Lesson in this
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: December 31, 2013 06:32AM
It is entirely safe to praise a guru -- you get support not only from the guru and your fellow devotees; you get support from the large sector of the New Age social scene in which people want to believe gurus are infalliable, even if they do not currently venerate one.
It is the most dangerous thing to expose a guru as falling short of minimum standards for civil human behavior.
This expose you to to the fury of those who want to live in a dream and cannot cope with any challenge to that dream.
It is the most dangerous thing to expose a guru as falling short of minimum standards for civil human behavior.
This expose you to to the fury of those who want to live in a dream and cannot cope with any challenge to that dream.
A specimen of the debate
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: December 31, 2013 06:44AM
"At the end of the day when you stop talking about all this bhakti and throwing other obfuscating religious concepts about it all comes down to 10%. That amount being what Amma actually spends on real charity from all the foreign donations given to her."
[www.amazon.com]
Note the allegation that anyone who disapproves of gurus is trapped in a modern mindset.
Yet...Amma and the other guru use modern implements such as jet planes, computers, spreadsheets and hire accountants and financial advisors who have modern skills in money management and logistics.
All to turn citizens of participatory democracies into peasants who think they are the new Brahmin spiritual elite.
And this bloated wealth made from US, UK and many European devotees is tax exempt.
The area around the San Ramon ashram is protected by the police, local fire department, and the roads and highways that support travel to and from that ashram are supported by the tax paying residents of California and Contra Costa County. Ditto for the water and electrical grid.
Amma and the gurus like her are quite willing to use the resources of modern science and society to extend and pay for tax exempt fiefdoms.
From the site xe.com
Current rate of exchange
1 US Dollar = 61.8434 INR
1 Indian Rupee = 0.0161699 USD
Mid-market rates: 2013-12-30 22:41 UTC
[www.amazon.com]
Note the allegation that anyone who disapproves of gurus is trapped in a modern mindset.
Yet...Amma and the other guru use modern implements such as jet planes, computers, spreadsheets and hire accountants and financial advisors who have modern skills in money management and logistics.
All to turn citizens of participatory democracies into peasants who think they are the new Brahmin spiritual elite.
And this bloated wealth made from US, UK and many European devotees is tax exempt.
The area around the San Ramon ashram is protected by the police, local fire department, and the roads and highways that support travel to and from that ashram are supported by the tax paying residents of California and Contra Costa County. Ditto for the water and electrical grid.
Amma and the gurus like her are quite willing to use the resources of modern science and society to extend and pay for tax exempt fiefdoms.
From the site xe.com
Current rate of exchange
1 US Dollar = 61.8434 INR
1 Indian Rupee = 0.0161699 USD
Mid-market rates: 2013-12-30 22:41 UTC
Quote
28 of 39 people found the following review helpful
My Experience of this major book, December 9, 2013
By DougAmazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Holy Hell: A Memoir of Faith, Devotion, and Pure Madness (Paperback)
I was part of the organization for 20 years, mostly in San Ramon, and know Gail. I have no doubt as to the authenticity of every word in this book. It's a gift to mankind. Mother has become Sudamani-who she always was. If you want to know the Truth of the organization, read this book. To me, becoming free of this organization is a large step in opening to Self-Realization since thinking one is going to get some great spiritual advancement by associating with this incredibly dishonest group's behavior, is so unlikely to happen. Look at the oldest devotees, they coverup dark behaviors consistently. As the organizations message is to become aware of God, the core members live a life full of AMAZING deception. Thank you Gail for bringing the abusive practices of this organization to Light. And I'm relieved you are out of their. I have no doubt it will take devotees some time to heal from knowing what went on in an organization they thought was purely divine. I haven't been for 5 years and I'm going through my process. Clearly, the bhajans were sweet and yet so much was an act. I was in the audience in San Ramon when Sudamini said real gurus do not have sex with their devotees, and then to have behaved that way, is not spiritual but crazy. Just stop the act and behave however you wish. But to tell followers to not do this behavior and that, and then to do those very behaviors in the shadows is just unfriendly and abusive, considering devotees have looked to this group as their Spiritual teacher.I admit I was hoodwinked. And I've always been devoted to knowing God-so here's another temporary illusion within the illusion- I bought into. I forgive myself. My vote is to bring all the illusions to the Light. To me, this is an incredibly important book to read. Some that I know choose to not read and stay in the illusion projected by the organization, that's ok too. Help other customers find the most helpful reviews
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Holy Hell: A Memoir of Faith, Devotion, and Pure Madness 0989679403 Gail Tredwell Wattle Tree Press Holy Hell: A Memoir of Faith, Devotion, and Pure Madness Books My Experience of this major book I was part of the organization for 20 years, mostly in San Ramon, and know Gail. I have no doubt as to the authenticity of every word in this book. It's a gift to mankind. Mother has become Sudamani-who she always was. If you want to know the Truth of the organization, read this book. To me, becoming free of this organization is a large step in opening to Self-Realization since thinking one is going to get some great spiritual advancement by associating with this incredibly dishonest group's behavior, is so unlikely to happen. Look at the oldest devotees, they coverup dark behaviors consistently. As the organizations message is to become aware of God, the core members live a life full of AMAZING deception. Thank you Gail for bringing the abusive practices of this organization to Light. And I'm relieved you are out of their. I have no doubt it will take devotees some time to heal from knowing what went on in an organization they thought was purely divine. I haven't been for 5 years and I'm going through my process. Clearly, the bhajans were sweet and yet so much was an act. I was in the audience in San Ramon when Sudamini said real gurus do not have sex with their devotees, and then to have behaved that way, is not spiritual but crazy. Just stop the act and behave however you wish. But to tell followers to not do this behavior and that, and then to do those very behaviors in the shadows is just unfriendly and abusive, considering devotees have looked to this group as their Spiritual teacher.I admit I was hoodwinked. And I've always been devoted to knowing God-so here's another temporary illusion within the illusion- I bought into. I forgive myself. My vote is to bring all the illusions to the Light. To me, this is an incredibly important book to read. Some that I know choose to not read and stay in the illusion projected by the organization, that's ok too. Doug December 9, 2013
Overall: 5
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Sort: Oldest first | Newest first Showing 1-7 of 7 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Dec 10, 2013 7:40:15 AM PST
Boi says:
I love your review. I do believe false leaders serve a purpose in teaching us to awaken and see the reality of our own divinity and not seek it in anyone or anything outside of ourselves.
