More kudos to Gail Tredwell
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 10, 2014 04:09AM
Many of GT's critics criticize her for having endured abuse for so long, why didnt she leave sooner.
Look up Philip Zimbardo's Prison Experiment. In just a few days of a mere experiment, the participants forgot they were free to leave.
And Zimbardo and the others did not pretend to be gurus offering bliss or salvation.
[gailtredwell.com]
Look up Philip Zimbardo's Prison Experiment. In just a few days of a mere experiment, the participants forgot they were free to leave.
And Zimbardo and the others did not pretend to be gurus offering bliss or salvation.
[gailtredwell.com]
Quote
RahulMarch 7, 2014, 8:21 pm
Dear Gail, I sincerely appreciate the courage you took to shed light into the all activities in amritapuri. Though majority of amma’s so called ‘devotees’ will try to tarnish your image and question your sincerity, I strongly believe that more and more people will come out exposing these fraud gurus and their spiritual business empire. It’s just the matter of time. Unfortunately we live in a world where people don’t understand the feelings of a person who is physically abused and manipulated for years. It’s understandable to anyone why it took 15 years for you to get the courage to reveal this information. If you were an Indian woman, this would never come out. This Amma lobby is so powerful that even police won’t even lodge a case against them. They feel they have invincible power of divinity. They are real devils in disguise. May god bless you.
.
ReplyLink
????
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 10, 2014 04:11AM
This comment is interesting -- so say the least.
Quote
[gailtredwell.com]
sridharFebruary 22, 2014, 5:51 am
Gail Madam., Are we not confusing spirituality with morality? While i do not condone shady deals., are they not present in human mind only to resurface in this eternal drama of creation., embedded in souls? Morality really helps in having a clear conscience., to introspect., but i am afraid about spirituality connection to it.. namaste.
Written by a former member of ISKON
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 22, 2014 11:07PM
This entire essay may be worth attention by those following
Ammachi -- close up or at a safe distance, far far away.
The entire essay is lengthy and full of insights.
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
Here is just one gem from the collection.
88
Having regular access to the personal sanctums of the movement's leaders and gurus, I learned that a public spiritual persona can be, in large part, a contrivance, a mask, an act, involving conscious transformations of voice-tone and physical bearing—like the assumed demeanor of an emperor as he leaves his boudoir for the balcony to behold his adoring subjects. As a privileged member of the organization (albeit one without political portfolio), I witnessed numerous such scenes of pretension, pomposity, and puerile Popery.
""
Ammachi -- close up or at a safe distance, far far away.
The entire essay is lengthy and full of insights.
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
Here is just one gem from the collection.
88
Having regular access to the personal sanctums of the movement's leaders and gurus, I learned that a public spiritual persona can be, in large part, a contrivance, a mask, an act, involving conscious transformations of voice-tone and physical bearing—like the assumed demeanor of an emperor as he leaves his boudoir for the balcony to behold his adoring subjects. As a privileged member of the organization (albeit one without political portfolio), I witnessed numerous such scenes of pretension, pomposity, and puerile Popery.
""
New review of Holy Hell on Amazon -ex devotee
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 26, 2014 07:44AM
[www.amazon.com]
In response to this thoughtful review by an ex-devotee, two persons replied
Quote
11 of 13 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Thank you Gail., March 23, 2014
By Michael Day (Pampatar, Venezuela) - See all my reviewsAmazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Holy Hell: A Memoir of Faith, Devotion, and Pure Madness (Kindle Edition)
I am writing you today to share with you that after 27 years,
my formal relationship with Ammachi has come to an end.
A few weeks ago, I downloaded a copy of "Holy Hell" by Gail Tredwell (aka Gayatri).
It is a really well written and unquestionably believable exposé of Ammachi.
She’s clearly done a tremendous amount of work on herself since leaving Ammachi, and I was especially impressed by how clear and vulnerable Gail was about her own wounding (half the book is about this). Her healing has enabled her to be extremely open about how it was her deep longing for God that caused her to be attracted to Ammachi, but it was her lack of understanding about her own psychology, low self esteem, and spiritual naiveté that caused her to relentlessly rationalize maintaining an intimate relationship with such a powerfully abusive person (Ammachi) for 22 years.
I found not a speck of vengeance anywhere in the entire text.
Originally, when I introduced Ammachi to probably somewhere around 100 people
back in 1987-88, I always said… “I sense this one will never have a scandal.”
It is time for me to retract that opinion.
