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Byron Katie and dangerous NLP - Change Personal History [WARNING]
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: May 31, 2008 04:41AM

Thank you for posting this.
What Byron Katie is trying to do there is the old NLP hypnosis technique called "Change Personal History".

Search Google for: "Change Personal History"

This is just flagrant abuse, to try to force people to create Amnesia for possible trauma in their past.
Its abuse, and its quackery, and very dangerous especially when done with the context of the Byron Katie hypnotic system. This can be EXTREMELY DAMAGING.
Also, there is no evidence this method even works. It seems to backfire, in that not only do they retain the memories, they create another level of pathology about trying to deny it exists. So they get even more messed up, more depressed, more miserable.

Byron Katie is clearly trying to mess people up even more, so they will become more dependent on her.

Its like if you had an old house that needs repair, and you hire some unlicensed contractor who is a big talker. The contractor comes in rips your house apart, even starts removing walls and support beams, and altering the house FOUNDATIONS. Of course, the contractor demands CASH as he "Works" on the house.
Soon your "house" starts to fall apart, and even fall down due to the damage to the foundation beams.
Then the contractor just leaves town with the money in-pocket, and your house is falling down from the destruction. Then you are forced to live in a wrecked house for life, as no one else will buy it anymore. And spend a fortune trying to fix the damage.

Well, the "house" is your mind, and this is what Byron Katie is doing to it, ripping it apart right down to its foundation, with no regard for you. The more you "fall apart" the more dependant on her you become and the more money she makes.
Then you can go to her Turnaround house.
Just mortgage your home to get the money, they will refer you to a broker, be sure of that.

Byron Katie is one of the most damaging people out there in the New Age, because her audience seems to have no idea of anything she is doing.
How can that be?
How can people not see what she is doing, its so flagrant?
She is doing much of it right out in the open, but people are not paying attention. This seems to be due to her Targeting and blinding her target audience with Love Bombing.




Quote
question lady
I found this letter from a man thanking Katie for invalidating him when he shared his memories of childhood sexual abuse. He rejected her attempt to get him to convince himself that his inner truth was a lie, but is grateful to her for trying. This is creepy.

[www.thework.com]

Here is an excerpt:

Quote

The last part of our Work together that night was different, however. It was a healing, but in a different way. I mentioned that I do not recall some of the actual childhood abuse I experienced, which I believe to be sexual in nature: incest from my mother and/or my elder sister. I mentioned that “my body knows” what happened. Byron said, “It (the abuse) never happened,” and that “bodies don't know anything.”

What Byron said, did not and still does not make sense to me. It does not ring true. My body does know, and has shouted it to me for years. Only in recent years have I gotten past some of the denial (although not all the specific memories) to face my pain. Getting past the denial has been key to my healing, and speaking out loud, breaking the code of silence around the abuse, has been crucial to taking back my power and moving forward with my life.

In short, I felt very much invalidated with what I heard that night. I almost felt that I was saying or seeing something that Byron did not want to be said or seen. I do know that, to me, it did not feel quite like love...

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Re: Byron Katie and dangerous NLP - Change Personal History [WARNING]
Posted by: yg ()
Date: May 31, 2008 05:16AM

Quote
The Anticult
....

Byron Katie is one of the most damaging people out there in the New Age, because her audience seems to have no idea of anything she is doing.
How can that be?
How can people not see what she is doing, its so flagrant?
She is doing much of it right out in the open, but people are not paying attention. This seems to be due to her Targeting and blinding her target audience with Love Bombing.

Anticult, being someone who had this happen several times without ever meeting her ! I can tell you that the Love thing is a huge part of it. The part of it is that so many of the people that go to her are quite "ignorant" about all of this.

Consider that I who have been informed before and have been in various cults like TM, the cult-like friendship with my friend turned guru, Course in Miracles and the list is long. It all stems from my always looking for authority outside of myself, for Mommy and/or Daddy for answers. It is a very strong programming. Even after so much work and therapy etc. I came back for more in the last few months!

What was the difference this time? This time it didn't work for long, my body (that supposedly doesn't exist) nor longer likes to disassociated and in denial, because I know have felt being alive in my body and have not been living 24/7 in my head...my mind...my bliss disassociation from existing in my body as well as my mind.