I like your compassion, understanding and empathy that you show for, "Some that I know choose to not read and stay in the illusion projected by the organization, that's ok too. " You're right that it's okay for them to stay in their comfortable place, until they are ready to face the harsh truth and reality. We probably all have been in relationships or situations that we'd built our beliefs and truths around and then suddenly the reality of our REAL reality began to unmask itself and it was too much to process, especially with our ego in full defense mode.
Although, we have empathy for those who still chose to turn a blind eye to the truth, I think continuing to bring "all the illusions to the Light," is one's duty, despite the discomfort it may cause to others' convenient sense of reality.
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 13, 2013 9:38:28 AM PST
Danielle Bousquet says:
There are two sides to every story. check the below blog about the book and its author.
[letterstothemother.wordpress.com]
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Posted on Dec 13, 2013 5:11:58 PM PST
Jaya says:
Check out this link of Gail talking about Amma in her later years with her. I think this is a way to get another perspective in the story too.
[www.youtube.com]
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 15, 2013 9:53:11 AM PST
liviscobal says:
There seems to be two sides to your story as well Danielle Bousquet.
[embezzlingtheworld.blogspot.fr]
If the spreadsheet is true then this is your 18th copy/paste.
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Posted on Dec 18, 2013 7:01:50 PM PST
Rita says:
What deception do the core members live? What Dark behaviors? Could you explain what you're talking about? Thanks.
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 20, 2013 1:01:53 PM PST
C. Keniley says:
So much of this commentary stems from an very basic cultural misunderstanding of Bhakti in general and Amma's path in particular. Bhakti is a practice, a path and a spiritual culture. EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING IS CONSIDERED DIVINE AND SACRED. The Guru is the focus of the community. The subtlety of the play is much deeper than the surface views like "Amma burped, the devotees were mean to me, Amma scolded someone so it broke my illusion of her divinity". Because we have not grown up in this tradition in the West, many of us just don't get it. The whole point of this to the devotee, is "am I divine?" That is the prime consideration. Are you a sacred being and have you forgotten who you are, what your core identity is? Do you fade in and out between these states of deep rememberance of wholeness and the non stop dramas of body identification supported by the mass culture?
This is the real controversy; If you get down to the basic of the Amma "debate", it is that if spirituality and Indian guru culture offends your modern views and ways of life, you are going to enjoy debunking it and believe whatever stoies and gossip you hear..... Just don't lose your own sense of infinite possibility, and become a cultural bigot in the process.
The whole authoritarian issue is understandable, but easy to blow out of proportion. Is Bill Belicheck, the coach of the New England Patriots and abusive authoritarian who bullies his players? Yes. Is he also the best coach in the NFL who is beloved by his players and sought out by the best in the sport. Yes. Could a former Patriots star come out and write a National Enquirer like book about how Bill Belicheck has bad breath and is a cheapscate etc etc. ? of course, but depending on your perspective and personal interests, it would entirely miss the point.
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In reply to an earlier post on Dec 21, 2013 3:29:43 PM PST
Marit Hegge says:
At the end of the day when you stop talking about all this bhakti and throwing other obfuscating religious concepts about it all comes down to 10%. That amount being what Amma actually spends on real charity from all the foreign donations given to her. Then there is another figure of 63% being the amount being held in offshore foreign bank accounts outside of India. And finally $342 million, the amount believed to be held in 2012 in some of these accounts - at least the ones that were declared. These numbers being derived from the Indian government's own website on foreign currency declarations for NGOs and charities in that country. That is the reality behind the bhakti and the "divinity"!
Therapist Devotee reportedly shilling for Amma - reddit
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: January 18, 2014 11:07PM
A discussion on Reddit started by a person who described how her therapist not only worked at an Amma event - but encouraged this client to attend.
One person made this sardonic comment:
shiv52 "As an Indian i want to say you white people deserve these charlatans. you gave us christanity and justin bieber we will give you shitty Indian saints"
This article is about two years old - before disclosures from Gayatri Tredwell hit the news (thanks, Rolling Stone!) and via her memoir, Holy Hell.
[forum.culteducation.com]
unquote)"I suspect your therapist was "recruited" herself and is probably not fully aware of what a scam this group is. These kinds of cults usually treat potential recruiters (like your therapist) differently than the regular sheep, just to make sure they don't get disillusioned with the cult. Think how Scientology treats its celebrities (like gods) vs how it treats average suckers (like shit); same thing.
So: immediately report her behavior to the state licensing board (you can find out exactly how she's licensed easily- it should be hung in her office, or at least appended after her name on business cards, such as LPC). They will investigate a serious allegation like this immediately, and if she's lucky they'll let her off with probation and ethics classes as long as she gets the message that she screwed up and this was NOT OKAY. (unquote)
"
All material quoted from
Reddit, My therapist referred me to a cult. Should I report her ...Jul 9, 2011 ... My therapist has helped me through a lot, but lately she has been talking about
this woman named Amma. I didn't really think much about it but ...
www.reddit.com/r/askreddit/comments/il1fc/ - Similar pages
One person made this sardonic comment:
shiv52 "As an Indian i want to say you white people deserve these charlatans. you gave us christanity and justin bieber we will give you shitty Indian saints"
This article is about two years old - before disclosures from Gayatri Tredwell hit the news (thanks, Rolling Stone!) and via her memoir, Holy Hell.
