Today i found two videos: one with a respected Indian late Advaita teacher and another from Moo with entourage. Just observe teaching style, content, personalities and how they express themselves. See for yourself:

[vimeo.com]

the second with moo is from a past satsang to be found fresh on facebook page NO RAMANA MAHARSHI LINEAGE

Forgot to say:

on same Facebook page NO RAMANA MAHARSHI LINEAGE

you will find an interesting excerpt/article from a guy who wrote a book "The Odyssey of Enlightenment" and was amongst Papaji's students supposedly enlightened;

Sahara71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I have said so myself- I don't think there is
> anything especially suspect about the process
> of self-inquiry. This process does not belong
> to Tony and he teaches it very ineptly- but still,
> people may get something out of it.
>


Yes, we have something similar to self inquiry in most paths, for the very advanced seekers, and a teacher, who would be in close contact with the disciple and is very aware of the disciples progress, would reveal the final teachings to them.The teacher would know if the student is "ripe". This is the "normal process" and it totally makes sense.

Because if you start too early and you have not dealt with lots of other stuff before within your system, this final teachings can be harmful, as you break down your person too early and this can lead to being in passive limbo state or even worse (depression etc). Of course we live in an age, where everything is available and I would also not recommend to hide teachings, but in my opinion the damage that can be done with this is underrated. Sorry if I repeat myself. But there has to be more awareness about this.


A traditional teacher-student relationship is where the teacher only has few students and knows them very well. The student speaks regulary one -one with the teacher and NOT in satsang with 500 people and the world watching online as well. This in itself is not healthy.

And yes, if one has a solid foundation, these satsangs, pointings, self inquiry etc are powerful and great. But the masses who are attracted nowadays to these teachings, do not have the foundation.

Thank you Valma for pointing out the video on No Ramana lineage...I remember sitting in this satsang, when he said that and while I was still part of this circus, this felt so off. I think it was around the same time, when m told several people in sahaja, that they are no longer allowed/or should not wear ramana mala, BUT HIS MALA.

Ananas wrote:

Quote

A traditional teacher-student relationship is where the teacher only has few students and knows them very well. The student speaks regulary one -one with the teacher and NOT in satsang with 500 people and the world watching online as well. This in itself is not healthy.

Am starting to think a good term for a guru who attracts large numbers of students and draws lots of visitors would be to call this person a "Destination Guru" or "Tourist Guru"

"(Dude, Mate, Bro, Girl) you gotta take take a look at Guru so and so! The scene around him is amazing!"

Even if a guru has a few students, if that guru attracts a mass influx of day trippers, curiousity seekers, this turns a guru set up hazardous and corrupt:

A guru who has failed to examine and learn from the history of the guru profession, failed to recognize that the guru business on a mass scale always leads to corruption is a guru who is:

* Naive and exploitable.

* So narcissistic as to believe they are immune to temptation.

Lets imagine there exists a guru who is hypothetically, incorruptible by large numbers of students, large amounts of money, and large numbers of cute young students. The guru may be incorruptible, the guru's entourage will be corrupted.
The guru likely has relatives and they are corruptible.

In an area where mass numbers of students and tourists come to visit a Mega Guru, corruption sets in, corruption that a genuinely wise and holy guru
would want to avoid.

A guru who becomes a tourist magnet brings trouble to the locale and in Corboy's opinion corrupts the area.

* The local economy is distorted and stressed. A tourist industry corrupts
the locality. Tourists (long term and day trippers) need bus services, taxi service, housing, they bring money, foreign tourists bring hard currency that has greater purchasing power than the local currency.

* Tourists want alcohol and drugs. Some tourists want to get laid. An large influx of non local punters will bring in trouble.

* Non affluent locals are priced out of property adjacent to the ashram. If the ashram is in a lawless area, local mafia may scare non affluent locals off their property to free it up for real estate development.

* All major pilgrimage sites are renowned for scams and rip offs.

If the guru permits publicity, allows visits from curiosity seekers and large numbers of students and the area becomes a boom town, such as Tiruvannamalai became thanks to the Advaita Tourist industry, local supplies of water may be depleted.

* Tourists erode local culture and tourists attract scam artists. Local children may be tempted to play at
begging money and sweets and get attracted to the scam culture that develops at an ashram boom town.

A genuinely wise guru *would be aware of all this* and avoid ever becoming a destination guru.

The guru risks exhaustion and burnout from large numbers of students and thus
arises need for the guru to put in structural safeguards for his or her privacy.