I can tell you that it also feels sad as h-ll. I have lived this way for most of my life. It is flagrant only when you can recognize it but it is not that easy. I had seen some of this a few years ago and when I started looking at BK again, I had actually "forgotten" why I had left it all in the first place and all without meeting her!

The Guru Papers book had helped me a lot back in the day when I had the huge falling out with my friend turned guru. Recently I have been working with being in my body somatically. Once you wake up a little to the fact that you are also a body...an animal body! It doesn't seem to work to go back for long without the mind feeling it. I don't know if others have taken "trips" back into the control with teachers etc. I have several times since my first awareness of something was really wrong.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 31, 2008 05:50AM

Bodies know a great deal.

Its the basis of martial arts training and self defense workshops.

You train and train until you can do it automatically.

And there is a network of neurotransmitters in the gut that is so rich in neurotransmitter receptors that it has been termed 'the second brain.'

So far, there has been strong evidence relating gut digestive function to brain function.

But I can tell you of an incident when I was on service doing jury duty. It was a situation where my mind and my gut feelings were in profound conflict.

We jurors in this case were allowed to ask questions.

The defendent was on the witness stand. All at once, I had a question. But it seemed so stupid and simple that I didnt want to ask.

My head told me not to ask the question.

But I kept getting a strange, troubled sensation in my gut, as if someone
was jumping up and down demanding attention an impulse that said, 'Ask that question.'

My head centered mind kept saying, 'Its a stupid question, dont ask.' My gut kept giving me this troubled, haunting impulse that I ask the question.

Finally, with the mental feeling that I was a stupid idiot, I chose to obey my gut. I wrote down the question, handed it to the bailiff, and the bailiff handed it to the judge--who passed it to the defendant who was still on the witness stand.

The defendant responded to that question, giving an answer that included information that was new to me, totally unexpected---and that turned out to be of great importance when we as jurors sat and deliberated and reached our decision.

And there is the classic film, Double Indemnity, in which the insurance adjustor, Inspector Keys is under pressure to close the case, but he is convinced the case just isnt what it seems. He keeps investigating, the culprits screw up--and the case is revealed as murder--and justice is done.

Keys tells us throughout the film that he cant explain in any rational way why he is unable to close the case. He is troubled by a 'funny feeling'--a body sensation--that things are not as they seem.

No matter how we work on the brain-centered portion of the mind to trivialize or blank out certain matters--the body never forgets. All that sort of mental meddling does is generate added conflict between the mind that refuses to know and the body that still knows.

We dont yet have the science for this but plenty of us have had experiences that run counter to New Age assertions that reality can be wished away.

There is a line that is used to end Codependence Anonymous meetings:

'Knowing and remembering cannot be any worse than knowing and ... not remembering.'

Meanwhile, here are a few URLs on 'the second brain'

[www.asimplerway.com]

[www.cumc.columbia.edu]

[www.iht.com]

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Sallie ()
Date: June 01, 2008 07:24PM

Byron promises to eradicate memories of pain.
People don't like pain.
The problem is that pain serves as a warning. Remembering pain can help us be a help and a warning to others.
I often see young people in distress and am able to relate totally to their ''pain'' because I remember some of my own...hey...that's the source of empathy.
Empathy is good.
It is good to know that pain exists and to try to help others avoid what we've experienced.
Byron wants us to dissassociate(however spelled) from our own past and from others...she is CREATING sociopaths....
That's what all these new age gurus are doing.
The fact that I may have burned my hand on a stove for example, is not an experience that I NEED to disconnect from. It offers me a little wisdom. I can tell my kids ''don't touch the stove'' and I can describe in great, understandable, believable detail my own experience....and ya know what...they will now avoid the stove.
We are social, inter-dependent beings.
These gurus want to turn us into callous sociopaths.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: question lady ()
Date: June 02, 2008 01:39AM

I find it so bewildering that even though this guy, Roy, held on to his self knowledge and self-trust, despite Katie Byrons' attempt to undermine it, he still ended up being grateful for her. WTF?

Is she so good that people even end up thanking her for trying to mess with their minds?