[forum.culteducation.com]
unquote)"I suspect your therapist was "recruited" herself and is probably not fully aware of what a scam this group is. These kinds of cults usually treat potential recruiters (like your therapist) differently than the regular sheep, just to make sure they don't get disillusioned with the cult. Think how Scientology treats its celebrities (like gods) vs how it treats average suckers (like shit); same thing.
So: immediately report her behavior to the state licensing board (you can find out exactly how she's licensed easily- it should be hung in her office, or at least appended after her name on business cards, such as LPC). They will investigate a serious allegation like this immediately, and if she's lucky they'll let her off with probation and ethics classes as long as she gets the message that she screwed up and this was NOT OKAY. (unquote)
"
All material quoted from
Reddit, My therapist referred me to a cult. Should I report her ...Jul 9, 2011 ... My therapist has helped me through a lot, but lately she has been talking about
this woman named Amma. I didn't really think much about it but ...
www.reddit.com/r/askreddit/comments/il1fc/ - Similar pages
Additional reflections and comments on Treadwell book
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: January 20, 2014 04:32AM
Corboy's Rule of Thumb
The more a group or guru talk about love, love, love, you can bet the more vicious they will be when someone dares disagree.
Reviews of Gayatri Tredwell's memoir, Holy Hell on Amazon.com
[www.amazon.com]
The more a group or guru talk about love, love, love, you can bet the more vicious they will be when someone dares disagree.
Reviews of Gayatri Tredwell's memoir, Holy Hell on Amazon.com
[www.amazon.com]
Quote
19 of 22 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars This is Such an Important Book to Help Dispel Delusions. Thank You Gail., January 12, 2014
By Rain - See all my reviewsAmazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Holy Hell: A Memoir of Faith, Devotion, and Pure Madness (Kindle Edition)
As a former devotee who left this group due to unkindness on the part of Amma and her swamis/swaminis- plus due to all the chaos, confusion and mind control, I so appreciate what is brought to light in this book, though I am so saddened to learn just how disturbing the levels of unkindness can become around the web of this complex teacher with unresolved issues of her own. The ways Amma and her devotees routinely treat others are examples of extreme spiritual immaturity. There is a serious lack of practices on this path for the basic development of patience, kindness, wisdom, morality. Whoever you are, don't let any teacher take over and control your mind, ever. Instead, do the work of being truly free and responsible for yourself. I do not recommend going on the path of Guru yoga to anyone. There are other clearer, simpler, safer and more respectful ways, offering guidance and profound teachings of true freedom and happiness. Peace to All Beings.
Help other customers find the most helpful reviews
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Comment Comments (3)Quote
http://www.amazon.com/review/R3NLJE6OSNKAEE/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00GB83S3G&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=#wasThisHelpfulLast edited by the author on Jan 16, 2014 4:06:58 PM PST
Rain says:
Yes, it is not clear to me the motives or intentions of this guru, but everything is about more, more, bigger, recruiting devotees. It is very imbalanced. It's a type of rescue mission fundamentalist mentality. Meanwhile all these crazed devotees compete fiercely to get close to the guru for blessings, and for their wishes to come true. The stress is enormous.
(Corboy-this post is by an Amma loyalist who perhaps in error, marked his review as 5 stars, which put his negative assessment of Tredwell in among those who support her)
6 of 17 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Outstanding fiction, January 7, 2014
By Krishnamurthy Chandra - See all my reviewsThis review is from: Holy Hell: A Memoir of Faith, Devotion, and Pure Madness (Kindle Edition)
I have chosen to write with my name unlike so many others who praised this book who have chosen to hide themselves
This book is pure fiction. Ms Tredwell should call this a fiction or confessions of a deluded mind
I have known Gayathri when she was one of Amma's senior most disciples. She never sported a smile ( Every other renunciate were always pleasant and friendly) and never had a kind word to say to anyone. Amma's kindness to her knew no bounds
I am not from the ashram but a former non believer of anything resembling a Guru. I came to Amma on my own in 1992 when my family were in serious distress resembling the movie " enemy of the state".
Amma gave me hope when I had none left. When I was down and out she was the most compassionate. When I could do something for the ashram, she never accepted anything as offering. I had to force it. As I won every battle of life, Amma's advice was invaluable and her concern most soothing to our frayed nerves
I have no business dealings with the institution and can hence say what I believe is my first hand experience without any baggage
Amma has stayed with us in our home a numerous times and cannot describe the humility and concern she showed to everyone around her. She asked for nothing and slept on the floor even though a bed was available.
I have never seen Amma rest or even sleep as she constantly is either giving darshan or conducting the affairs of the ashram ( demanding explanations for every penny spent) or actually calling her devotees if she felt that they needed her solace. I have received calls at all hours of night enquiring about my welfare.
As in any institutions there are bad apples and I have seen them leave at various points.
If Ms Tredwell was so unhappy, she could have left the ashram long back as i have personally seen go out alone for shopping. There was no one following her. She interacted freely with everyone and had all the opportunities to leave if she hated her calling in life.
Ms Tredwell should focus on writing fiction and call it fiction
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Comment Comments (4)
15 of 20 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Excellent read: From a former "Devotee", January 2, 2014
By Bumblebee - See all my reviewsAmazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Holy Hell: A Memoir of Faith, Devotion, and Pure Madness (Kindle Edition)
I wasted 6 prime years of my youth as part of this charade, before having the courage to simply quit several years ago. The "man in heat" story in this book almost made me puke. Thanks to Gail for having the courage to tell it as it is. I do not think this is a work of fiction as some of the negative reviews say.
