck in so-called coaching or love therapy many years later with almost worship of the people they ‘need’ to help them get through their lives.

It is quite clear as Cult_Free states that Joner is only on this forum to promote RealLove and its various offshoots that deceptively hide it within the façade of being a genuine ‘helping’ profession. But RealLove by any way it manifests is most definitely NOT a bona fide genuine member of the helping professions. The ‘helping’ professions (therapy, coaching and counselling, nursing etc.) are for vulnerable people or those at a weak or vulnerable point in their life who need help in a neutral and empowering way to move forward and gain their autonomy, independence, self-worth and empowerment to run their own life in their own way by their self. That’s what the real thing does, but not what any of these RealLove based groups do. The genuine helping profession helps you to get back onto the journey of your own life and to be able to navigate it yourself without any help. The RealLove based Ideology is embedded in the work of these groups that Wiseowl has spoken about (soulmate solutions, get over an affair, the agony and the ecstasy, the marriage people etc.) but unsuspecting people will ‘believe’ or think they are getting genuine help from genuine helping professionals that have trained for many years and are registered and qualified when in fact they will be getting themselves into something that they will be stuck in and dependant on for a long time.

There’s a difference between what and how the genuine ‘helping’ profession helps people and what becoming involved with these people who make it look like they are genuine helping professionals when in fact they are Cult Proponents set on running your lives for you and taking lots of money in the process. You know something’s not right when you question things because they will act all like the victim while telling you that you are being the victim and stating that they have given you loads of love of which they feel you are ungrateful for while going on to turn things on you being a bully of them. (DARVO technique I think it’s called and it is explained elsewhere on this forum).

So what are the differences………

Helping professions don’t overload people with expectations of attending highly expensive (usually costing in the thousands of dollars/pounds) urgently and ‘desperately needed’ interventions, weekend seminars, year-long programs etc. to provide some magical instant healing or recovery. Genuine helping professions don’t ever undertake to promote such a fanciful idea of putting so much financial pressure on people who are vulnerable and weak. In fact there are industry guidelines as to fees and costs, lengths of sessions and no one ‘has’ to do anything other than the sessions that they sign up for. This means no year-long programs, no seminars or courses, and definitely NO interventions. There is no psychological, emotional or mental need for a 3 day long intense psychological profiling session – even though it looks and feels like you are just sitting there telling the intervention team everything about you, your life, your loves, your fears, your hates, what bad things you’ve done, regrets, shames, etc… No genuine helping professional needs this amount of depth and prying into your life and psyche to help you.

The helping profession does not overload persons emotionally, mentally or psychologically and know how the mind functions so much so that they help people to safely and ethically navigate through their traumas and problems to the other side – the side where one no longer needs the helping profession anymore! Each session is structured to ensure emotional safety and that the client is not left emotionally ‘open’ or vulnerable in between sessions. They also plan in advance how many sessions may be required to work through the concerns and very often as specific issues are dealt with many others are removed and lifted away at the same time as a consequence of the techniques and methods used. People don’t necessarily look forward to going to therapy, coaching or whatever helping they are getting as it’s not pleasant to work through painful things. Rarely do people feel that the helping they are getting is something to enjoy and very often it is draining and tiresome for the next 24 to 48 hours afterwards. It is also uplifting too, but in general when confronting painful things it’s not something you look forward to all week as you are usually concentrating on working through what came up the previous session. No one gets addicted or dependant on genuine helping sessions. No one excludes love, help, kindness, compassion or caring from others in their life in the misrepresented notion that they can only get what they need from the helping professional. No one needs to rely on the helping professional in this way and they do not manufacture or cause this type of reliance and dependence to happen. But RealLove based cult ideology offshoots that are posing as helping professionals do do this. Joner’s words, as well as others on this forum elsewhere confirm that this is so. Your emotional well-being should not be tied in to a helping professional – if it is, then they are not a genuine helping professional.

The helping professions don’t break confidentiality and privacy which underpins the profession as a whole. The only time when these are broken is when it is a life or death situation for the client, the helper or others. Patients or clients are NOT put in touch with each other, and there are no secret social media pages for people to share private material publicly. This is not promoted by genuine helping professionals. Similarly, there are no in-between individuals who act as a go-between or support to the helping professional by dishing out guidance between sessions or in moments of so-called ‘crisis’. In RealLove these people are called ‘wise-people’ and in being in this position are privy to all the confidential and private information of the client – thus this is not genuine helping in any way whatsoever.

Genuine helping professionals ensure that their client has coping strategies to assist them with living their life between sessions and work to instil confidence and self-love. This is the total opposite to RealLove and its offshoots whereby once joining and embracing the ideology people end up having regular crises which require regular phone calls, coaching sessions and groups to keep in check. I have seen with my own eyes a completely functional person suddenly become crisis ridden and needing phone calls several times a day to coach them into coping with life. The Cult Ideology does more harm than good and does not help even though people believe it does.

