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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 31, 2020 05:42AM

Do you know why the comments are blocked for all of the JCs' videos? It's because they are all designed for kids, and YouTube does not allow comments to be made in videos made for kids. These videos are aimed at CHILDREN; kids are the intended audience for the YouTube channel called "A Voice in the Desert".

[www.youtube.com]

Here are a few notes about this (above) video, which is entitled "The Truth About Christianity That Nobody Tells You":

There's a lot of truth in this video. Indeed, there are apostates everywhere in our world today. Also, I will not argue that Jesus’ teachings are most precious.

BUT, I did not recognize the translation of the verses quoted. Scriptures are being misquoted again, taken out of context and misapplied. When they read some Bible verses they sound "off" to me. Dave does not tell us which translation he is using, or (often) what chapter and verse he is referencing. The developing condemnation toward the viewer throughout the video was pretty harsh. At the nine minute mark, Brother Dave says something accusatory like "like you and the rest of the world". That raised an eyebrow. It’s ironic to say that most people have Christianity wrong, because they are listing to man and not God! Therefore, listen to Dave (a man)? This is not logical. Dave is a man. He's just another "guru", and not even a very original one.

There are some exponent ramifications to the cornerstone prophecy, but the primary meaning was the Jewish rejection of their Messiah, and not "the world's" rejection of Jesus. So, what I’m left with is an impression that this is intended for an audience that is semi-ignorant of what the Bible really says, and seeks to leverage on guilt and emotion, rather than facts and Scripture.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2020 05:44AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 31, 2020 06:07AM

One more post today, then that's all for now.

It seems to me that what Dave does to those who get trapped in his "web", is just like what the spider does to the fly in the poem "The Spider and the Fly" by Howitt (1829).

[en.wikipedia.org])

[www.youtube.com]

"Will you walk into my parlour?" said a spider to a fly;
" 'Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy.
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I have many pretty things to shew when you are there."
"Oh no, no!" said the little fly, "to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again."

"I'm sure you must be weary, with soaring up so high,
Will you rest upon my little bed?" said the spider to the fly.
"There are pretty curtains drawn around, the sheets are fine and thin;
And if you like to rest awhile, I'll snugly tuck you in."
"Oh no, no!" said the little fly, "for I've often heard it said,
They never, never wake again, who sleep upon your bed!"

Said the cunning spider to the fly, "Dear friend, what shall I do,
To prove the warm affection I've always felt for you?
I have, within my pantry, good store of all that's nice;
I'm sure you're very welcome—will you please to take a slice?"
"Oh no, no!" said the little fly, "kind sir, that cannot be,"
I've heard what's in your pantry, and I do not wish to see."

"Sweet creature!" said the spider, "you're witty and you're wise.
How handsome are your gauzy wings, how brilliant are your eyes!
I have a little looking-glass upon my parlour shelf,
If you'll step in one moment, dear, you shall behold yourself."
"I thank you, gentle sir," she said, "for what you're pleased to say,
And bidding you good morning now, I'll call another day."

The spider turned him round about, and went into his den,
For well he knew, the silly fly would soon come back again:
So he wove a subtle web, in a little corner, sly,
And set his table ready, to dine upon the fly.
Then he went out to his door again, and merrily did sing,
"Come hither, hither, pretty fly, with the pearl and silver wing;
Your robes are green and purple---there's a crest upon your head;
Your eyes are like the diamond bright, but mine are dull as lead."

Alas, alas! how very soon this silly little fly,
Hearing his wily, flattering words, came slowly flitting by;
With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer drew,
Thinking only of her brilliant eyes, and green and purple hue:—
Thinking only of her crested head, poor foolish thing!—At last
Up jumped the cunning spider, and fiercely held her fast.

He dragged her up his winding stair, into his dismal den,
Within his little parlour—but she ne'er came out again!
—And now, dear little children, who may this story read,
To idle, silly, flattering words, I pray you ne'er give heed:
Unto an evil counsellor, close heart, and ear, and eye,
And take a lesson from this tale, of the Spider and the Fly.


“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2020 06:10AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 31, 2020 11:01PM

Dave McKay on Stanley Milgram, and obedience to real or perceived authority:

...I promised myself that I would never be so gullible as to carry out orders that contradicted my conscience. I would have the courage to disobey. However, I was shocked to see that my fellow classmates were hardly affected at all by what they had learned from reading about the experiment. There was abundant evidence that they were prepared to do whatever it took to impress the university authorities, pass the exams, and get themselves recognised as "experts".