The long time devotees will dismiss this, but look both within and outside for the truth. The signs were always there - we just have to wake up and smell the coffee.
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23 of 28 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Excellent account of spiritual abuse, January 1, 2014
By A. Rayne-Levi "Rayneskywalker" (Santa Fe, New Mexico) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME) Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Holy Hell: A Memoir of Faith, Devotion, and Pure Madness (Paperback)
Gail Tredwell has courage by the boatloads. As a former member of a cult (I spent seven years with Rajneesh and was the department head of his bodyguards, the Samurai), I know too well about the deception, manipulation and abuses that cults practice. I spoke out, but did not write a book. I testified against Rajneesh and was retaliated against by the leadership of the cult. Smear campaigns, denial of the abuse, and loyalty to the leader at any cost are the hallmarks of groups like Amma's, Rajneesh's, and the Nazis in the last century, when there is a defection. Often there are threats of physical violence. I applaud Gail for leaving her holy hell--it can hard to understand why it is so difficult it is to leave abusive relationships. Leaving a spiritual teacher and a spiritual community are more like getting an amputation than getting a divorce. The loss and grief are akin to leaving a situation of domestic violence, but I believe, much worse. Those detractors of Gail are to be pitied.People believe what they wish to believe. Some people believe, to this day, that the holocaust never happened. Some people will always love the likes of Amma, Rajneesh, Hitler, Andrew Cohen and many others, despite concrete evidence of the horrors they commit.
Amma's Google Subpoena
Posted by:
Amritanandamayi.Scam
()
Date: January 20, 2014 05:05AM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_im2EkzHYBORHQtMHlpdXZvR2hmMWNrNklURU9xUXBCVGc4/edit?usp=sharing
http://amma-taavi-kassila-sex-cover-up.blogspot.com/2014/01/amma-hires-expensive-attorney-to-suppress-our-free-speech.html
http://amma-taavi-kassila-sex-cover-up.blogspot.com/2014/01/amma-hires-expensive-attorney-to-suppress-our-free-speech.html
Quote
amma-taavi-kassila-sex-cover-up.blogspot.com
Amma has ordered Taavi Kassila to hire an expensive LA legal team to frighten her critics. We have contacted the EFF and ACLU for legal counsel. We will continue whistleblowing reports on Amma's criminal cult. Other Amma critics are being pressurized by Amma's "monstering" tactics.
In an attempt to censor free speech, Amma Amritanandamayi's cyber-attack dogs are threatening “Amma Amritanandamayi Taavi Kassila Sex Scandal Cover-up" blog. Amma has hired the Los Angeles branch of a top U.S.-based law firm Kelley Drye & Warren LLP which has offices in Mumbai, India. Attorney Lee S. Brenner has filed a deposition subpoena requesting Google to give up all email, IP addresses, names, street addresses, email addresses and phone numbers associated with our blog. If Google gives up any private information then Google would not be trusted and would lose their users. In the subpoena Amma seeks to possess an unlimited amount of information and property including hand-written notes, private journals, library material, checks, interviews and all Google products including YouTube and Google Docs. We believe that Amma's devotees are compiling a hit list.
The owners of “Amma Amritanandamayi Taavi Kassila Sex Scandal Cover-up" are encouraging Amma to revealing her true face as a cruel cult leader.
"People should be able to leave Amma as they please..."
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: January 30, 2014 12:49AM
(quoted from below)People should be able to leave Amma as they please, without suffering slander, threats and deliberate attempts at character assassination years later. I know for a fact that I am not the only one who has gone through this, and I intend to speak up on behalf of those who are afraid to.
It appears this post was made about two years ago
(unquote)
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
Posted by 'The Trouserman" on SRF (Self Realization Fellowship blacklist discussion forum)
(Quote)
Message from An Ex-Amma Devotee Lead [-]
Posts: 457
Sep 22 12 3:08 AM
Administrator
Tags : exposing, amma
VDoves wrote:
I am an ex-devotee of the cult of Mata Amritanandamayi, who is frequently referred to in the Western media as "the hugging saint". It is common for members of this cult to malign ex-devotees for leaving the organization. Threats and physical retaliation are also common against those who speak up regarding the suspicious activities of the Mata Amritanandayi Math and M.A. Center. Even the act of raising questions is often greeted with violent and hyper-defensive retaliation from her devotees. My case is certainly no exception.
It was on July 29th, almost a year after I had left the group, that I was informed by a casual reader of the cults online Yahoo group that both my partner and I were on the groups "prayer list". I made a brief post at this time requesting that our names be removed from the prayer list. This request was greeted with hostility from the group, and an attempt to slander my name and reputation via character assassination. References were made that I am an alleged drug addict.
Both my partner and I work with at-risk youth, most of whom have life threatening drug addictions. In most of our work (she is a clinical therapist and I am a volunteer) people still know our "spiritual" names and we are known within the community by these names. To be labeled a drug addict, is an attempt to malign my and my partners' credentials as therapists and volunteer workers with populations suffering from addiction. I don't even know who the person who made this accusation is, as I have never associated socially with devotees even when I was one. You can imagine the negative impact this type of libel could have on both of our work. I have requested that these posts be removed immediately, but the moderator so far has refused to take action. The moderator has chosen not to delete these posts, but to also continue posting messages under the original topic. This behavior represents a deliberate agenda to defame my name and threaten my credentials within my community. I recently reported them for abuse of TOS to the Yahoo administration, yet as of this date Yahoo has refused to take action.
