NoWayNowhere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bodhi68, ............................... You claim that the
> statements in the Bescofield article are not true
> and just rumors.How do you know that? Could you
> say something more detailed about that......

OK. So I'll comment on some of the claims in the BeScofield article.

What I can say about this is that I can clearly identify some points in that article from my own experience as lies. I can't say anything about other things from direct experience because I wasn't there.

Between 2016 and 2017 I attended 2 retreats in Sahaja and once participated in a Seva period.

1 "And for members who do act out, Mooji has designated a place to serve as an isolation building. They will receive only one meal a day and learn to “know the self.”

There is no isolation house or place in Sahaja where people are detained with a meal a day.

2 "Strange ceremonies and rituals including exorcism type events occur at the center."

What is the definition of strange ? Is singing Bahjans or meditating strange ? I have never seen exorcism type events happening.

3 "Followers believe Mooji to be God and refer to him as “my Lord,” “my Master” and “my Father.” They regularly kiss his “holy” feet and bow to him."

Yes there is a lot of devotion towards Mooji as the Guru but i never met anybody believing him to be God.Nobody kisses his feet and often Mooji asks people to please also not to touch his feet. Some followers in devotion would love to do this but Mooji won't allow it.He allowed that kind of expression from time to time in the past.But for many years this is not happening anymore

4 "They allege sleeping with students, abuse such as screaming, shouting, shaming and humiliating, controlling behavior, pairing and breaking up couples, brainwashing and mind control, coercing people from leaving and more."

From my own experience when i was there nothing like this was ever noticed.
You may see or meet Mooji from time to time passing by or having a tea in one of the cafes there. Mostly surrounded by his closer stuff or giving short talks or advice to some students. Never saw him screaming, shouting or being nasty in any way.

So these are the points I would call lies from my own experience.

Based on the obvious lies plus my personal experiences i would say also the rest of that article is
just collected gossip and unproven stories to spice it up and make it look more profound.

I mean, look at BeScofield's business, she's built her entire career and reputation on exposing fake and abusive gurus, and of course Mooji is a big fish in her business plan.

Finally,I like to say this.

I won't go there anymore because
there are more and more people in that place who simply see much more in Mooji than he is. Lots of worshipping very much devotion.

For me he is a finger pointing to the moon, but not the moon you have to travel to yourself, all by yourself.

But this is a development of the Sangha around him. If I would criticize something about Mooji, it would be that he does not stop this development.

Thanks to all

Bodhi

I will address some of the things Bodhi expresses as lies from my own experience.

I only went to one retreat at Sahaja and it was my only time in Mooji's presence.

1). Exorcism. It's a matter of watching some of his satsang videos and you will notice 'strange' things and exorcism type behavior by M. I specifically remember that happening at the first OSG in 2017 at the end of one of the first satsangs. There were 2-3 people freaking out and M would 'exorcise' them.

2) Belief that M is God. When a sangha member from here went to her first Zmar retreat, she came back saying "Mooji is God!!!!" I didn't feel he was God when I was there, but he does have that aura that famous people do, which I believe comes from the adoration of others. Such adoration was observed at MS.

3) Sex with Devotees. In my mind, there's no doubt about this. Several have argued that it's okay for 2 consenting adults, but I draw the line when it's an old guy with a young woman who will do anything for her guru. This is abuse! When I was there, I had a rather strange encounter with M (which I won't go into detail about here), where I felt a powerful masculine and sexual energy coming from him. I remember commenting on this that night to a friend.

I hosted and organized the sangha where I live, was very devoted to the teachings, but now I can't stand to even hear him. It's like the veil of illusion has been lifted and I see him for who he really is. I am grateful to him for what I learned, but to be honest, it's hard to recall what that even is! Mostly I am grateful to M for pointing me to a guru-free path and my delusion that I needed one.

Peace!

Bodhi, you are not well educated on how cults and in this case the M cult operates AT ALL, so I will not further discuss with you but give information for others.



This thread was started with the question "is M a cult" and since it started many people came here and reported what they have experienced, seen and witnessed. So the question has long been answered and for those who are open for the painful truth ( at least for me it was very painful to realize the betrayal, lack of integrity and abuse from M) they can find enough "material" here in this now 180pages.