There was no doubt in my mind that, if the details of the experiment were altered a bit, these same students (who had actually studied the original experiment and been told of its historic and frightening significance) would be just as ready as earlier volunteers, to kill someone under orders from a higher authority, if they could be convinced that the authorities would exonerate them afterwards.


[www.jesuschristians.com]

This is an ironic quote, in that Dave is expert at playing those in his orbit like puppets on strings made of Bible verses. He is very good at manipulating a person's cognitive dissonance in order to get them to enthusiastically bend to his will. Dave is saying that under the right conditions, ordinarily reasonably people could be persuaded to kill (and by implication, die). This is also a startling quote, given that it was written by somebody who call himself "The Divine Authority".

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2020 11:22PM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 01, 2020 06:45AM

Here's another amazingly hypocritical quote from Dave McKay:

"I've said this before, but it needs to be said again: The basic difference in the relationship between Christian leaders and followers is that the leader's first responsibility is to love the follower, and the follower's first responsibility is to trust the leader. If you switch these over, there will be problems. Trust and love may, respectively, become the secondary aspect of the relationship, but primarily, the leader needs to love the follower, and the follower needs to trust the leader."

[jesuschristians.com]

This article is entitled "Accountability". First of all, it's rank with hypocrisy because Dave himself is accountable to no one. For another thing, Dave is ruthless about putting people out of the group and onto the streets. He even did that to his own son, Kevin, in the rain even. Where is the love in that? Dave calls it "tough love"; he redefines the word "love" and uses it as an excuse to abuse others, as in "I"m not abusing you; I'm applying tough love." How loving was it to put an elderly bloke (Alan) out on the street, because he would not sue his wife for even more money?

The word "leader" occurs forty-nine times in the article, and the word "follower" twenty-three times. The word "love" occurs twenty-five times. It's apparent that Dave sees the world in very rigid, black-and-white terms. One is either with Dave, or one is against him. One is either following Jesus, or one is not. One is either a leader or a follower. There seems to be no middle ground for him; Dave apparently sees the world that way, as being made up of "leaders" and "followers". Dave, as the Divine Authority, sees himself as the leader of leaders, and NEVER as a follower (not even of Jesus, since Dave seems to think that Jesus needs Dave in order to interpret His teachings for Him).

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2020 06:55AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 03, 2020 04:03AM

Dave has always admired martyrs who behave provocatively - the Buddhists who set themselves on fire to protest the war in Vietnam, and so on. In fact, he once seriously considered setting himself on fire, in India, when a local orphanage was threatened with -closure. More recently, when Abu Sayyaf guerrillas took 25 people hostage in the Philippines, Dave offered himself in their place, and tried to set up an international hostage exchange programme, in which philanthropic Christians would swap places with hostages at a moment's notice. "I think they were just spiritual tests to ascertain whether I'd be willing to take such extreme steps," he tells me. "We don't want to sound a trumpet about how great we are, especially when we haven't actually done anything - at least, not yet."

[www.theguardian.com]

The martyr can never seek martyrdom. In the end, something disastrous and tragic is bound to happen because of Dave. A death (or set of deaths) will be the end result of Dave McKay's demented influence over his people. This is my prediction, but I hope that I am wrong about this.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 04:24AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 03, 2020 04:51AM

Dave McKay won a trip around the world in 1962, as the U.S. 'Newsboy of the Year'. The trip was sponsored by Qantas Airlines, and it featured five days in Sydney. McKay, who married his high school sweetheart, Cherry, when they were both still in their teens, returned to Australia, to live there with his young wife in 1967. They now have dual citizenship (American and Australian).
In 1977, after working as a journalist, public relations officer, and television news reader in Australia, McKay decided to "stop writing news and to start making it".


[www.amazon.com]

There is nothing in the Bible, or the red-letter teachings of Jesus, which specifically prohibits suicide. The commandment "thou shall not kill" was interpreted by the rabbis as meaning (in addition to commanding against the murder of others) that one should not use one's hand against one's own self, that one should not murder oneself. That's the only thing I can see, that is explicitly anti-suicide in the Holy Bible. I fear that one day, Dave will direct the group to do something irreversible, and I am not talking about voluntary organ donation. He'll be 76 on his next birthday, Dave will. It'll be his last hoorah, one last publicity stunt for which the world will know and remember him, forever. I hope like hell I am wrong. They say that they obey Jesus' teachings very literally; why would they not take the part about laying down your life for your friends (John 15:13) literally too?

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 05:10AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 03, 2020 07:34AM

People choose to be deceived. When they find truth too uncomfortable or too expensive, they begin shopping for cheaper imitations to take the place of what they have rejected. After the choice has been made, myths can become progressively more absurd, and people will continue to accept them rather than return to what they first rejected.