I am ready to proceed with legal action against the original poster and potentially against Yahoo inc. in regard to this matter. The original poster of the defamatory material can be held legally responsible for the initiation of false and libelous statements. Since I have already requested in writing for the material to be removed, and the moderator has deliberately refused, I am now able to proceed with legal action. I would like to move forward with this for the protection of current and future ex-devotees who will undoubtedly be defamed by this group should they express their dissatisfaction with the cults activities. If you have been defamed or subject to libel as a result of your association with the cult of Mata Amritanandamayi, please contact me via www.cultofthehuggingsaint.com, a website which I currently contribute articles and support. The e-mail will be forwarded to me. The legal process for Internet defamation suits is a lengthy and complicated one, and while I am in talks with an attorney, I welcome any legal advice or counsel regarding this case as well as discussions with those similarly affected and interested in pursuing a class action lawsuit.
UPDATE: The above post was posted on several message boards, incuding Guruphiliac and the Ex-Amma Yahoo forum. Within a span of two days, I have received no less than 20 e-mails from
devotees, most of them anonymous. Of all of these e-mails, three of them threatened physical harm to myself and my family. They claimed to know where I live and one claimed that they could easily find out personal information on me from my old Amma retreat registrations. The gist of this was that basically Amma "protects" her devotees and that I am slandering Amma by speaking up about these people launching character assassination on me.
I've also received e-mails accusing me of being a fanatic and wanting to know why I am visiting the Amma Yahoo groups if I am no longer a devotee. As I explained, I visited this group when I was told that they were involving me in their prayer list and making accusations of drug addiction. The Cult Of The Hugging Saint website has also had to delete handfuls of e-mails regarding this situation. As you can see, the typical reaction of devotees towards those who speak up is in full swing.
I have deleted the initial offending e-mails, but plan to hang onto
any future e-mails that are threatening and antagonistic. I am no
longer engaging these fanatics in conversations, but will be taking
the legal route in regard to the slanderous posts and any future
e-mail threats.
While I thought I had left the cult and all thoughts of it behind me, I am happy to fully take up the cause of exposing their hypocrisy. People should be able to leave Amma as they please, without suffering slander, threats and deliberate attempts at character assassination years later. I know for a fact that I am not the only one who has gone through this, and I intend to speak up on behalf of those who are afraid to.
For those of you who have not heard, the website cultofthehuggingsaint.com recently disappeared from the Internet without a trace. The owner of the site suspects that it was an interception of the Ammachi people. There are several ex-devotees and volunteers working to get the site and all of its content back online. The Ammachi corporation continuously tries to destroy anything that gets in the way of it's carefully crafted and maintained media image.
Edited 2 times by thetrouserman Oct 24 12 6:26 AM.
(unquote)
It appears this post was made about two years ago
(unquote)
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]
Posted by 'The Trouserman" on SRF (Self Realization Fellowship blacklist discussion forum)
(Quote)
Message from An Ex-Amma Devotee Lead [-]
Posts: 457
Sep 22 12 3:08 AM
Administrator
Tags : exposing, amma
VDoves wrote:
I am an ex-devotee of the cult of Mata Amritanandamayi, who is frequently referred to in the Western media as "the hugging saint". It is common for members of this cult to malign ex-devotees for leaving the organization. Threats and physical retaliation are also common against those who speak up regarding the suspicious activities of the Mata Amritanandayi Math and M.A. Center. Even the act of raising questions is often greeted with violent and hyper-defensive retaliation from her devotees. My case is certainly no exception.
It was on July 29th, almost a year after I had left the group, that I was informed by a casual reader of the cults online Yahoo group that both my partner and I were on the groups "prayer list". I made a brief post at this time requesting that our names be removed from the prayer list. This request was greeted with hostility from the group, and an attempt to slander my name and reputation via character assassination. References were made that I am an alleged drug addict.
Both my partner and I work with at-risk youth, most of whom have life threatening drug addictions. In most of our work (she is a clinical therapist and I am a volunteer) people still know our "spiritual" names and we are known within the community by these names. To be labeled a drug addict, is an attempt to malign my and my partners' credentials as therapists and volunteer workers with populations suffering from addiction. I don't even know who the person who made this accusation is, as I have never associated socially with devotees even when I was one. You can imagine the negative impact this type of libel could have on both of our work. I have requested that these posts be removed immediately, but the moderator so far has refused to take action. The moderator has chosen not to delete these posts, but to also continue posting messages under the original topic. This behavior represents a deliberate agenda to defame my name and threaten my credentials within my community. I recently reported them for abuse of TOS to the Yahoo administration, yet as of this date Yahoo has refused to take action.
I am ready to proceed with legal action against the original poster and potentially against Yahoo inc. in regard to this matter. The original poster of the defamatory material can be held legally responsible for the initiation of false and libelous statements. Since I have already requested in writing for the material to be removed, and the moderator has deliberately refused, I am now able to proceed with legal action. I would like to move forward with this for the protection of current and future ex-devotees who will undoubtedly be defamed by this group should they express their dissatisfaction with the cults activities. If you have been defamed or subject to libel as a result of your association with the cult of Mata Amritanandamayi, please contact me via www.cultofthehuggingsaint.com, a website which I currently contribute articles and support. The e-mail will be forwarded to me. The legal process for Internet defamation suits is a lengthy and complicated one, and while I am in talks with an attorney, I welcome any legal advice or counsel regarding this case as well as discussions with those similarly affected and interested in pursuing a class action lawsuit.
UPDATE: The above post was posted on several message boards, incuding Guruphiliac and the Ex-Amma Yahoo forum. Within a span of two days, I have received no less than 20 e-mails from
devotees, most of them anonymous. Of all of these e-mails, three of them threatened physical harm to myself and my family. They claimed to know where I live and one claimed that they could easily find out personal information on me from my old Amma retreat registrations. The gist of this was that basically Amma "protects" her devotees and that I am slandering Amma by speaking up about these people launching character assassination on me.