Some of his key statements were:
Quote


I mentioned that “my body knows” what happened. Byron said, “It (the abuse) never happened,” and that “bodies don't know anything.”

What Byron said, did not and still does not make sense to me. It does not ring true. My body does know, and has shouted it to me for years.

I felt very much invalidated with what I heard that night.

Being human means validating the whole realm of emotions and experiences we create in our life, not discounting or ignoring or denying them.

The greatest lesson I received that night was taking back my power and trusting myself.

I will continue to do The Work, and I thank you for it, and this wonderful experience. Thank you!

Bless you,

Roy

And then in her reply, Byron tells him that she actually said something other than what he recalled, and suggests another reality replacement line and tells him to 'play with it'.

She loves that he took back his power despite her attempts to manipulate him? Is that an example of her turnaround?

"I love that you took back your power" "I hate that you took back your power" "You didn't take back your power"

Even her name is backwards.

Quote

Dearest Roy,

What I actually said and repeated was, 'Until I remembered, it didn't happen.' This is so hard to hear. Play with it, angel. And let you know what I meant by that. I love that you took back your power. Obviously that's where our friendship is so valuable.

Loving you,

kt

[www.thework.com]

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - making illegal mental health claims?
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: June 02, 2008 02:24PM

YG, you have an interesting insider perspective on this, thx for sharing your info.

I think everyone has their own unique vulnerabilities...some for "Love" others for money and power, and the LGAT New Wage Gurus exploit that.

As has been mentioned, Byron Katie is in the business of selling the IDEA of eliminating suffering.
Byron Katie knows that the human condition has a lot of pain and suffering in it.
For example, millions suffer from serious or moderate depression.
Byron Katie tells these people she can END THE SUFFERING.

But she can't. She is not telling the truth.
Even just believing you can completely end all human suffering is going to cause MORE suffering.

Byron Katie shows ZERO proof her methods work. Zero.
As a matter of fact, she appears to be making medical sounding claims like "eliminate depression" and is that not illegal, to do that? Its shocking she seems to be getting away with making those kinds of claims. Others have gotten into very serious trouble for making medical type claims.
Saying she can "Eliminate Depression" should be enough for Byron Katie to be put out of business right there. (this is all covered earlier in the thread).

If people have serious pain and suffering, they should seek out trained and accredited professional help.
Would you take a car to an unlicensed mechanic? No!
Would you fly in a plane with a pilot with no license? No!
You have to have a license to drive a cab or sell a hotdog....

But Byron Katie, without a license, can claim she can "eliminate depression" and she gets away with it? She is unregulated, so she can operate in the New Wage Wild West, where any Snake-Oil seller seems to be able to say anything they can get away with, and enough people believe them so they can rake in MILLIONS of bucks.

Byron Katie and Carol Skolnick make hypnotic suggestions that you will "fall in love at first sight" with Byron Katie. How perverse is that? A Guru you don't even know? Its all mental-emotional projection, and Byron Katie and Carol Skolnick know that, of course. They want you to "project love" onto BK.
Its a multimedia LoveBomb shock-n-awe to ensnare the lonely-hearts.

The irony is that Byron Katie is clearly NOT "loving" at all.
As Sallie mentioned, its sociopathic what they are really teaching, once you get into it.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - making illegal mental health claims?
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: June 02, 2008 07:48PM

Quote
The Anticult
But Byron Katie, without a license, can claim she can "eliminate depression" and she gets away with it? She is unregulated, so she can operate in the New Wage Wild West, where any Snake-Oil seller seems to be able to say anything they can get away with, and enough people believe them so they can rake in MILLIONS of bucks.
Byron Katie's extreme claim to "eliminate depression" was pointed out here months ago, then not long after that, we discovered that her website description of The Work had suddenly been changed to "alleviation of depression".

Fortunately we were able to document the sneaky change:

[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?12,12906,54042#msg-54042]Byron Katie's Changed Website Info[/url]]

In addition, some of us here saved the original web page on our hard drives, just in case it might come in handy some day.

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Byron Katie (the Work) -still making illegal mental health claims?
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: June 07, 2008 11:30AM

Yes, the Byron Katie company did change their claims one one of their webpages.