Having now read Gail's book, Ammachi's psychological wounding…her abuse of power…her attachment to avarice and violence…and her profound dishonesty and hypocrisy make Sai Baba’s (another hugely popular guru now deceased) alleged molestations seem mild. After reading to my wife D. every section I had highlighted (a lot!), we felt absolutely no reason to mistrust any of what Gail had written. By the end of the book, it was clear we'd both arrived at the same conclusion. We now feel that we’ve essentially been devotees of someone who is an extraordinary, delightful, powerful woman who has amazing, tantalizing, shakti (energy), profound inner access to Vedas, unparalleled capacity to create sacred poetry and bhajans (songs), seems to be blessed/cursed this lifetime with a lot of supernatural siddhis (powers), is capable of giving sublime guidance, and…possesses an absolutely devastatingly injurious lack of psycho-spiritual integration.
Over the last 20 years, we had heard about certain dynamics in Ammachi's ashram that had given us much cause for concern, and each year we also felt a growing concern for Gayatri because she always looked increasingly unhealthy, and so utterly miserable. However, having witnessed first hand, back in the seventies, the kinds of ego struggle dynamics that make living in almost any ashram challenging, I had chosen to ignore most of what I had heard. Now, after reading Gail’s book, I feel certain that if we had gone to India, and stayed for awhile at Ammachi’s ashram instead of just participating whenever Ammachi came to North America, we both would have realized ages ago that something in this path was diabolically wrong. Looking back over the last 27 years, it’s clearer to me now as to why were intuitively never drawn to donate one penny to Ammachi’s organization, why it never felt right to legally change my name to the spiritual name that Ammachi had given me (even though I adored the name), and why certain alterations that Ammachi made to a mantra I’d been given in the seventies and had practiced relentlessly for 16 years had never felt right.
As a result of Gail opening our eyes and making us privy to situations we possibly would have never known about, we chose to get rid of almost all our pictures of Ammachi. We also took our rings and malas and rinsed them in the ocean.
Our wedding rings (Dovida and I were Ammachi’s first western wedding) have the inscription "Om Para Shaktiye Namaha" (universal divine mother mantra) and not "Om Amritesh Shwarye Namaha" (Ammachi mantra) so it feels right to keep them. After having gone through this purge, I have to admit that both my body and our home feel exceptionally lighter. It was also intriguing to us that we felt absolutely no grief or pain during this whole process. We still feel much love for Ammachi and probably always will. We both hope that Life gives her merciful healing in response to the fact that originally she did try to massively contribute to the upliftment of humanity even if her efforts were later perverted by her unresolved pain.
Shrdi Sai Baba allegedly hit people and threw some people out of a second floor window. Sathya Sai Baba allegedly had sex with teen agers as did Muktananda. Amrit Desai, Swami Satchidinananda, Adi Da Samaraj, Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, Osho, and a host of other great teachers also allegedly slept with some of their disciples. Many well known teachers have also wrestled with significant financial impropriety. Personally, I once had a teacher who used sex to contribute to the end of my first marriage and also demanded that I give him 100 per cent of my income in exchange for studying with him. Regardless their choices, I cannot deny that my life has been infinitely enriched, my heart and mind deeply opened, and my evolution greatly accelerated by these and many other great beings who have often dared to risk everything in service to humanity.
Having chosen a very eclectic spiritual journey this lifetime, I have definitely experienced my share of "wounded teachers". However, I sense it is due to the depth of my commitment to my own awakening, coupled with my willingness to work relentlessly on my psychology that’s enabled me to have never needed any teacher to be more than human. As a result, I feel only gratitude for the fact that in the end... it is always both... the gifts AND the wounding of any teacher that contribute deeply to our evolution and awakening. I also don’t feel that the teachings these teachers bring through are in any way invalidated or rendered moot simply because of their character flaws or their inability to walk their own talk.
Finally, if you are someone who is drawn to Indian spiritual practices and are seeking instruction and guidance without any of the mind bending heart wrenching entanglements that often accompany the guru disciple relationship, then I heartily recommend either googling "advanced yoga practices" or "aypsite dot org" or looking up "advanced yoga practices” by Yogani here on Amazon.
Gail's book is really an excellent read. If you have been involved with any eastern or western teacher, saint, mystic, or guru, I highly recommend it. I also recommend reading the reviews of Gail’s book as well…I came across many “peerful pearls” in the reviews section.