The helping professions do not have expectations of pushing a particular agenda and belief system (in this case the RealLove Destructive Cult Ideology and its principles, rules, laws etc.) onto the client and all the persons in the client’s life (family, friends, children etc.). When you undertake to seek help from the helping profession it’s the client, and the client only, that gets the help - the client/patient, no one else. It’s only the client’s behaviours and attitudes, thoughts and reactions that need to be worked on and in the genuine helping profession there is absolutely no need for anyone else in the clients family to engage with the therapy, coaching or whatever. No one goes to get the help of the helping profession other than for their self and the genuine helping profession does not set out to engage as many people as possible from the client’s life into the process!!

The genuine helping profession has ethical, moral and professional guidelines and standards to which all have to abide by in order to maintain their license to practice. The industry also has the benefit of over one hundred years of professional research and development into the workings of the mind, brain, psychology and human development etc. and to be in this profession requires a lot of stringent study and practical experience guided by long time professionals. Being a registered practitioner also requires regular ongoing assessment and guidance throughout the tenure of the professionals’ entire working and practicing career. The standards are there for many reasons and protect both the client, the helper and the industry itself. Untrained self-made and self-defined gurus like Greg Baer (and many others before him) all speak of professional therapy and coaching etc. as being useless and that the standards and guidelines inhibit genuine healing and recovery. A lot of bad press about getting professional help is promoted by RealLove and very often it uses the fear people have of psychiatric methods to steer this fear of avoiding professional help and going to them instead. RealLove and its processes, as too those used by its offshoots, are unprofessional and would never pass the rigorous standards set by the profession. There are no standards. Even Mr Baer has been overheard telling Pete Uglow how good Pete ‘fakes it’ and that this is what you do! Faking it and making it up as you go along is NOT professional help as it excludes a healing plan altogether and has no end in sight. Standards are there for a reason, and these are very good reasons for all persons concerned. Promoting that there does not need to be standards and ethical guidelines and that such things inhibit improvement and healing is outrageous and clearly not in the best interests of the client.

The genuine helping profession takes itself and its work very seriously indeed. It does not use itself – the helping bit, be this coaching, therapy, counselling etc. – to be a front for a clever and deceptive attempt at building up dependence on a destructive cult ideology like RealLove. If it was coaching it would be coaching and utilise standard, well regarded and successful techniques to help people through whatever it is they need help with until they are set free – as soon as possible! Likewise, if it was therapy or counselling the helping profession is about getting people out of the rut they are in and empowered to run their own lives without the need for the helping professionals or anyone else. Genuine helping professionals do not manage their client’s every choice and decision in life either temporarily or forever. That’s what a cult does, not a helping profession. The helping professional does not make your decisions for you or coerce you into one or another choice. Never – unless it is life threatening to yourself or another person, and that is the only time they can intervene in making a choice for a client or enforcing that choice onto a client. By the way that is also Law in most countries too! The helping profession guides the client into being able to make their own decisions and ‘own’ them confidently. They do not hold emotional power over the client in any way whatsoever because they are not the client’s ‘emotional dad’ or ‘emotional mum’ – as coaches are called in RealLove. They will help to show client’s that there are three or more options for every situation – not one or the other – and work to empower the client to have the courage, inner strength, and power to make their own decision, and ‘own’ that decision for their self. They do not have the client stuck with only two choices – the one the helper coerces them to take and one other. The genuine helping profession does not take control of the client’s life or manipulates it, they give client’s the power to make their own decisions with absolute neutrality as regards to the choices that only they can make. RealLove and its offshoot groups, meetups etc. are completely the opposite to empowerment and are more about dependency and reliance on them – forever – than of letting the client go and be strong and independent forever. That’s the genuine experiences of many who have got out of RealLove and what I have seen with my own eyes. This type of one-size-fits-all ideology keeps destructive unfulfilling relationships between people going on and on while shutting down the intuition of each partner to realise the futility of their union; while continuing to go to weekly agony and ecstasy groups to have hard line jargon and ideology doing a mindfuck that keeps people together when they are unhappy. Genuine helping would not enforce an ideology and is focused entirely on the client’s needs and on building healthy intuition and instincts in the client to make their own justified decisions on what to do. There is no ideology about what they should or should not do. The helping profession does not have an agenda, rules and principles of one single person’s ideology to follow and adhere to – it’s all about therapy.

Joner’s words at the end of their post – 9 years and still going – remind me that this is not coaching, it’s not therapy or helping in any way whatsoever – that is dependence in a nutshell. The helping professions guide and support you in gaining all the strengths you need to be able to live your life your way and to be totally in check with your own instincts and intuition. These are important human talents that guide us on our unique life journey – which is completely different to everyone else’s. However, the Cult Ideology of RealLove closes these talents down – shuts them down completely causing people to fear their own gut instincts and intuition and live in fear. Our own intuition and instincts will never harm us and are there to keep us safe, so shutting them down and fearing them is not healthy. No one should ever grapple with or battle their own instincts which tell them one thing with the helper telling them something else which does not feel right to them. The genuine helping profession does not do this – they empower the client to make and be sure of their own decisions and will not ever make or coerce any decisions onto the client.

