Sorry, his last few posts have been fairly ridiculous flames.

If there was a misunderstanding it's done.

He will remain banned.

In the context of LGAT's and culty Guru's on this, the answer is a big NO.

Because the "ideas" are not given in an honest way. The reason is that these folks are highly skilled at deception.
Any professional liar will tell you, the best way to lie, is to tell mostly truth, and then just slip the lies in. Or to tell the Big Lie.

The example of Hitler actually proves that, as its due to his lies, that he duped the British and started WWII.
So lying matters.
Character matters.
Once you are caught in a series of lies, that's it, game over. Everything has to be verified first.

Again, many of the expert LGAT and culty New Age people, go to great efforts to act all buddy-buddy with people, but its being done as a SALES-TACTIC.

For example, Stever Robbins must be called out, and made to explain his hypocrisy in criticizing the book SHAM and giving it 1-Star for not having enough references, but giving Byron Katie 5 stars, when she has ZERO references.
Why?
Stever Robbins claims to be a personal "friend" of Byron Katie. Is he?
Was he hired by Byron Katie to teach her some advanced techniques? (he'll never tell anyway).
Why didn't he disclose his bias?

So this "make them feel like your friend" is very dangerous, as its a deliberate tactic. Its related to the Love-Bomb used in cults.
One could post in this thread, the specific text from various NLP based manuals, that show you EXACTLY how to make strangers feel like your Best Friend, or even "Soulmate".
Its all written out and carefully studied, and the public doesn't know anything about it.

It would not be surprising to find Stever Robbins is selling that exact product, one will have to take a look to see if that is the case.

Quote
iwrotesham
While I do agree that "befriending" is both possible and potentially dangerous, I have to admit that I've never quite understood why we naturally form some sort of identification between the speaker and what is spoken. ...
Another thing I don't understand--and this may rankle some of the folks here--but if Adolph Hitler or Charles Manson were to show up ...
--how is it even relevant that the speaker is Hitler or Manson? Who cares? Why do we get so hung up on the personalities? Even if the idea put forward is totally out of character with the way the person lives his life, or, hell, even if the person is actively stabbing someone as he writes his comment...again, who cares? Judge the idea for its own sake. Yes? No?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2009 02:47AM by The Anticult.

See how incredibly clever Byron Katie is? She gets it. She knows how to use Twitter, one of the few who do.
She is even using a new term...Tweeties...which is just like Sweetie.

Now she can get all her Twitter FOLLOWERS "hooked up" with the cell phone worldwide.
And she can randomly send them little unpredictable "love notes" through Twitter, like something one lover would send to their lover in a cell-text message.

And she knows her audience. This is not to be critical, but some of those folks might be a bit "love-starved" as they say, and BK knows how to press that button.
And this is called a Variable Schedule of Reinforcement. Without even looking at the Twitter acct, you will see she sends these out RANDOMLY, to make them more effective.
She can reach right into people's hearts while they are at work, or even in a meeting, or in the evening.

Look at that text.
QUOTE: "Oh no, oh no, dearest preciousTweeties, I can't love you more than now, no matter how hard I try! Oh well, just have to settle for maximum!"

She is telling a massive horde of 4,754 Followers, that she LOVES them to the MAXIMUM.
She is simply doing that, so some of those folks will mirror back that "love" to the projection of Byron Katie in their own minds.
Its just reinforcing that deep emotional attachment to Byron Katie as a Love-Guru, and its being done deliberately with technical precision.
People teach exactly how to do it, and Byron Katie is an expert at it.

Quote
Meadow

Quote
The Anticult

Byron Katie, as shown probably 100x in this thread, literally and explicitly uses every trick in the book to try and get her fans and followers to literally LOVE her, and ultimately give her EVERYTHING, and love her with all their heart. That is factual reality.
If anything, that is the core agenda of Byron Katie, to make her fans and followers "fall in love" with her. That comes right from her pre-frame advertising, "falling in love at first sight" with her, to her Love-Bombs, and everything else. Its all in this thread.