In response to this thoughtful review by an ex-devotee, two persons replied
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Initial post: Mar 23, 2014 10:09:08 AM PDT
FeelingToInfinity says:
In regard to teachers like Muktananda, Swami Satchidinananda, Adi Da Samaraj, Sogyal Rimpoche, Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche, Osho, Baker, Gempo, Maezumi, Shimano, and Sasaki Roshi (to name just the tip of the iceberg in terms of scandals), I go into some depth here, at [theconsciousprocess.wordpressdotcom]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted on Mar 23, 2014 12:09:48 PM PDT
Cynthia H. Ray says:
Nicely expressed. I, too, was with Amma for 20 years, then began to pull away, even before hearing of Gail's book. I sold my Amma doll on Ebay. I have not yet read the book, but plan to do so.
Re: Crimes of Mata Amma Amritanandamayi aka Ammachi
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: March 26, 2014 07:59AM
Corboy disclaimer: What is quoted are people's own opinions.
Cult Education Institute does not endorse anything recommended in the quoted Amazon reviews.
Corboy's considered opinion after years spent reading harm reports and after Corboy having been royally rump burned by an advisor who was in one of the guru traditions states that the Indian submit to the guru model has a burden of risk that outweighs potential benefits.
It is difficult to become an adult and exercise agency in a responsible manner.
It is a gift and yet more rare to be born into or emigrate into a participatory democracy where one is free to practice any religion or none at all; where one can develop critical thinking (itself a rare skill) to full capacity, and not risk one's life to utilize it.
To give all this up and go from the freedom of a citizen in a participatory democracy to making oneself a submissive peasant is, in Corboy's opinion, a very sad thing -- to exchange gold for colored tinsel.
And these gurus are tax exempt, and too often use their wealth and influence to produce followers who terrorize and bully those persons who challenge this entire flawed system.
And in India, wealthy commerical gurus such as Amma and Sri(3) Ravi Shankar and Satya Sai Baba, inescapably become power brokers, enriching their clans and given impunity from police action because politicians want votes from the devotees -- and because wealthy gurus can bribe police to impotance.
Cult Education Institute does not endorse anything recommended in the quoted Amazon reviews.
Corboy's considered opinion after years spent reading harm reports and after Corboy having been royally rump burned by an advisor who was in one of the guru traditions states that the Indian submit to the guru model has a burden of risk that outweighs potential benefits.
It is difficult to become an adult and exercise agency in a responsible manner.
It is a gift and yet more rare to be born into or emigrate into a participatory democracy where one is free to practice any religion or none at all; where one can develop critical thinking (itself a rare skill) to full capacity, and not risk one's life to utilize it.
To give all this up and go from the freedom of a citizen in a participatory democracy to making oneself a submissive peasant is, in Corboy's opinion, a very sad thing -- to exchange gold for colored tinsel.
And these gurus are tax exempt, and too often use their wealth and influence to produce followers who terrorize and bully those persons who challenge this entire flawed system.
And in India, wealthy commerical gurus such as Amma and Sri(3) Ravi Shankar and Satya Sai Baba, inescapably become power brokers, enriching their clans and given impunity from police action because politicians want votes from the devotees -- and because wealthy gurus can bribe police to impotance.
From an Indian -- Gail Tredwell's blog
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: April 03, 2014 05:54AM
[gailtredwell.com]
Quote
KumarApril 2, 2014, 2:21 am
I have been trying to get hold of your book, looks like it is banned here in India, the closest I could get is the interview John Brittas had with you which he has published. Being a Indian aplogize to you for all that you have gone trough. Spred your experience to millions of westeners who fall prey to suchtantriks and donate millions. What happened to the poor nurses who protested aganist the merger pay in Amiritha Hospital and the way patients are fleeced there goes to show how that this is just a money laundering facility for those who have illegal money.
Re: Crimes of Mata Amma Amritanandamayi aka Ammachi
Posted by:
arunadasi
()
Date: April 06, 2014 04:45PM
I haven't read this whole thread; the last post I read was Corboy's post about his daughter. I just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear this, and to wish you strength for the future.
I have been to Amma on two occasions, as she came highly recommended by a trustworthy and usually discriminating friend. I went to her satsangs at Crystal Palace; this was several years ago.
I was open to her and quite believed she was genuine, as my friend and herhusband were so convinced. I took part in the hugging ceremony thing, in which you sit on the floor and inch up but by bit to get to sit on her lap and she whispers in your ear.
All I can say is: I felt nothing, wasn't convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt (and I do trust my gut instinct -- it never fails me!) and never went back.
My friend will be gutted to hear this. I first caught wind of the book when I was in India in March; the friend's husband was there as well and he was quite shocked, and wondering how his wife will take it. It's so disappointing for people who are genuine in their search but duped. HE is convinced; I don't know if SHE will be.