The helping professions also work to professional moral and ethical boundaries of best practice so there are no blurred lines about peoples’ roles and responsibilities. People engaging with the professional helping professions do not ordinarily fall in love with their coach, therapist, counsellor, nurse etc. (although it can happen on extremely rare occasions, and when it does the protocol is to immediately change the helping professional). The way that RealLove uses and abuses nature’s hormones and our instincts for love and affection is disgusting and will never be seen or used in the genuine helping profession. No professionally trained helping professional would knowingly or deliberately do any actions or use any words etc. that would cause their client/patient to produce oxytocin, endorphins, dopamine etc. and react in such a way as to fall in love with the therapist or be made vulnerable in such a way. Helping professionals know that when the body is overrun with certain chemicals like this that humans can be irrational and unfocused and should not be subject to decision making at such times as they are highly suggestible and open to anything. The RealLove Cult Ideology uses such methods blatantly in various ways. It is widely known and accepted in the helping profession that if the client has some form of love or attachment to the helper then it will be difficult to be able to help the client properly, appropriately and that healing and progress will be stunted. Likewise if the helper has feelings for the client, they need to step out of the situation for the benefit of all concerned.

These same hormones are bouncing off the walls in all directions wildly at RealLove and its offshoot manufactured groups and meetups, and it is clear that no real helping is actually going on at all. People needing help are basically dependent on the group for their weekly fix of love hormones to keep them going for another week while at the same time being held in some sort of suspended animation in regards to their mind, which is shut down from critical and logical thinking. Helping professionals do not keep people stuck like this as the intention, as stated before, is to get people empowered and strong and able to live their own lives as soon as possible without the need for therapy, counselling, coaching or group meetups for the rest of their life. The sad thing is that those stuck in this cycle don’t have a clue that they are – like Joner. They sing the praises of their captors and how wonderful it is to be going to the cult group sessions after 9 long years, with no end in sight, and totally believe that this is actually normal and therapeutic. To defend and openly and publicly praise and highly recommend activities that are NOT genuine in any way whatsoever – not professionally conducted or professionally trained by a professional body, not using a tested and authorised program or techniques, lacking confidentiality, lacking professional boundaries, causing weakness and vulnerability, using coercion and undue influence, being deceptive (using the ‘front’ of being a genuine helping profession, while promoting a Cult Ideology), keeping people stuck instead of letting them go, having exorbitant costs and fees that are above and beyond what is acceptable, of using unethical and dangerous methods that only highly skilled and trained professionals would use in only rare cases… and much more!!

Helping professionals abide by true, known and tested techniques and methods to help their clients – using the best approach based on the client, their needs and the situation being dealt with. These methods have taken years of study and practice to understand and use appropriately and successfully. Helping professionals know how easy it is to trick the mind, to instil suggestions and make it look like it was all the clients own idea. But ethically and professionally if they are to ever use any of these techniques it has to be with the full and informed consent of the client with everything explained before doing so – and the client can say no. This is a major difference between the genuine helping profession and those who are not trained and ethical professionals. RealLove and its offshoots serve to use whatever techniques to manipulate and control the client’s mind without them having a clue what is going on which is why it bothers me that Joner and others outwardly recommend practices that look to all intents and purposes as being a genuine helping profession on the front of it (the façade) when in fact they are not what they purport to be and have the RealLove Destructive Cult Ideology at its core. How can anyone promote that they were helped (as in, truly helped and are now fully in control of their life and no longer need to helping professional at all) and sing the praises of the person when in fact they are, nine years later, still heavily reliant on that person. That’s NOT helping. That’s NOT the helping profession. This is false promotion. This is catching people while they are unaware and weak and believing that the help is genuine professional help when it is not. When people go to helping professionals they assume they will be helped and set free as a confident and capable person who has their life back and is in control of it again. This is not what any of the RealLoveUK offshoots are doing. No one gets out – no one! Not until they wake-up that is. And when they wake up, like you too will one day Joner, they are distraught at what they have done to bring more people into the web of deceit and get sucked in to it all. You will feel ashamed of this one day that is for sure. The thing is, that because you have already been involved for so long when you do eventually wake up you will fall very, very hard indeed. What has happened to you and your life will be so overwhelming and traumatising that you will regret and feel ashamed of things you have done and said to get people to join up and be a part of it. You cannot see that right now, because you are wearing your Cult Personality and not being the real you at all. I feel sorry for you and for your children. Our lives are a unique gift for us and for us alone. Each life is different to everyone else’s and has a completely different goal and journey to be had. As a gift it is for us to open and enjoy that gift. It is not for anyone else to open that gift and manage it for us. The lessons are ours, everything in that gift of life is for us and no one else – because everyone has their own of course. It is both wrong to take over managing others’ lives as it is to give our life over to being managed by another. That totally contradicts what the gift of life is all about. Like others, Joner, you’ll wake up one day and wonder where all the years went and what has happened and why everything is the way it is. Because one day your intuition and instinct will break through and you will realise you have wasted so many years and missed out on the things you should have done or missed out on noticing. You think I’m deluded, and I am perfectly okay with that. But there are many who have spoken and behaved just like you have here, and who were staunchly defensive of RealLove just like you are. However, once they did wake up they were in shock and disbelief at how trapped and brainwashed they had become and how the ideology, that you speak so highly of right now, took over from gut instincts and intuition. It’s one of those things that you can only truly see and believe when you step out of it and look in objectively because while you are subjectively involved you cannot see anything else. So you have done your RealLove duty and supported the ongoing deceptive spread of tripe you call wonderful. That’s because you are deeply held within it all. It isn’t until you get some books on cults – big one’s over 700 pages each – armed with a pen to underline and write in the margins how RealLove matches what is written that you will realise what it is you have got yourself into, and what it is you are deceptively drawing other unsuspecting people into by your recommendations. Until you have the courage to do that then you are just a subjective cult adherent who is brainwashed and believing the lies of said cult. And yes, you might say that you chose to do this by yourself. I hear the words “we get to choose”. They are very famous words used by many, many cults to make people believe that they are indeed making all their own choices when in fact they are not. You will get it one day, you will wake up and as you’ve already been held in this cult for such a long time it’s going to be an awful fall for you.