But the same outrageous, and possibly illegal claims are still being made on other webpages.
- Eliminate DEPRESSION
- Eliminate stress
- eventually never get angry?
__________________________________________
[www.thework.com]
Eliminate stress: Live without anxiety or fear
Reduce anger: Get angry less often and less intensely, and eventually not at all

Eliminate depression: See perfection in situations that were once debilitating
______________________________________________________

How can someone without any license, tell you they can CURE YOUR MEDICAL ILLNESS, and get away with it? Depression is classified a medical illness, and Byron Katie claims she can eliminate it.
That can't be legal, otherwise everyone would claim that, and make big money selling their quackery.

What about the Byron Katie booklets, recordings, and mirror websites that also make these claims?
Does no one watch over these people?
How about the FTC? It really is ridiculous they seem to be getting away with murder.



Cancer Cancer and more Cancer:

The Byron Katie blog sure loves to cash-in on the cancer manipulation sympathy-fear craze.
They posted an email from "M" about more cancer.
Byron Katie just can't get enough cancer cancer cancer.
But she must realize by now she has milked her own cancer cow maybe once too many.
So instead, just post emails (or fabricate them) from anonymous people, about cancer.

This is the targeting of people sick with cancer.They are desperate, and are willing to spend everything they have.


Another Basal Cell Carcinoma Story
[www.byronkatie.com]

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: SusanD ()
Date: June 16, 2008 07:23AM

Hi Everyone

I found this website and thread after starting to read Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell's book, A Thousand Names For Joy. Since reading through this thread, I wanted to share my experience of the Byron Katie trap (as I now call it). I believe that I am a person of average intelligence, skeptical, curious, non-religious, and usually enjoy researching every new subject that I am attracted to. Yet I admit that after reading Loving What Is and despite feeling uncomfortable about some of the therapy dialogue examples, I was hooked for months believing that BK's "new" way of thinking was the answer to my problems past, present and future, helped by the suggestion that I did not have a past or future according to BK!

Let me first say I have not lost any money to The Work, but I feel that it pulled the rug from under my feet in my outlook and am currently not sure if that was a good thing or not. However, reading on here, I do see that I am lucky to have "turned it around" and see that the organisation surrounding The Work seems totally profit-driven and therefore in complete contradiction to the persona Byron Katie presents.

I read "Loving What Is" at a time when I was looking for some relief/answers for a culmination of problems/events including several deaths by cancer of friends over a few years, and some other personal life issues. For me, the main attraction to BK's theories was the simplicity and the idea that changing your thinking could make your problems easier to cope with. I have always been a bit of a "runner" when things got bad. Flight or fight? - my genes seem to have got me here by "flight" every time! I turned each page of "Loving What Is" with glee as I had at last found someone who advocated sticking one's head in the sand as a good way to live one's life. At the time of reading, I had a major issue in my life where someone close lost us both a large amount of money in a poor investment choice. Easy, I just turned it around, saw it as my fault, lost attachment to the money and "voila" the problem was gone from my mind. I am still reeling that I could have fallen for this - which is why I am sharing here, as a warning to others.

When applying The Work in my own life, I found that there were a few "turnarounds" I could not do, but in the spirit of BK's writing, I blamed myself for not "getting" The Work fully. I started to explore her workshops on the website to see what else I needed to learn and was horrified at the costs. Alarm bells started ringing about my new "Guru" and her motivations. However, if money was no problem for me, I may have tried to attend one of her courses as I felt from what i read on the website, that I wasn't comprehending "something" about The Work fully and needed the missing piece of the puzzle, as I perceived it.

I have had an ongoing interest in Buddhism and when I saw that BK's latest book, A Thousand Names for Joy was "inspired by the age-old wisdom of the Tao Te Ching" I was immediately drawn to it. I think it is important to point out here that I now realise this link further validated BK in my mind. However, after a few chapters I just could not believe I was reading such dross. IMHO this book really highlights the nonsense being spouted. Each short chapter (I shall rename them Byron-Bytes!) is headed by a Tao quote followed by what is to me, the most incomprehensible drivel I have ever read. I am glad I got my book from the library! Yet take a look on Amazon and you will see many positive reviews, I guess by "her people" or those who believe what she says - talk about The Emperor's New Clothes.