Another example of Katie's Love-Bombing on Twitter:

Quote

Oh no, oh no, dearest preciousTweeties, I can't love you more than now, no matter how hard I try! Oh well, just have to settle for maximum!
3:19 PM Jun 19th from Tweetie

Its fascinating about Twitter. For the average person, its not useful.

But for celebrities to connect with their "fans", its great.

But it might be MOST effective, for various New Wage culty Guru's, to connect with their flock, on a daily and hourly basis.
They are even called Followers, on Twitter. very convenient.

So the supreme LGAT New Wage Guru, can send out little cryptic and carefully written textual messages, which serve to manufacture instant intimacy with thousands of Followers.
You feel intimate and connected with your Guru, all day, everyday.

You can be sitting on the toilet, and you get a message from your Guru on your cell phone.
Your Guru can share little details of their day, and you feel like you are in their inner circle.
It manufactures intimacy.

Someone like Byron Katie is going to be one of the most successful users of Twitter.
Not to send out information, but to create intimacy, like these Twitter Love-Bombs.

Its time to do an analysis of how she has been using it so far. One can look at how she is using from the beginning, and look how she is using certain words, images, emotions, and phrases, to connect and influence. Talk about nested loops...
Twitter is perhaps the most advanced method yet, for a Guru to keep in hourly contact with their followers, and to create intimacy, and shape perceptions, and keep pressing those buttons that were created in the LGAT seminar. This is far beyond blogging, or email newsletters.
This is huge. Thanks for the Twitter tip!

Byron Katie (ByronKatie) on Twitter [twitter.com]

and Byron Katie has gained 10 new Twitter followers in just a few minutes.

4,754 - 4,764 Followers on Twitter

Check out these whoppers. This is the ideal platform for Byron Katie, short sentences, cryptic, embedded meanings, embedded suggestions, open loops, creating intimacy, love-bombing, creating confusion...she can just keep pressing the buttons on the surface, and using language to shape her Followers perceptions of reality on a daily basis, all the while pacing and leading to where she wants to lead.



_________ [twitter.com] ___________
When I am perfectly clear, what is is what I want.
6:25 PM May 28th from web

Nothing you believe is true. To know this is freedom.
11:00 PM Jun 1st from web

The teacher you need is the person you’re living with.
5:41 PM Jun 23rd from web

We do only three things in life: we sit, we stand, we lie horizontal. The rest is just a story.
7:06 AM Jun 5th from web

“I don’t know” is my favorite position.
3:30 PM Jun 12th from web

I'm Awake!!!!! I'm Amazed!!!!!! (aren't mornings wonderful).
9:16 AM Jun 17th from Tweetie



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2009 04:38AM by The Anticult.

I'm continuing to keep track of page view counts. Between yesterday morning and this morning, there were approx. 314 views of this thread. Wow.

I personally was wondering if RR would see something I felt I saw. He apparently did. I have been told time and again, in this forum and thread, to trust my gut feeling. My gut feeling agrees with Mr. Ross.

Has it not been said right here on this thread that apologists and trolls will do anything, including agreeing with whatever is written, to gain the trust of the participants? Did not corboy just pretty much lay out what might be going on? Could a person, for the sake of money, write a book about how 'bad' something is and still have ulterior motives that may not be in the best interest of those trying to recover from gurus and their minions?

By the way, reframing an argument by using archetypal monsters, such as Hitler and Manson, is technique; pure and simple. It appeared to me that right after back-pedaling on using the term "gullible", the writer went right back to the justification and promotion, which is what he got caught on.

Lastly, if this were a democracy I'd vote with RR. The concept of democracy is great, but in a forum such as this it would bring chaos rather quickly, in my opinion. Should the governor/moderator choose to 'pardon' an offender, so be it; if not, so be it. I hope this thread gets back on track quickly. It saved my ass, and it probably will save more if it stays on track.

qd

The thing to remember about about Manson and Hitler, is they were not ordinary people.