Finally, RealLoveUK closed down because it wasn’t growing enough and it got too much for Pete and Nikki to manage – all those highly dependent adult babies relying in calls and sessions was just too much. Greg loves it, but they didn’t quite get that this was what it would all lead to. They charged, and still do, very extortionate prices for what they do – and of course none of it is as properly trained helping professionals. They were so overwhelmed with adult babies that not long before closing it down, in a desperate attempt to make it work they promoted a number of people to the position of ‘Wise Person’ in order to take on some of the pressure of so much neediness. But then the big shocker was Greg’s new direction of naked holding of which both Kathryn and Kimberly embraced. Vulnerable women were uncomfortable and freaked out by the need for this to be done, and men getting erections and feeling uncomfortable just led Pete, and ex Police Officer, to shit himself. Kathryn and Kimberly were just following Greg’s new directions of which Pete and Nikki were unaware of to begin with. This, some presume, was the breaking point for closing it all down. And when it did close down there were two factions – those who steered towards following Greg and those steered towards following Pete and Nikki – and much disagreement on what should or should not happen next. As can be seen by what Wiseowl has shared it’s clear that all they did was cut down the intensity of the dependence and addiction levels to a more manageable level but done under a new name, a new guise, but using the same RL principles, ideologies and reliance on Pete and Nikki, or Kathryn, or Ben, or Tara, or Kimberly to run peoples’ lives and make their decisions for them. Just like you, Joner. 9 years and going of reliance and dependence on these people. THAT is not genuine professional helping in any way you look at it.


Finally, I forgot to add to this particular message that the helping professions DO NOT under ANY circumstances refer or talk people into joining a religion as part of their therapy. Absolutely out of the question and against all principles. This is what RealLove does in two very distinct ways. Firstly and foremost it is promoting Mormonism - it does this both outwardly and especially to those who committed to the program (almost like a constant reminder as to why have they not joined yet) and secondly it does this in a very subtle way too - through the RealLove materials and slowly and deceptively promoting Mormonic ideology so that you gradually believe it all, not realising. Then at a later stage it is inevitable that you should join them as you are a virtual believer anyway. Greg Baer has been overheard, and was NOT being secretive about it, when he has been clearly heard on several occasions stating that he only created RealLove to get more people into religion, most preferably Mormonism. Given the amount of pressure that is put on some people you can clearly see this aspect at work. While with others who are not very accepting of organised religion they back off and tone it down.

Genuine people-centred professional helping steers the patient/client into making their own realisations and NOT in telling them what they should or should not believe or do (except rarely where a formal intervention is required in cases of self harm, or a life and death situation). People are gently taken through and guided towards their own healing and gradually find their own freedom with assistance, in their own time. RealLove is nothing like this at all. Nothing. They focus on 'deconstructing the ego' and this is something that NO professional helping therapist would do. In fact this would only be done in extreme cases by a psychiatrist. This is an unhealthy and non beneficial act.

Those in the helping professions work on the concept of self-love first and foremost. This involves knowing self, respecting self, trusting self, liking self and believing in self. RealLove does NOT believe in doing this at all. In fact they don't condone this concept and express that it is a fallacy.


This whole destructive cult and all its offshoots are disturbing and alarming at what they are doing and how they are let loose on the general public to keep going on with this destructive rubbish under the guise of helping people. Roll on when governments can stop this from happening now and in the future. However, for now, all people can do is educate and make people aware of the pitfalls and what to look for. In regards this organisation, don't be fooled by the glitzy website, the fact Greg Baer now calls himself a 'motivational speaker', or that it states it is coaching and therapy, or that its goal is to create more love in peoples lives, or that it heals people (there are none), or that its methods work (unless you're a leaver and survivor who has sought genuine therapy, everyone who fully committed is still stuck and no further advanced in their healing despite believing they are), or that it calls itself a charity, or that there is no geographical commune, or that Baer publishes books and does videos. Balderdash. The damage this organisation has done as an entity and now spreading out in its various offshoots is disgusting and vile.