I've also received e-mails accusing me of being a fanatic and wanting to know why I am visiting the Amma Yahoo groups if I am no longer a devotee. As I explained, I visited this group when I was told that they were involving me in their prayer list and making accusations of drug addiction. The Cult Of The Hugging Saint website has also had to delete handfuls of e-mails regarding this situation. As you can see, the typical reaction of devotees towards those who speak up is in full swing.
I have deleted the initial offending e-mails, but plan to hang onto
any future e-mails that are threatening and antagonistic. I am no
longer engaging these fanatics in conversations, but will be taking
the legal route in regard to the slanderous posts and any future
e-mail threats.
While I thought I had left the cult and all thoughts of it behind me, I am happy to fully take up the cause of exposing their hypocrisy. People should be able to leave Amma as they please, without suffering slander, threats and deliberate attempts at character assassination years later. I know for a fact that I am not the only one who has gone through this, and I intend to speak up on behalf of those who are afraid to.
For those of you who have not heard, the website cultofthehuggingsaint.com recently disappeared from the Internet without a trace. The owner of the site suspects that it was an interception of the Ammachi people. There are several ex-devotees and volunteers working to get the site and all of its content back online. The Ammachi corporation continuously tries to destroy anything that gets in the way of it's carefully crafted and maintained media image.
Edited 2 times by thetrouserman Oct 24 12 6:26 AM.
(unquote)
New posts for Holy Hell on Amazon com
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: January 31, 2014 08:01AM
[www.amazon.com]
Quote
By Alexander Karp-Robinson - See all my reviewsAmazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Holy Hell: A Memoir of Faith, Devotion, and Pure Madness (Paperback)
I could not put this book down. I was up until 2am last night reading, exhausted, but I needed to find out how it ended. It's well written, heart wrenching, and takes you on a deep journey into the inner working of Amma's Ashram. Throughout history many cults have been exposed. What makes this work so groundbreaking is that is exposes a cult that has somehow escaped scrutiny for so long. Gail, Amma's attendant for 20 years, writes of the atrocious physical, psychological and sexual abuse she endured. In addition, she brings to light Amma's cold, sociopathic, and narcissistic behavior. Don't pass this up. If you are a devotee, read this and find out what is really going on. If you've never heard of Amma, read it as an interesting biographical work, or as an inoculation against becoming a devotee.
And Gail, Thank you so much for writing this book! For many years, I saw you at Amma's side, serving her day and night. I am deeply happy for you that you escaped! Thank you for not keeping this inside and for sharing it with the world. This is important news and needs to meet as many people as possible.
Quote
By Lalita - See all my reviewsAmazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Holy Hell: A Memoir of Faith, Devotion, and Pure Madness (Paperback)
I was impressed by Gail Tredwell's writing, especially for a first book. Definitely better than expected based on some of the reviews I had read. It was quite descriptive and kept me engaged--I read it in a matter of hours.
But more importantly, it seemed like a genuine effort towards finding and communicating the truth. I like truth. I don't know what really went on at the M.A. Math although I was involved in a low key way for about 10 years at a U.S. M.A Center quite awhile back. I just knew to not get too involved, I could see there were things going on that I would not want to be involved with. I saw a lot of ego manifesting in many ways. I could see that despite Ammachi's powerful spiritual aura, there was a mythology being created around and about her. I did profoundly enjoy the music and the beautiful Indian ritual involving flower petals, oil lamps and camphor and most of all the love that seemed to radiate from Ammachi and the love and fellowship of the people who came to the events.
However, I had some experiences that eventually made me realize being involved with the M.A. Center was really not for me. A few of them vaguely echoed some of the experiences mentioned in Holy Hell, but for the most part I was not privy to the kinds of information and experience Gail was.
I heard from people who had gone to India years ago that some of Ammachi's relatives were building big palatial houses on the other side of the river and did not believe that her family's fishing business could have taken off to that extent. I would go into the question line and find that Ammachi did not know what was on my mind as we were told she did and would not understand the background information relating to my question, so would not answer it in a meaningful way. I actually never really believed that Ammachi was too pure to menstruate, that her body worked in such a supernatural way because she had Type 1 diabetes and neck issues, both very human conditions. I heard people referring to Amma and her enterprises as Amma Inc. at least a decade ago because it was generally acknowledged it had become a big business.
There is enough concurrence by others of some of Gail's claims that her narrative needs to be taken seriously. Certainly the Indian government's own records of what has happened to the vast amounts of money donated to the M.A. Math is important information. Why was so little of it actually utilized for charities? I think that should be explained clearly by the M.A. Math and records of their financial plans provided.
I just want the truth to come out and soon because many people have dedicated their lives to the service of Ammachi and her mission. I say this not knowing what the truth is, just whatever it is let the sunlight shine on a situation which clearly has harmed a number of people and has the potential to harm many more. And I mean on both sides....I suggest Gail provide whatever evidence she has to support her views soon as well. If even a portion of what Gail claims went on at Ammachi's ashram and on the tours is true, then this would likely be devastating to many people. They may wind up feeling duped and very angry--and even worse feel they have wasted years of their precious lives and find themselves lost and deeply disillusioned. At least let it be over if it needs to be. Let them move on if necessary.
And if Ammachi and her swamis are largely innocent of the unethical and cruel actions described by Gail, let them be exonerated. My gut feeling is that it won't be so simple though because Gail's account comes across as at least partially credible.
The moral of this story, IMO, is be captain of your own ship. Don't give over your power to a guru or any other type of spiritual leader. We've seen and heard the story of corrupt gurus over and over--Sathya Sai Baba, Muktananda and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi to name just a few. Also in some corrupt Christian ministries and in the Catholic Church priest pedophilia situation. The truth must be found in our own hearts and even then, it is still a little suspect because we have human hearts that are so affected by our own hopes, fears, desires and egos. Question even your own self. Where does faith come in? I don't know but somewhere...but faith in the light itself, not in a fallible human.