They did not become infamous household names by playing sports or by providing valuable information about a particular sport.

They were masters of persuasion.

If Hitler and Manson had learned to talk in a cozy way about sports, it would not have been ordinary bar room comraderie. Long term, they wanted to influence people, not be companionable. When you want power, being companionable is not enough.

I recall a pal saying of another fellow, 'He is the kind of person who is unable to just hang out.'

It is only in retrospect that we think of Hitler and Manson as men to beware of, because it is only in retrospect that we can count the number of bodies left in the wake of their persuasiveness.

But they acquired their earliest supporters before they left bodies behind.

And in Hitler's case, he kept persuading some, including leaders of nations, that he was appeasable.

Interestingly, in France, De Gaulle, when a young officer, did write a book advising that the French army needed to update and acquire tanks and learn to use armored divisions, instead of relying on obsolete military thinking that hunkering behind the Maginot line would be enough to protect the country. Meanwhile, Hitler was building tanks and planes and jeeps, creating a manueverable invading force that would flow right around and bypass the stationary Maginot Line.

De Gaulle suffered the fate of Cassandra. He was one of the few in the French army who understood the new military technology and who, if his advice had been followed, could have prepared the French army to meet Hitler on equal terms.

Instead, De Gaulle was ignored by his superiors, some of whom sneered that real soldiers did not waste time writing books. He was treated with suspicion, just as those of us are on RR.com.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2009 10:47PM by corboy.

I apologize if my posts seem contradictory or disjointed. The time-lapse between my posting, regarding a given comment, post or idea, and the appearance of my posts sometimes are separated by a half a dozen new posts that I wasn't able to read when I hit the "Post Message" button. Such is the case in the last four pages, which have gotten quite hot, it appears. Perhaps I should use the "quote" feature more, since it might show a bit more continuity. Anyway, I'm glad the thread has gotten back on topic. Subversion, whether accidental or by design, seems to happen to this thread quite a lot.

qd

p.s. I feel it's relevant to this thread, so I mention that a recently banned poster has shown his true colors on his blog. He "sounds" to me like a snotty punk, now. How very interesting. Another principal, mentioned in this ongoing conversation about said blog, immediately sidled up to him, by way of comment. He says about Katie, " She seems like a very nice lady, and if she reached out to be friends, I would be delighted to have dinner with her." Links to this thread were provided, too. My take? I'm glad that this thread is being promoted; those that love the blogger will continue to cozy up to him and apologize for him, the same way Neale Donald Walsh's followers did. But there might be those who can actually think for themselves and read more than the last couple pages of this thread, and perhaps be helped.

I think I'm done for now.

Hi QD,

Having read what you said, I agree with you and so have changed my mind about RR's handling of SS. I think he did the right thing after all.

This thread is after all focused on BK and it's been ridiculous how many times that focus has one way or another gotten diverted.

H

Quote
quackdave
I personally was wondering if RR would see something I felt I saw. He apparently did. I have been told time and again, in this forum and thread, to trust my gut feeling. My gut feeling agrees with Mr. Ross.

Has it not been said right here on this thread that apologists and trolls will do anything, including agreeing with whatever is written, to gain the trust of the participants? Did not corboy just pretty much lay out what might be going on? Could a person, for the sake of money, write a book about how 'bad' something is and still have ulterior motives that may not be in the best interest of those trying to recover from gurus and their minions?

By the way, reframing an argument by using archetypal monsters, such as Hitler and Manson, is technique; pure and simple. It appeared to me that right after back-pedaling on using the term "gullible", the writer went right back to the justification and promotion, which is what he got caught on.

Lastly, if this were a democracy I'd vote with RR. The concept of democracy is great, but in a forum such as this it would bring chaos rather quickly, in my opinion. Should the governor/moderator choose to 'pardon' an offender, so be it; if not, so be it. I hope this thread gets back on track quickly. It saved my ass, and it probably will save more if it stays on track.

qd