In conclusion, there are two simple things in BK's first book that I think have helped me. First, I am now questioning my beliefs and negative thoughts, but not to the extent where I distrust my own judgement on everything (hence I am here!). Secondly, I realised that we can make ourselves miserable by allowing negative thoughts to dominate and replicate - but I guess I should have learnt that long before now. The rest of it, and in particular, BK's so called enlightenment, I am not taking on board. Except for the fact that she had a sudden realisation she could make a whole pile of cash from deluding people that they are deluding themselves. Back to reality for me today!!

Now if you got this far thank you, and I have a question. When I was first over-excited about The Work back in December, I sent close friends the link to her website and recommended them to read her book. I was very persuasive about it. Do you think I should contact these people and apologise and let them know my current feelings about The Work? It is certainly a lesson for me, but I wonder if I need to undo any bad I did with that recommendation.

SusanD.

PS I have not read all the pages on the thread, but JJ52 I can relate to your posts and thanks to everyone for sharing well-thought out opinions and experiences.

PPS Thank you for your website - I have already pointed someone in this direction who was trying to get me along to a "Landmark" meeting!! Do I have "Sucker" tattooed on my forehead??!!

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Byron Katie (the Work) 100-Day Facilitator Certification [DANGER]
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: June 16, 2008 12:47PM

Hi SusanD:

thanks for the excellent report. It explains clearly the process Byron Katie puts people through, from Targeting folks who are going through some tough times, Denial and Avoidance to dissociate from pain, Turnarounds that turn into excessive self-blame and self-downing which creates depression and drives people further into the Byron Katie system, exploitation of pain for massive profits, and the rest of it.

There seems to be no end to it, and they even have 100 day programs to lock people in for decades, even for life. Anyone who does the program being promoted below, could literally become a Byron Katie follower for LIFE, its beyond disturbing to the trained eye.

Byron Katie 100-Day Facilitator Certification Program (SERIOUS WARNING: this series of hundreds of hours of programs could ruin a person's entire life, and lead them into bankruptcy or worse, link provided for analysis only)
[www.instituteforthework.com]

This has all been very carefully planned, engineered and refined by Byron Katie and her advisors and business partners over 20 years. She is doing dozens of very common techniques on people, and even using NLP style "waking hypnosis" and suggestion on people, which include suggestions for enrolling your friends. Byron Katie calls it "Moving The Work" and she installs this in people's minds without their conscious awareness, as part of her Social Influence.

As far as contacting the people you referred to Byron Katie, probably the best response would be to do whatever you think is the right thing to do!!
:-)
I referred people to books about my LGAT of choice years ago, and since then have spoken to all those folks and explained in detail the gross deceptions within the organization. None of them that I know of went to those LGAT's after I spoke with them, and explained it. So that feels good, to know none of them went to the LGAT, just read the books. I was just totally honest with them, I explained how the hypnosis and persuasion works, and how the guy behind the LGAT is a bald-faced liar and hypocrite. They were shocked, but at least half of them said they thought he was a scammer from day 1.


- also please stay far away from Landmark!! There seems to be some evidence that Byron Katie took many techniques from Werner Erhard, who is the guy who created Landmark. They really are different heads of the same beast.

(one last aside, the idea that our "Thoughts-Cognitions" do impact our emotions are dealt with extensively and in a balanced and tested manner in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, CBT, and there are some good books by Dr. David Burns (Feeling Good Workbook), and also Dr. Aaron Beck that can be very helpful. But they are not at all the same as Byron Katie and The Work, even though some of BK's promoters say The Work is like CBT, its not.They only say that, same as they say its like The Tao...to try and get some credibility by false-association).

Byron Katie is an extremely deceptive, seductive, manipulative, dishonest, and dangerous New Age leader, running a fast growing personality cult around herself. A lot of people are getting seriously hurt, and then blaming themselves for it. Simple logic dictates there could be a lot of self-harming happening to those who try to do The Work and fail, as fail they must, as it does not work as advertised. The Work is a superhighway into very serious depression and extreme self-blaming.

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