Surviving the Weird Real Love Cult

Are there any survivors out there who have recently left the weird and creepy 'Real Love' cult (US and UK versions)? This is an awful but very clever and manipulative destructive cult which leaves people who have left, or are thinking of leaving, all confused about what it is they just got out of. The mind-control is so hidden and cleverly used that members have no idea what is being done to them and find it difficult to believe they were actually in a destructive cult. Those choosing to leave, or having left, are made to feel that they have "not tried hard enough" or are "being a victim" or just plain not doing as they were told to do. When folks wake up from this one they are left utterly devastated and confused because the years/time spent in the cult seem to fall away as if they were a dream or the blink of an eye and people are left wondering what happened. Why are they separated or divorced? Why are their own children not around? Why have their family left them? Why do their co-workers and colleagues not speak to them anymore? Why are they alone? How come they have spent so much money? Where did those 5 years go? Did I really lie like a baby in the arms of an adult and pretend to be a baby? Did I really do this naked, or was it just some of the others only? Did I really proselytize like that? Did I really talk all that rubbish all the time? Was I really that bombastic to everyone that I forced my beliefs upon? Did I really allow myself to have all those 'interventions'? Did I really go to all those weekends away and twelve month programs that continually indoctrinated me with the same stuff over and over? Did I really abandon my own parents and adopt a new 'emotional daddy' (or mummy, or both) to become my new parent and who I believed would parent me properly because RealLove told me that my parents didn't really love me and had parented me wrong? In fact, how come I actually believed everything they told (indoctrinated) into me? Did I really believe that I loved my new daddy more than my real one who was still living? Did I actually believe that my new daddy had my best interests at heart? (Even though I paid good money for them to parent me). Did I actually believe I was just a child - only 2 or 3 years old - just as RealLove had told me so? Did I really behave like a child at RealLove events? Did I really believe that there are only a few 'special' people in the whole wide world (namely the founder of RealLove and his nominated daddies) who are 'qualified to love people' and that no one else in the world is qualified to love anyone unless they have been loved by these people only, and gone through a process to be qualified? Did I really believe that RealLove was just another name for 'unconditional love' - even though it was copyrighted and trademarked? Did I really believe that no one knows how to love at all, and before we can go off and date someone or love any person (known or stranger) that we MUST 'be loved' by the RealLove leader or an appointed daddy for a period of time, at specific costs (whilst also engaging in all the programs, buying all the books, attending meetups, paying for the video chats, and having expensive interventions etc. all with their costs attached) before we are qualified to know what love is and to share it to others? Did I really let my daddy choose whom I would date? Did I really follow the instructions in a book written by the leader of RealLove on what to do and say on every date? Did some people really marry or not marry on the instructions given by the leader and daddies? Did I really join the Mormons after only a short time with the group, under the dictate that 'Mormonism aligns the most closely with RealLove'? (Not putting things together that the RealLove founder was a Mormon). Did I really share all those personal truths about myself and everyone I know, and all the things that had happened in my life to these total strangers at an 'intervention' after which they knew 'everything' about me? Did I really push everyone away who tried to warn me? Did I do things and say things to those who didn't join RealLove, that were wrong and 'not me' because the group told me to? Did I really 'fear' everyone not belonging to RealLove, so much so that I avoided everyone known and unknown to me - isolating myself and only being around RealLove people? Did I really follow those written and verbal instructions to the letter? Did I really feel so scared of non-RealLove people that I could only associate with those 'doing' RealLove? Did I really believe that thousands upon thousands of people had been 'saved' by RealLove and were now 'living the life' from all of the leaders' ideology? Did I really believe that if I did not attend a RealLove Group, listen to conference calls, watch the weekly GregChatVideos, read the books over and over and over, go to all the programs and weekends, see my daddy weekly and keep having more and more interventions that I would be safe, healed, saved? That if I did not do these things I would not be able to cope, able to live? Did I really believe the post hypnotic suggestions, such as "We/I get to choose", every time I was told to do something, say something, believe something that was not my own thoughts and ideas? Did I? Did I? Did I? It is all a blank to me now, but something deep inside says it was all real and all happened. Something deep inside is wondering what happened to 'me'. Where have I gone, what's happened to me? I know I still exist, but don't quite know how to bring 'me' back to me. I don't recall any particular moment of being trapped or hoodwinked, so it must have happened slowly and without pressure - maybe that's how they 'got' me. Leaving is scary because you've systematically rejected everyone in your life, so there is no one left to go to. Hence, the fear of leaving. It's also the shame and stupidity of falling for it all, a sense of trying to 'prove' that you weren't in a destructive cult, just following a motivational speaker and their coaching program. But that bit is just the front of it all - the bit that looks and feels benign. Signing up and 'doing' RealLove is when it all changes and once you stop dipping your toes in the water and start taking RealLove 'seriously' that's when it all becomes something quite different. No one just doing groups or reading books will get caught up in the same way - but this process can wear you down and open you up to joining and 'doing' RealLove; which is when it all starts to reveal itself. And you think it’s all wonderful, that you've found your community and your 'real' family - a family of people who really know how to love and are guided by someone who is 'qualified to love'. It’s all so sickly sweetly magical. I remember it well. It seemed to be what I needed at the time, and it felt like whatever RealLove was, it was working. But I know that now to be merely what's called 'Love Bombing'. I thought I was an idiot at first, as I never seemed to understand anything - it all sounded so confusing. But now I know that this is called 'Double Bind' a process of total confusion made to look logical. I was told to walk away from anyone who 'splashed' me or took me onto 'the field of death'. Basically, anyone who questioned RealLove or my doing it, or anyone trying to make me see sense. I can see it clearly in my minds eye now - but back then I was too far gone and just did as I was told by all my new loving friends, family and daddy. But, while I feel stupid and ashamed about being pulled in, I have since learned that it can happen to ANYONE - even academics! (There are some in the group!). And it's not my fault I got pulled in, or anyone else's either, because we were all subject to mind-control techniques that we never knew anything about. Now, to pick up the pieces and find a new life, while trying to find the real 'me', build bridges, build trust with everyone I love (after all I was horrible to them all), reignite friendships and try to learn to function without the brainwashing, the groups, programs, books, daddies, calls, videos, and anything RealLove. It's not easy to just stop. After all those years and having GregChatVideos and tapes playing all night while I slept, in order to 'get' RealLove and be the loving person I was told I was not, I am in psychological 'cold turkey' from stopping all the brainwashing. Those still under the spell think I am a lunatic and have not taken RealLove seriously or have not tried hard enough, or are just being a victim. They feel sorry for me. I will still question for long time to come whether I have made the right decision to leave, while also knowing that I have indeed made the right decision. When you leave you cannot function normally and it takes months and months to get things a little bit 'together' as your headspace is a total mess. Leaving a destructive cult is devastating in so many ways. Funny thing is that you will never remember how you got in, when you were finally taken and believed - but you will never forget what your mind was like when you got out!! This cult and all its offshoots comes across as being harmless, but under the surface it’s not what it appears to be – and as with all destructive cults it is so very difficult to reconcile that leaving was indeed the ‘right’ thing to do when the indoctrination is telling you all the same rubbish told you by RealLove. You really do struggle with worrying that you ‘are’ a victim, were not taking RealLove seriously enough (which was why you think it probably didn’t work so well for you), that you were ‘believing the lies’ of others (the insane outsiders), that you weren’t listening and doing what you were ‘told’ to do, that you were half-hearted and not being ‘fearless’ enough. But then that part deep within that has been suppressed and overshadowed by the cult personality wants to come through again because that’s the ‘real’ you, and it can’t stay shut down forever without it causing some form of long-term mental and psychological damage. You also know it’s going to be a very long and disturbing journey ahead of piecing life and your psyche back together again when you’ve totally lost all sense of who you actually were ‘before’ RealLove. But you ‘know’ you’ve GOT to do it. You’ve GOT to stick it out and NOT cave in and go back (despite any pressure or coercion). And then you remember something from long, long ago. Something about being told that RealLove would ‘deconstruct your ego’ and then ‘rebuild you’. And you realise what an incredibly outrageous and dangerous thing to do. And how come you realise how hard that road ahead is going to be. Has anyone else left this despicable destructive cult and gone through a same or similar experience like this?