A sensational illustration occurred in Jonestown, Guyana, a few years ago. Almost 1,000 people drank Kool_aid mixed with cyanide in a mass suicide pact. The world was quick to place the blame on their leader, the Rev. JIm Jones.

A host of unsatisfactory explanations were put forward as to how he succeeded in deceiving these people. The truth was that his followers had plenty of opportunities to opt for the truth rather for Jones' demented obsessions ... but Jones made it so much easier to escape personal responsibility by letting him become their conscience. Committing suicide by drinking cyanide is not very comfortable; but, by that stage, the groups mythology had reached a very advanced stage, and even death was easier than retracing their steps back to reality.

The greater tragedy is that Jonestown may only be a step or two ahead of the rest of the planet earth. While the populations of Russia and America are not lining up to take cyanide tablets, they are lining up to vote for leaders who talk seriously of participating in an all-out nuclear war.

No, the Dark Ages (and Jonestown) are not finished chapters in man's history!


[jesuschristians.com]

Dave has his people forsaking and disrespecting their parents and families of origin (despite the fact the Jesus Himself had a great relationship with His own mother), he's had them whipping themselves, he's had them donating their internal organs (and parts of those organs) to strangers...he once bullied a boy by disconnecting the battery on his (the boy's) electric wheelchair, in order to prevent the boy from leaving. So what's next for Dave? It's like Liesel said years ago: there's no real plan. He'll come up with something even crazier and more dangerous next time, and they'll all follow him.

And another thing: Jonestown was not a step or two ahead of the rest of society; that assertion strikes me as ludicrous and disturbing. Most of those people did not want to die, and most of them did not take the poison willingly. Over 900 people died at Jonestown, and about one-third of those killed were children, young ones. Those kids sure as hell did not choose to die. A step or two ahead, my arse. It's no small or casual thing, the Jonestown incident. Dave would do well to study history more carefully.

These (what I quoted above) are just the writings of a predatory sadist who is trying to justify his behavior. He's just a monster, an evil man, Dave is. In Dave's mind, anything bad that happens to others, is their own damn fault. Anything bad that happens to Dave, though, is never his fault. "People" do not choose to be deceived. That is not true. And is Dave not also "people"? How arrogant.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 07:39AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 03, 2020 09:15AM

A little more...I've studied your body of work, Dave. I've done so for a long time. I know you.

The way I interpret this, is that it is a threat. These are not allusions; these are outright threats:

As we really do get closer to God, and as that of God begins to shine forth from us, there is going to be a different sort of a light that comes, which may actually be symbolised by those saints who were burned at the stake for their faith in days gone by.

It's coming, Friends, and we need to see it as an inseparable part of our decision to follow Christ. In the end, he said that he would cause divisions between us and everyone else who is in opposition to him. In these dark days, that is going to include almost everyone. But we can rejoice, "for so persecuted the prophets which were before you," and we can rejoice because "great is our reward in heaven." Our rejoicing in itself is going to anger them further, but it will all hasten the day of His returning. Burn, brothers, burn!


[jesuschristians.com]

This statement is the equivalent of some hostage-taker putting the gun to his captive's head and yelling, "Nobody make any sudden moves or the kid gets it!"

It comes down to, is that here we have a small group of people, all of whom (to varying degrees) are caught up in trying to be Dave McKay. He's got these people in his grip, and he knows it.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 03, 2020 09:48AM

Correction: WHAT it comes down to, is that here we have a small group of people, all of whom (to varying degrees) are caught up in trying to be Dave McKay. He's got these people in his grip, and he knows it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 09:49AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 03, 2020 10:10AM

Dave McKay: offended by everything, ashamed of nothing. :-)

[www.youtube.com]

"In every dream home a heartache
And every step I take
Takes me further from heaven
Is there a heaven?
I'd like to think so
Standards of living
They're rising daily
But home oh sweet home
It's only a saying
From bell push to faucet
In smart town apartment
The cottage is pretty
The main house a palace
Penthouse perfection
But what goes on
What to do there
Better pray there
Open plan living
Bungalow ranch style
All of it's comforts
Seem so essential
I bought you mail order
My plain wrapper baby
Your skin is like vinyl
The perfect companion
You float my new pool
De luxe and delightful
Inflatable doll
My role is to serve you
Disposable darling
Can't throw you away now
Immortal and life size
My breath is inside you
I'll dress you up daily
And keep you till death sighs
Inflatable doll
Lover ungrateful
I blew up your body
But you blew my mind
Oh those heartaches
Dreamhome heartaches..."


“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2020 10:11AM by The Whirlwind.

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