So if a person comes here saying that Be's article and all the reports here are lies, rumors and that only devotion and bajan singing is part of cultish behaviour in M's cult, he or she has no clue on how cults run and operate and is still part of the cult. How could this person be a reliable source to find out about the cult?



People who come here to end the "just mere Mooji bashing by some people" and claim to be objective but dismissing everything that MANY other people have reported here or gave as information to Be Scofield, is simply arrogant.
More hubris: "I don’t know Ananas if you ever have meditated or listened to any guided meditation but all these long discussions about hypnotherapy techniques, trance, etc.. look like posted by someone who has actually no idea what meditating means." Yes, many people here, me included, have 30/40/50 years of experience on tha path with all kinds of meditation. Even the dead heron story was confirmed here by at least 2 people here.



And talking about silencing others opinions and reports: M and his team is doing that everywhere on the internet threatening people with law cases. They have tried many times to come here as well and will try again and again. My advice: do not listen to them.




Which levels of closeness do we have in M's cult?



1. people who know M via internet or books
2. people who came to one or more retreats but do not make it to sahaja
3. people who have spent short time in sahaja and then go home and have a job etc
4. people who have been coming for seva more often and longer periods but still have a job and a home somewhere else
5. people who have been living around sahaja for years, have houses there, go to sahaja regularly (working, satsangs) but have money to support themselves (retirement, making money from renting to other devotees etc)
6. people who have left everything (job, home, family) and live in sahaja and are totally dependant on M
7. from the people of category 6 some get closer, have more important jobs, spend more time with M in very small gatherings
8. the close circle: his entourage, the bodyguards, those who know about the finances of the organization and about everything M is doing day and night



So if a person has entered level 3 and really thinking he/she KNOWS whats going and that he/she has seen behind the scenes there, is just more hubris and arrogance.


For M people get intereting from level 6 onwards.( Exception: if you have lots of money, young or retired, then you get special treatment in levels under 6) Those who give up everything to live with him, get sooner or later (depends on how long your money savings last) totally dependant on him. Then it's easy.



I also see that M's success machine is still "on" with 2 Zmars now. I do not know how many people attended Lisbon intensive and it could be that was not a correct information. But that is a small detail and of no matter to the overall problems existing with M and his organization.

I listened to Mooji for some years and I am thankful for this time. I do not know, whether the statements about him are true or false, so I pefer not to judge.

I stopped listening to Mooji after I bought the "invitation to Freedom" CD. Listening to it for quite a while, once there was confusion. Because, although being convinced of the truth at the end of the invitation, next time it starts with the same words again: "You say, you want to wake up to the truth. "

There was a feeling of going backwards and forwards. Same, when watching satsang. Mooji, trying to convince and again doubts appearing from someone.

Therefore, I decided to go on my own, better leave all doubts behind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2019 07:35PM by JDecosta.

One more note: I have compassion for everyone still trapped in M's cult (including M himself). Been there, done it, did not want to hear when others were pointing out obvious flaws, ignored red flags for a long time. And as said, its painful to see the truth, admit that one has fallen for a big lie and it takes quite a while to get out and heal. It might seem easier to put others down just to be able to keep up the image of M as a fully realized guru. But it is possible to "awake" and get out.



When people say: "M's teachings are so great". The teachings are ancient and found very pure, direct and clear in the scriptures, ancient masters (Shankar, Buddha, Ashtavakra Gita, Baghavad Gita etc) or Ramana and Nisargadatta and others. The back and forth in M's teachings, the obvious non-ability to guide people further, who had some sort of awakening/seeing, or just when M had led someone "into the self", he would right there start to talk about the ego and its traps for 15min just to distract the person and everyone else again. Yes confusion is a good word for it. And this is very obvious in M's satsangs, everyone can see it, this part is NOT hidden like many others. There is no need for having M as a teacher. The pointings can be found in many places, very pure and clear.

Ananas :"This thread was started with the question "is M a cult" and since it started many people came here and reported what they have experienced, seen and witnessed. So the question has long been answered and for those who are open for the painful truth ( at least for me it was very painful to realize the betrayal, lack of integrity and abuse from M) they can find enough "material" here in this now 180pages."

Yes, there are already 180 pages and a large part of them has been dominated by about 5-6 people whose opinions have already been established.Maybe one should re-examine every single story and try to find some evidence for the stories and claims instead of repeating again and again the same unproven stuff.