Real Love is not ‘Coaching’ or ‘Mentoring’

RealLove swears it is not a cult, and most certainly not a destructive cult. It is quite certain about this, and in video ‘chats’ by cult leader and guru Greg Baer he tells people in no uncertain terms that his RealLove has been called a cult many times, he laughs as he tells watchers that it’s most definitely not a cult and is only perceived to be by people who are ‘empty and afraid’ because they don’t know how to love and haven’t been loved before – obviously the RealLove way. He, and of course his minions (in the form of mummies and daddies, wise men and wise women etc.), all vociferously state that RealLove is merely ‘coaching’ people in how to ‘be loving’, how to ‘love people unconditionally’, how to ‘learn to accept love’, and so on. Another post on this thread states very clearly how RealLove is most definitely NOT a therapeutic and healthy ‘helping’ profession, and goes on to clearly define the many reasons why, even though this is exactly what it is doing in many ways. Yet, if RealLove states it is ‘coaching’ while facilitating itself as a helping profession in the way it delivers this so-called ‘coaching’ then maybe it needs to be determined whether or not it is coaching as opposed to being the therapeutic helping profession which it presents as.

RealLove categorically states that it is a ‘coaching’ program that person’s sign up to. As defined by many of the leavers on the various threads on this Forum and elsewhere across the internet, it is clear that this is not a coaching program at all, and if it is, it is not a normal one by any stretch. Firstly, the definition of ‘coaching’ is basically a process that sets out to train, instruct, or teach. This is achieved by the giving of instructions as to what to say or do in a particular situation and to give someone professional advice on how to attain their goals (or whatever it is the coaching is offering). As testified on this Forum this giving of ‘instructions’ turns out to be a lot more than providing helpful information, advice and guidance! The writing down of ‘exactly’ what to say or do is not exactly coaching in any professional setting. Being told who you should talk to, not talk to, what you should do, wear, who you should date, etc. all remove any form of self-empowerment - which is the key thing that persons go to a coach for in the first place.

Coaching is also a process that happens for a short period of time, follows a structured format and has a formal and professional approach. The idea is the improvement of something, one’s performance at something or an aspect of their self that impacts that person’s life or job in some way. The sole focus is the improvement in the behaviours and performance that will resolve the present issues or ways to handle specific aspects within a person’s life. Coaching is goal focused and solution focused and a competent and trained coach has the ability to elicit clear, well-defined and emotionally engaging goals – which is one of the most important skills a coach can possess. A good coach offers support and assistance to those they are coaching in order to help them implement positive change towards achieving their desired goals. The process of coaching has the sole aim of improving performance of an aspect of self, and which focuses on the ‘here and now’ rather than on distant past and future. Coaching thus is designed not just as personal empowerment but as a way of unlocking a person’s potential to maximise their own performance or personal aspects of self without the need for a coach, once the process is complete. Basically, coaching is helping a person to learn for their self rather than ‘teaching’ them something.