As Lord Acton said--power corrupts and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely. He had it right. Humans tend to be corrupted by power.
I have read some of the letters from Ammachi devotees criticizing Gail for her human weaknesses such as feeling annoyed when the gifts given to the female brahmacharinis were less than those to the males, and that she desired more comfort and love for herself. Her honesty about her own weaknesses are her strength (if those things are even weaknesses) and the feelings she described seemed completely normal and natural for a human being, especially under circumstances of abuse and exhaustion. When we acknowledge who we really are, we can evolve. As long as we are deluding ourselves and/or others we are stunted.
The best outcome of the publishing of Holy Hell would be for more truth and more light to manifest.Initial post: Jan 23, 2014 10:38:42 AM PSTQuote
Sub-reviews of Lalita's review
Ann Caviness says:
YES, YES, and YES!!! Lalita, thank you for such an insightful, intelligent, and compassionate review.
Gail has always put her weaknesses out there. She has always been courageous in that way. Who else does that? Back in her Swamini Amma days, I was often embarrassed for her that she revealed so much in her satsangs. Or really, that Gail endured so much inner turmoil when Amma put her in impossible no-win situations. Gail fought tooth and nail to extract a spiritual lesson from much of which was probably just abusive behavior.
What is faith? I remember a very dear, elderly woman from church during my childhood. The last time I saw her she was ill and weak. She shuffled a few steps towards me on gigantic, swollen legs. Each breath was labored. She took my hand and looked into my eyes with sweetness and calm, and said, "All is well." That to me is faith. Her body was exhausted and dying, and yet she knew a stillness of faith in an eternal principle of life itself.
Right now, Amma is reminding me a lot of Bernie Madoff. Bernie had everything it took to become a highly successful legitimate business man, but somehow he made decisions along the way that eventually turned him into one of the biggest scam artists in history. Perhaps it started with a few lies and a heady exhilaration of power over people. From there, it snowballed. And of course, lots of money rolled in...millions and millions of dollars.
And people love a good story. Hence all the myth-building. We in large part do it to ourselves. During a satsang when I lived in Amritapuri, Amma scolded her brahmachari for not translating correctly what she had said. He had omitted something. He blushed and said the embarrassing part--that in the old days Amma used to take off her clothes and run and play with the local children.
Amma is something of a free spirit and we want to wrap her up into a neatly packaged guru. And these days it is not just "guru" that we demand, it is an all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being: an Avatar (OMG, you're god!). I can't help but wonder if Amma ever misses the little Sudhamani she once was, who prayed deeply with sincere love of God. Where did she go?
Yes, let it all come to light, in all its multi-faceted complexity.
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In reply to an earlier post on Jan 23, 2014 6:14:17 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Jan 23, 2014 6:14:56 PM PST
Lalita says:
That story about faith and the elderly woman was inspiring.
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Posted on Jan 25, 2014 12:48:52 PM PST
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Chris DuBois says:
What a great and insightful review, Lalita ! I agree with your insights about the weakness of human nature. A well balanced review that sees both sides with compassion. And yes, more sunlight is what is needed. Thank you for sharing your views.
Quote
If Ammachi was Texan Man Claiming to Be the Divine Father
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: February 04, 2014 12:28AM
"What if Ammachi was Texan Man Claiming to Be the Divine Father"
article by Julian Walker on Elephant Journal
What if Ammachi was Texan Man Claiming to Be ... - Elephant JournalA new Rolling Stone article begins like this "A guru named Amma has drawn 32
... Via Julian Walker on Aug 24, 2012 ... Picture a 50 year old white guy in a
cowboy hat with long grey hair and beard up on a ... Read more from Julian
Walker ».
www.elephantjournal.com/.../what-if-ammachi-was-texan-man-claiming-to- be-the-divine-father/ - 291k
These comments following the article pertain to the Ammachi documentary, "Darshan"
@Suri_k8 · 75 weeks ago
It really doesnt matter who is he throwing stones at , Amma is not different from John Friend (a yoga teacher who has had scandal troubles-Corboy), she is not special, there is no reason why her motives and M.o shouldnt be questioned... And I think that is the point Julian is trying to make.
When I see her in Darshan I see nothing but a woman giving hugs and there really is no evidence that she is other than that...a woman being treated as a rockstar that gives hugs .
India is ranked 147 in the world's education index so it is to be expected that there is a lot of ignorance and gullibility in its people, which facilitates the proliferation of this kind of fenomenon , what is really sad is that westerners, that supposedly are better educated buy all these stories and actually fail to use their critical thinking skills .
What you say about Julian is just your interpretation, and does sound like cheap psychology , there is no way you can know where Julian is coming from unless you know him personally .... If you read his other posts you will notice that he is all for questioning the validity of absurd beliefs.
As for Mike , well, he is entitled to his opinion.
Btw, I think he was right, the meaning of ad hominem acording to dictionary . Com is:
ad ho·mi·nem? ?[ad hom-uh-nuhm ?nem, ahd-] Show IPA
adjective
1.
appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason.
2.
attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.
+1
\\mb · 74 weeks ago
(Quoted from an Amma devotee)
People should check out the documentary called "Darshan" before they jump to any conclusions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply by mb
OK, I watched the whole film on Netflix with its non-subtitled subtitles. The primary languages used in this film, in descending order, are Malayalam (Amma's native tongue apparently), French (the native tongue of the film's director), "unspecified foreign language" (spoken by several unidentified speakers) and lastly, English (spoken by some English-speaking Indians).