When a guru/teacher accumulates many students, access to the guru becomes difficult, and competition arises.

Those who control access to the teacher become powerholders and are at as high risk of corruption as the guru.

In front of large audiences, ego comes into play.

We want to impress and we fear being laughed at.

Large groups have a corrupting effect.

This emphasizes what Ananas has written: the traditional student teacher
set up was private, with a teacher and just a few students.

Problems that arise when a satsang teacher gathers a large number of students
and the Q&A is in public in front of that large group:

You want to avoid seeming stupid if your questions are laughed at as elementary.

If student teacher conversations are in public, there's temptation to frame your questions intelligently, so as to impress the audience, along with the teacher.

What if you're in love with someone and hope he or she will like you better if
you phrase your questions "intelligently" or in a witty manner to raise a laugh?

Two, suppose some students dislike each other or are competing for the same
cute girl or cute bloke? If satsangs are large and public, the students may try to come up with smart questions and hide their ignorance so as to out perform each other and win favor.

IMo any guru or satsang teacher who uses the large audience format is set up for trouble.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2019 12:59AM by corboy.

Just watched that video of that old deluted m claiming to be the message of Ramana and Shankara.

I remember that speech, and even then I thought man what’s going on?...

It’s funny how he ends that dictatorial speech: „it’s not arrogance because I have the courage to say what I am! I have to say this on your behalf.... you are too slow, you are so apologetic“

Wow wow wow again old moo is doing the world a favor and we just don’t get it! Lol

Jesus Christ! please spare us of this Stalin incarnation.

All his videos should come with a big warning sign!
„Watch with caution, danger of mind control and group manipulation“



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2019 12:33AM by Joyfree.

Heart broken students from Monte Sahaja Portugal left rudderless without Moo are like a baseball.

A satsang ashram in Spain is like a catcher's mitt.

Barcelona is a hugely popular tourist destination.

And...do not forget that Ibiza (Spanish Balearic Islands) draws spiritual
aspirants from all over the world. Ibiza is a major node in the global nomad
travel network. Lots of traffic back and forth between Ibiza, Goa -- and Pune, where the Rajneesh/Osho ashram is situated.

The Rajneesh/Osho sanyassins played a major role in the drug culture of the Ibiza scene.

Specifically, MDMA, the love drug, so popular at Goa/Ibiza parties and clubs.

[www.google.com]

That video from No Ramana Maharshi Lineage is off the charts insane!
"I AM their message right now" it's not arrogance"

This is what he says:

"I am going to bring you the message of Ramana Maharshi, I’m going to bring you the message of Shankara, which is not only just a message, I AM their message right now! And I’m not afraid to say that, that is not pride, I don’t say it as pride, but someone has to have the courage to say. Because somebody asked my what is your Master’s highest teaching, I said ‘I AM MY MASTERS HIGHEST TEACHING’. I have to say, it sounds arrogant, but it’s not arrogance because I have the courage to say what I AM, OK?.... so I have to say this on your behalf, because... because you’re afraid to say it! And it’s not, ok because you say it you’re it, it’s not that. It has to be experienced. And I wait on you too long, you’re too slow, you’re so apologetic.”

It's simply bizarre... On one hand he insanely claims to BE "the living message" of Ramana Marshi and Shankara, and "his Master's highest teachings." He then has the nerve to state this is not arrogant, and a split second later proves he is nowhere near understanding or living the message of any of these people by blatantly displaying even further arrogance with: "You're afraid to say it", "I wait on you too long", "You're too slow", "You're so apologetic".

Such narcissistic, arrogant, condescending, b.s. would never come out of the mouth of anyone that had even a small understanding of Ramana or was even half-awakened.

To make even worse, his people (as has been mentioned on this forum), are all too ready with cameras in devotees faces to capture any overt display of emotion, so the videos can include that as "proof" of his "greatness."

I'm rather disgusted by this video. I hope it is shared far and wide so people can see his true colors. People need to RUN from this fraud.

Indeed insane, that video! Over the top narcissism on full display.

Jim Baker, leader of the Source Family cult, had a similar justification of his God-status, something along the lines of "Somebody's got to have the courage to stand up and be God and I'm the only who has that courage." It's in the documentary The Source Family (which btw is too uncritical and takes his lies about his past at face value IIRC).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2019 03:29AM by zizlz.

Yes clearvision! It is insane!

But this video is recorded some years ago, now he has „advanced“ from the message to being God, as we saw in the recent Easter video, that was taken off short after. Now he is proclaiming himself to be God.

Wondering what’s next....