This is where it all gets a bit murky with RealLove because it doesn’t fit the profile of actually being about coaching at all. I believe this has been mentioned previously on this Forum by others too. Firstly, it’s a process that those trapped in RealLove as well as those who left it after many years have all stated is ‘lifelong’ rather than short-term. Secondly, the goal of being more loving never seems to be achieved, there is always another program, another workshop, another intervention, another or different coach, that books have to be read again, that one needs to keep watching ‘GregChat’ videos as much as possible because somehow the person is not taking RealLove seriously, not trying hard enough, or is ‘being a victim’. Third, there are no well-defined and clear goals to work towards – and what goals are there seem to keep changing or are moved. Many feel that they did not get the support and assistance that they thought they would –they felt they were always blamed and shamed, not good enough, not trying hard enough and only had the same limited dialogue all the time. There is also a hugely abnormal focus on the distant past – particularly childhood – and people’s whole life from childhood is totally drawn out and analysed through the ‘intervention’ process, and will often keep being brought up time and again during the so-called coaching process. Often this knowledge seems to be held as some form of leverage or ammunition against the person to remind them of who’s boss, why they need coaching, that they are not trying hard enough, being a victim etc. rather than just used as a background reference point to help the person. There is, as with all destructive cults, an over-emphasis on the past. The future is brought up too. But not as something close by and attainable; no, as something that is allusive and distant unless one works harder and does what they are told, keeps following RealLove and all that it offers (at great financial expense!). RealLove does not unlock anyone’s potential. In fact it shuts a person’s potential and positive feelings about the self completely down. There is a notion coached into adherents that the real or true self is being shut down while going through the RealLove coaching process and will be activated later on …… in the future…. when you are deemed to be qualified to love other people. But, this potential never comes to fruition. One’s innate talents, abilities, potentials and gifts are never explored and brought to the surface because it’s all about REAL LOVE. Does RealLove coaching work to maximise the individuals’ own potential regarding their being coached into being a more loving person, or indeed learning to be ‘unconditionally loving’ (the RealLove way of course!).

Do person’s doing this coaching end up being the person they thought they were going to be when they engaged in this so-called ‘coaching’? It seems that practically everyone that goes into it doesn’t leave it. They all need a coach for life and never seem to be getting anywhere nearer to the goal. Not only that, but given all the horrendously ‘unloving’ things they have been mind-controlled into doing, many seem to have ended up becoming an ‘unloving’ selfish-centred person who cannot actually love or accept being able to be loving or kind to anyone not doing RealLove – which his cross purposes to what coaching is about and not just looking, but behaving exactly as a brainwashed and entranced member of a destructive cult. It seems then that the RealLove ‘coaching’ method – which is a completely made up process by leader and guru Greg Baer, and not founded on genuine coaching processes or tools – is not about empowering people to learn for themselves and go off into their life and have total control and understanding of what they’ve been coached in. No, it seems that this so-called coaching is more about being a ‘teaching’ process than about it being a learning process. There is a difference, an important difference which defines what’s going on here very clearly.

Teaching is the process of inculcating moral values, abilities, knowledge, skills, ideologies, principles, laws, regulations – as well as dogma and doctrine – by an experienced (trained) person in order to ensure positive or relevant change in behaviours, values, standards, attitudes and knowledge. In the process of ‘teaching’ ideas or principles are taught by an authority in order to educate and impart knowledge, skills and understanding. And this seems exactly what the RealLove so-called coaching process is about – not coaching, but outright ‘teaching’ of its ideology. Not about self-empowerment, but subservience to the RealLove way. Not the achievement of goals or the solutions to issues and problems, but instead dependence and addiction to the RealLove ‘loving’ process. Not a focus on the ‘here and now’ but total constant reminders of a distant past and emphasis on a golden future (that just doesn’t ever get one iota nearer). Not anything about learning how to fulfil the goals and handle the present issues, but instead to be reliant on another human being to make your decisions, choose your words and actions, and organise your life for you. This is clearly a method of teaching that is utilised to create dependence and addiction to RealLove, to create a cult adherent and a customer for life. Teaching is the tool used to do this, as coaching certainly has a totally different emphasis than the implementation of dogmatic knowledge given by person’s who will always be on a pedestal way ahead and always knowing more, while you seem to feel you know nothing at all and feel subservient to such persons. This isn’t even looking up to and admiring a good teacher or good teaching, this is being enamoured of someone who has something you want to attain, of which you seem never to get any closer despite all the teaching, the coaching or whatever.