I really didn't intend to take on the role of a Mooji defender when I first took part here.
I just liked to talk about a few things that bother me that I don't find ok regarding the Mooji group. But trying to spread only a negative distorted picture of Mooji and the Mooji Sangha I have to contradict.

The more I read here also the older posts and in which direction this thread has developed I can't help but disagree.

In the past, many here who would not agree with this one-sided portrayal and the assertions were treated as a Mooji trolls ,brainwashed sheep or still be part of the cult.

As an example just this little dead Heron story.

So 2 anonymous people confirmed here in an internet forum that Mooji odered somebody to shoot a Heron who was just getting his lunch because he liked more his fish to survive.
And also these people know that it was a female Heron who wanted to feed her babies.

Oh,what a hartbreaking story just tailor maid to expose evil Mooji.

So by the way does anybody know these witness any names,functions in the cult position? He ? Nothing ?? Ahh,i see they are too afraid because the "Moo gang" would be after them to silence them.

Yes, then it MUST BE TRUE for sure.


In the end of these stories,when somebody asks about a proov or a name who witnessed it ,it is often claimed that the witnesses are too afraid of the Mooji gang to reveal their names.

So we are supposed to just believe what they say without knowing them, without proof without sound recording or documents.We are supposed to just believe that Mooji is a narcissistic evil as****le who has hundreds and thousands of people under his control through his manipulative abilities and hypnosis techniques.

Ok,Ananas be free to believe all these stories without any proof.You may do that, but to sell it as a universal truth and convince others to do the same. You have to expect contradiction as well.


And what about all those who are positive about Mooji. All just blinded cult members in your opinion? I find that quite arrogant of you to want to overturn your own disappointment about Mooji to those who are not disappointed.

I better stop writing for today because I realize that I'm getting really angry about it and that doesn't let me stay objective anymore.

Thank You for listening

May there be peace ... Ohmm Shanti

Bodhi

Thanks Ananas for making these important points! You wrote:

"When people say: "M's teachings are so great". The teachings are ancient and found very pure, direct and clear in the scriptures, ancient masters (Shankar, Buddha, Ashtavakra Gita, Baghavad Gita etc) or Ramana and Nisargadatta and others. The back and forth in M's teachings, the obvious non-ability to guide people further, who had some sort of awakening/seeing, or just when M had led someone "into the self", he would right there start to talk about the ego and its traps for 15min just to distract the person and everyone else again. Yes confusion is a good word for it. And this is very obvious in M's satsangs, everyone can see it, this part is NOT hidden like many others. There is no need for having M as a teacher. The pointings can be found in many places, very pure and clear."

Indeed! He's only sharing what is very old wisdom, and willingly allowing people to think this wisdom "came" from him, and that he is therefore a "master." A good example would be the "two birds" story he has been trotting out lately... This story was in the Rig Veda samhita 1.164.20-22, (over 4 thousand years ago!) Mundaka Upanishad 3.1.1-2, and Svetasvatara Upanisad 4.6-7

You're spot on with your statement that there is no need to have M, or as I prefer - "Tony from Brixton" as a teacher. This same wisdom can be read, or delievered infinitely more clearly by living teachers that are actually Self Realized... He is clearly not! Completely regardless of the sexual allegations, it is indeed a cult of personality. He is not taken seriously by other spiritual teachers. Many of these teachers are the ones that are now having to help those that have been (I quote) "disillusioned and traumatized" by getting mixed up with him.

Bodhi68:

You do read like "a Mooji defender."

Otherwise why are you here?

Do you consider Mooji a destructive cult group?

Why or Why not?

What do you think is wrong with Mooji?

What needs to be changed?

What has Mooji done wrong that must be addressed and changed specifically?

Please answer these questions directly and succinctly since these questions are the actual focus of this thread not the people who post here.

If you don't directly answer these questions and are evasive anyone reading this thread must conclude you are here as "a Mooji defender."

And if that's your purpose please stop posting here.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/07/2019 06:04AM by rrmoderator.

Beware of trolls my friends...

After reading some posts on this thread...I can't help but think...this Mooji dude is a false teacher...a lot like James Swartz.

Piranhas everywhere...