I have been to Amma on two occasions, as she came highly recommended by a trustworthy and usually discriminating friend. I went to her satsangs at Crystal Palace; this was several years ago.
I was open to her and quite believed she was genuine, as my friend and herhusband were so convinced. I took part in the hugging ceremony thing, in which you sit on the floor and inch up but by bit to get to sit on her lap and she whispers in your ear.
All I can say is: I felt nothing, wasn't convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt (and I do trust my gut instinct -- it never fails me!) and never went back.
My friend will be gutted to hear this. I first caught wind of the book when I was in India in March; the friend's husband was there as well and he was quite shocked, and wondering how his wife will take it. It's so disappointing for people who are genuine in their search but duped. HE is convinced; I don't know if SHE will be.
Re: Crimes of Mata Amma Amritanandamayi aka Ammachi
Posted by:
arunadasi
()
Date: April 07, 2014 12:09AM
Not sure if this link has been posted before, but it's an interesting article on Ammachi (Friday, March 7th) :
[guruphiliac.blogspot.de]
[guruphiliac.blogspot.de]
It is someone else's daughter, no less loved and missed
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: April 07, 2014 11:10PM
I have no daughter.
That reference was quoted from someone else.
(Somber)
The other day, I was with a friend who showed us coastline that
is beautiful but dangerous.
The waves are powerful, so much more powerful than most visitors
imagine.
And what looks like ordinary shoreline is but a thin edge of
sand. Just over the waterline the coast abruptly stops, then plunges
down, becoming what is termed a 'submarine canyon'.
You stand upon that seductive, magnificant beach, that lovely
ocean, and unless you've done research or been informed by someone, you cannot
by mere sensory input, not by mere untutored experience, have any way to know one is actually standing at the edge of..not so much a beach, but a cliff.
A cliff whose edge is just under the water, a cliff that plunges down into the of a canyon...a canyon hidden by blue water and surf.
The result is...many step onto that beach, toward that ocean, then step into that ocean, enchanted.
Suddenly, a powerful wave surges forth, punches the person to the ground--then sucks the victim out, out out ----then down into the canyon.
My hiking tutor, who has spent years in search and rescue, shook his head and said this stretch of coast has one of the highest rate of drownings in the US.
People cannot imagine of the waves that this spot. They think they know what waves are, but these waves are different. And they conceal something most of us dont know of -- that I did not know about -- a submarine canyon.
How can we keep a safe distance from a beach that is the rim of a hidden, submarine canyon if no one has ever told us about these, or even the terms needed to run a search on the hazards?
Yet...the spiritual scene, no one is accused of being negative minded or unspiritual if one takes the trouble to research the potential hazards of this--or any coastline.
One can still love this place. But...one stays far away from any risk of being embraced by the ocean -- at that spot.
For you do not want that ocean to take hold of your body. That ocean and its hidden geology, is conceals a trap.
That reference was quoted from someone else.
(Somber)
The other day, I was with a friend who showed us coastline that
is beautiful but dangerous.
The waves are powerful, so much more powerful than most visitors
imagine.
And what looks like ordinary shoreline is but a thin edge of
sand. Just over the waterline the coast abruptly stops, then plunges
down, becoming what is termed a 'submarine canyon'.
You stand upon that seductive, magnificant beach, that lovely
ocean, and unless you've done research or been informed by someone, you cannot
by mere sensory input, not by mere untutored experience, have any way to know one is actually standing at the edge of..not so much a beach, but a cliff.
A cliff whose edge is just under the water, a cliff that plunges down into the of a canyon...a canyon hidden by blue water and surf.
The result is...many step onto that beach, toward that ocean, then step into that ocean, enchanted.
Suddenly, a powerful wave surges forth, punches the person to the ground--then sucks the victim out, out out ----then down into the canyon.
My hiking tutor, who has spent years in search and rescue, shook his head and said this stretch of coast has one of the highest rate of drownings in the US.
People cannot imagine of the waves that this spot. They think they know what waves are, but these waves are different. And they conceal something most of us dont know of -- that I did not know about -- a submarine canyon.
How can we keep a safe distance from a beach that is the rim of a hidden, submarine canyon if no one has ever told us about these, or even the terms needed to run a search on the hazards?
Yet...the spiritual scene, no one is accused of being negative minded or unspiritual if one takes the trouble to research the potential hazards of this--or any coastline.
One can still love this place. But...one stays far away from any risk of being embraced by the ocean -- at that spot.
For you do not want that ocean to take hold of your body. That ocean and its hidden geology, is conceals a trap.
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