One could say that this process engaged in could be like a mentoring relationship. Indeed, mentoring is a long-term arrangement between the mentor and the mentee; but the difference here is that it is a two-way ‘mutually beneficial’ relationship. And this is clearly not what the RealLove so-called coaching process is all about either. Adherents speak highly and romantically about their ‘coach’ (whom they call their daddy or their mummy) and of how this person guides their life for them, and that without them they would not know what to do. That’s interesting, because neither genuine coaching or mentoring creates this type of reliant relationship. But this does beg the question as to whether this so-called coaching or so-called mentoring is actually something else – given the amount of reliance and dependence on it. Is it therapy? Is it helping? Is it actually counselling, psychotherapy or some other form of therapy? It does seem a lot like this when you witness the state of being of the adherents of this process, and what it has done to those who leave after many years of indoctrination and entrapment.

While leader and guru Greg Baer states emphatically that any form of mental health therapy, counselling, psychotherapy, hypnotherapy or other forms of therapeutic help are absolutely useless and serve no purpose whatsoever, it does seem that this so-called coaching/mentoring process is very much some form of mental health therapy. Certainly, these ‘interventions’, the coaching sessions, the groups and the ‘baby holding’ are all methods that dig into and work on the psyche, the mind, which is something coaching and mentoring does not do. But clearly, methods that are focused entirely on the mind and our thoughts are indeed a form of mental health therapy. The very fact of leader and guru Greg Baer’s use of AA ideology and processes in the creation of his concept of ‘Truth-Seen-Accepted-Loved’ as the basis for all the so-called ‘loving groups’ is indeed a fundamental form of therapy – something Baer discounts and does not believe in, and which he tells his future and current believers is a waste of time, because only RealLove will work. But, in his dismissing any form of bona fide therapy and stating that it is only the love that is missing from our lives that is causing all our ills and mis-perceptions, Baer draws folks to him and his RealLove process that he states will heal us all – healing being therapeutic, our mind and misperceptions being of our mental health. Reality is, no one ever gets qualified to love. No one ever leaves the process all empowered and able to function in unconditional love, and having experienced what goes on in this cult, and engaged with many within it and leavers, I can state that they are indeed dabbling in mental health therapy but calling it coaching. But then again, it’s not coaching or indeed mentoring either. It does seem to be a conglomeration of all these aspects with the mummies and daddies, wise people and other authorised RealLove officials using whatever approach they deem right at the time to keep their RealLove babies (cult members) entranced and staying within the fold, in the little RealLove family. Yet professionally, in the real world, none of these processes are mixed up like this. Each is normally what it is and sets out to do. Each is not anything else other than what it is. Coaching is a process of coaching only. Mentoring is about mentoring only. Therapy is about the therapeutic process being applied only. Teaching is about teaching whatever it is being taught. And mind-control (aka brainwashing, coercive persuasion, thought reform, undue influence etc.) is about using various techniques unknown to the member that gradually control their willpower, thoughts, feelings, behaviours, attitudes etc. towards doing anything they are told to do as well as maintaining a total subjection to the cult and its ideology. So what do we have here with RealLove?

Indeed, RealLove is not only applying teaching methods to instil the knowledge, principles, laws, dogma and doctrine of RealLove, but they are using it through inter-relatedly through use of coaching and mentoring as well as mental health therapeutic processes. It’s a mish-mash of all these things rather than being just what it says it is. Teaching is applied in all situations – from the books to the video chats, from meetups and loving groups to interventions, from programs and workshops, from phone calls to conference calls to the special closed facebook pages to keep everyone on the same page all the time. The teaching is used to indoctrinate not empower. The teaching is used to instil and embed RealLove principles and laws rather than to focus on goals and achieve them. The teaching is used to keep people in line, to stay focused always on RealLove rather than to elicit any form of engaging and clearly defined improvement. The teaching is used to keep reminding members about their distant pasts, their problems, their issues, their so-called flaws, faults and imperfections (which everyone else calls ‘differences’) and about some magical pixie-dust future where they will be an unconditionally loving person when they have ‘done the work’ and been ‘qualified to love’ rather than focusing on what needs to be done in the present, unlocking their potential and maximising the individuals own unique aspects of self. The teaching is used to keep control of members so that they will always be following and focusing on what RealLove wants to focus on and telling members how they are not trying hard enough, not taking RealLove seriously and that it won’t work if they don’t stop ‘being a victim’ all the time – instead of actually offering the genuine support, encouragement, information, assistance and guidance that the person needs in their life. This teaching is all about maintaining cult membership and not about anything positive, enriching or life inspiring for the person to grasp hold of, aspire to, and achieve on their own steam.

So, all in all RealLove advertises and promotes that it is ‘coaching’ – but it’s not coaching that is going on, although coaching elements are used. RealLove sells the idea of the mummy or daddy coach as being a type of mentoring parent figure who is one’s guide, but not in a two-way mutually beneficial relationship. Instead, this is a one-way relationship that is touted as being beneficial ‘only’ to the adherent and not to the coach/mentoring parent figure – even though that person is being paid. The adherent is regularly reminded that their coach/mentoring parent figure is only ‘doing everything’ for the adherents benefit, that they ‘don’t have to do this’ and are ‘only doing this for the adherents benefit’. Therefore, to all intents and purposes it appears like a mentoring process when in fact it is a directed teaching process. And finally RealLove clearly states that therapeutic psychological help is complete nonsense and useless and of no help at all, while simultaneously providing such mental health behavioural changes without the person’s knowledge or consent.

When they say ‘It’s not a cult’ you can be safely assured that it most definitely ‘Is A Cult’.