So, while missing anything conceptual that may have been said in the film by Amma while speaking Malayalam, the main thing that smacks me across the face from this film as a whole is that she truly is living the Indian version of the rockstar lifestyle. Wherever she goes, people want to touch her, she is surrounded by gaggles of photographers, she is constantly having flower garlands put on and taken off her, the organizers count the number of hugs and broadcast these numbers during the event: the more the better? Flower petals are thrown at her ritually-washed feet. While watching the high-intensity hugfest toward the end of the film, I was struck by the presence of the handlers on the stage next to Amma who literally grasp the head of the "huggee" and push it into Amma's right shoulder area. By end of these events, her white sari is literally stained brown presumably by the sweat of 20,000 heads being carefully pushed by the handlers into this area of her body. The security detail at these large stadium events have their own headquarters replete with large posters of Amma.
To complete the rockstar analogy, this documentary basically follows her all-India road tour in all the big cities - Delhi, Kolkata, Benares etc. It is actually a lovely travelogue as well, I especially enjoyed the elephant washer in the river (presumably the Ganges).
Anyway, the English parts I could understand were snippets of devotee testimonials, including the standard one that ordinary people can never really understand who Amma "truly is" because she's beyond the ability of ordinary people to understand. And an introductory speaker at a big stadium event who gave a super-elementary lesson in astronomy tp the crowd about the earth turning on its axis, and also orbiting the sun and a plea to go to his website if there were further questions.
So? Unless I'm completely missing the boat by not understanding Malayalam, I'm left with the impressions that she's got a very succesful and large bhakti cult happening. It's great that the money goes to hospitals, charities, etc. Sai Baba sent huge scads of monies to educational institutions and hospitals as well, and it didn't make him anything less of a rapscallion than he really was. Amma seems more benign than that, but then this is a film designed to showcase her Mother Theresa-like qualities.
Those are the conclusions I've jumped to because I watched this film, not in spite of
article by Julian Walker on Elephant Journal
What if Ammachi was Texan Man Claiming to Be ... - Elephant JournalA new Rolling Stone article begins like this "A guru named Amma has drawn 32
... Via Julian Walker on Aug 24, 2012 ... Picture a 50 year old white guy in a
cowboy hat with long grey hair and beard up on a ... Read more from Julian
Walker ».
www.elephantjournal.com/.../what-if-ammachi-was-texan-man-claiming-to- be-the-divine-father/ - 291k
These comments following the article pertain to the Ammachi documentary, "Darshan"
@Suri_k8 · 75 weeks ago
It really doesnt matter who is he throwing stones at , Amma is not different from John Friend (a yoga teacher who has had scandal troubles-Corboy), she is not special, there is no reason why her motives and M.o shouldnt be questioned... And I think that is the point Julian is trying to make.
When I see her in Darshan I see nothing but a woman giving hugs and there really is no evidence that she is other than that...a woman being treated as a rockstar that gives hugs .
India is ranked 147 in the world's education index so it is to be expected that there is a lot of ignorance and gullibility in its people, which facilitates the proliferation of this kind of fenomenon , what is really sad is that westerners, that supposedly are better educated buy all these stories and actually fail to use their critical thinking skills .
What you say about Julian is just your interpretation, and does sound like cheap psychology , there is no way you can know where Julian is coming from unless you know him personally .... If you read his other posts you will notice that he is all for questioning the validity of absurd beliefs.
As for Mike , well, he is entitled to his opinion.
Btw, I think he was right, the meaning of ad hominem acording to dictionary . Com is:
ad ho·mi·nem? ?[ad hom-uh-nuhm ?nem, ahd-] Show IPA
adjective
1.
appealing to one's prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one's intellect or reason.
2.
attacking an opponent's character rather than answering his argument.
+1
\\mb · 74 weeks ago
(Quoted from an Amma devotee)
People should check out the documentary called "Darshan" before they jump to any conclusions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply by mb
OK, I watched the whole film on Netflix with its non-subtitled subtitles. The primary languages used in this film, in descending order, are Malayalam (Amma's native tongue apparently), French (the native tongue of the film's director), "unspecified foreign language" (spoken by several unidentified speakers) and lastly, English (spoken by some English-speaking Indians).
So, while missing anything conceptual that may have been said in the film by Amma while speaking Malayalam, the main thing that smacks me across the face from this film as a whole is that she truly is living the Indian version of the rockstar lifestyle. Wherever she goes, people want to touch her, she is surrounded by gaggles of photographers, she is constantly having flower garlands put on and taken off her, the organizers count the number of hugs and broadcast these numbers during the event: the more the better? Flower petals are thrown at her ritually-washed feet. While watching the high-intensity hugfest toward the end of the film, I was struck by the presence of the handlers on the stage next to Amma who literally grasp the head of the "huggee" and push it into Amma's right shoulder area. By end of these events, her white sari is literally stained brown presumably by the sweat of 20,000 heads being carefully pushed by the handlers into this area of her body. The security detail at these large stadium events have their own headquarters replete with large posters of Amma.
To complete the rockstar analogy, this documentary basically follows her all-India road tour in all the big cities - Delhi, Kolkata, Benares etc. It is actually a lovely travelogue as well, I especially enjoyed the elephant washer in the river (presumably the Ganges).
Anyway, the English parts I could understand were snippets of devotee testimonials, including the standard one that ordinary people can never really understand who Amma "truly is" because she's beyond the ability of ordinary people to understand. And an introductory speaker at a big stadium event who gave a super-elementary lesson in astronomy tp the crowd about the earth turning on its axis, and also orbiting the sun and a plea to go to his website if there were further questions.
So? Unless I'm completely missing the boat by not understanding Malayalam, I'm left with the impressions that she's got a very succesful and large bhakti cult happening. It's great that the money goes to hospitals, charities, etc. Sai Baba sent huge scads of monies to educational institutions and hospitals as well, and it didn't make him anything less of a rapscallion than he really was. Amma seems more benign than that, but then this is a film designed to showcase her Mother Theresa-like qualities.
Those are the conclusions I've jumped to because I watched this film, not in spite of
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