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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 27, 2020 08:21AM

Congratulations are in order! We just realised that Dave and Cherry's 56th wedding anniversary was just a couple of days ago, on the 24th of this month. McKay married his high school sweetheart, Sherian (Cherry) when they were both still in their teens on 24 July 1964 in Yolo County, California. Dave was born on 17 December 1944, so he would have been aged nineteen years, at the time. Happy anniversary, Dave and Cherry!

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2020 08:21AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 28, 2020 03:28AM

Here (attached) is a photograph of a person who is believed to be Dave McKay (on the far right) with his mother and brothers. Dave was a handsome little devil.

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels a shouted for joy?"

Attachments: McKay.jpg (52.8 KB)  
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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 28, 2020 04:39AM

PS: his mother (if that is indeed a picture of Dave's mum) looks like such a sweet woman. One wonders, however, why it is that his father "Mac" was not in the (attached) picture too?

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels a shouted for joy?"




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2020 04:39AM by The Whirlwind.

Attachments: McKay.jpg (52.8 KB)  
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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 28, 2020 08:10AM

"FLEE AMERICA! Come Out of Her, My People!"

[www.youtube.com]

This is a noteworthy video; I just sussed this out. They say that last fall (of 2019), they were led by God to leave the Unites States. Less than six months later, in March of 2020, the virus comes along and everything worldwide gets locked down (so to speak). It's an interesting coincidence, to be sure, but it's just that: a coincidence. Besides, it does not mean anything for America, because the virus affects the whole world, and not just America. So sorry, Dave: America is no closer to falling than it was in 1990, or in 1974, when David Berg said that the comet Kohoutek signaled the imminent destruction of that country.

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels a shouted for joy?"




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2020 08:17AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 28, 2020 10:51PM

"FLEE AMERICA! Come Out of Her, My People!"

[www.youtube.com]

Here are a few more notes on this video:

I could poke holes in this video all day long. That was a direct misquote (at 1:19) about Sodom and Gomorrah. Jesus said (Matthew 27:37) "But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." And I get where Dave is coming from, BUT should we not be ‘in the world, but not of the world?’ This is yet another example of how Dave twists the Scriptures to his own ends.

Jesus even spent his ministry amongst the sinners, the prostitutes and tax collectors, the most revolting of Jewish society. He only retreated into the solitude of the desert to be tempted. (Matthew 4:1-11)

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels a shouted for joy?"




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2020 10:52PM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 29, 2020 07:53AM

"I believe the real truth of the matter was that Dave had launched a very authoritarian push to remove anyone, particularly mature Christians, who might disagree with him. I believe his real motive was to take the community underground so that he could "educate" them with as little disagreement as possible. Anyone who disagreed with this new policy was shunned. This behavior by Dave to act against anyone who disagrees with him has become worse since 1998 when he his own son and other members left the community and subsequently had an enforced order of excommunication on them so that only he was permitted to communicate with them. We were told at the time that the exmembers were divisive and Dave had accused them of intending to steal group funds (this was a deliberate false accusation).

Trusting in his judgement at the time, and not being present to witness the event, we gave Dave the benefit of the doubt. Nevertheless the division and loss of 49% of group members was highly disturbing, and group morale was shaken badly. The control technique of excommunication, (shunning) dissenters as practised by many authoritarian religious groups had been put into effect. It was to set in train a dangerous precedent. And 12 years later the same method was implemented again suddenly and without warning!"


[makingitreal.wixsite.com]

Ross; that poor man. Ross was with Dave (at least peripherally) for almost thirty years before he was excommunicated from the McKays' association. Roland was with Dave for twenty-nine years, and Susan was with Dave for twenty-four years. These three were kicked out in 2010. In 1998, Dave kicked his own son, and about half of the rest of the group, then re-organised and re-named the group the "Jesus Christians".

DM is positively ruthless about putting people out on the street. He does it all the time. In fact, if it wasn't for the fact that Dave puts so many people out of the group, most of these ex-members (the ones who were expelled, that is) would probably still be members. The guilt and self-blame that some of these people must carry...it must be enormous, and painful.

Ninety to ninety-five percent of the people who join up with Dave McKay and his group, leave his association in less than ten years. Of those, at least half are kicked out of the group for various reasons. This is my estimation. MOST people who are recruited into McKay's orbit, the vast majority of them, leave his association for one reason or another before too long, usually in less than ten years and usually very traumatized and scared to death from the experience. I've heard a story, about one young person who was kicked out of the group, and was terrified of going to hell for it. Dave enjoys making these people suffer; it's an expression of his sadism.

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels a shouted for joy?"




Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2020 08:16AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 29, 2020 11:01PM

To whom it may concern:

I believe that I have gotten into Dave's head. In a sense, I know him better than he knows himself; I have come to understand him intimately. I have learned to think as Dave thinks, and it's frankly terrifying. I have profiled Dave as if I was an FBI agent. I believe that I have fully apprehended Dave's mind. I believe that I fully understand him and his nature.

He's a type of serial killer, in a way; the motivation behind him doing what he does is almost exactly the same as what motivates many serial murderers: sexual sadism, and an insatiable need for power and control. He is BTK-ish like that: he wants complete control over his prey, a sense of full possession over his quarry. He wants control of SOULS.

The big difference, of course, is that Dave does not murder people outright: he uses the Bible like a weapon to do incredible damage to individuals and families, and leaves his victims alive and suffering (just as he wants them to be). The worst part to me, is his habit of kicking people out of the group and thereby (supposedly) sending them to hell.

In Every Dream Home A Heartache: this is Dave's "theme song". It suits him.

[www.youtube.com]

"In every dream home a heartache
And every step I take
Takes me further from heaven
Is there a heaven?
I'd like to think so
Standards of living
They're rising daily
But home oh sweet home
It's only a saying
From bell push to faucet
In smart town apartment
The cottage is pretty
The main house a palace
Penthouse perfection
But what goes on
What to do there
Better pray there
Open plan living
Bungalow ranch style
All of it's comforts
Seem so essential
I bought you mail order
My plain wrapper baby
Your skin is like vinyl
The perfect companion
You float my new pool
De luxe and delightful
Inflatable doll
My role is to serve you
Disposable darling
Can't throw you away now
Immortal and life size
My breath is inside you
I'll dress you up daily
And keep you till death sighs
Inflatable doll
Lover ungrateful
I blew up your body
But you blew my mind
Oh those heartaches
Dreamhome heartaches...
"

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2020 11:02PM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 30, 2020 10:07AM

Go to 34:05

[www.youtube.com]

RONSON (VO): I think it’s impossible to be objective about the kidneys. Your opinion changes in relation to the way Dave chooses to take hold of your life. Leisel’s life has been shattered, so she can see little good in it.
Cut to LEISEL: Like, you know, there’s no real plan. Like this kidney thing came to him suddenly so there’s not really any plan for the future here. He can come up with something tomorrow that’s more dangerous than what he’s doing today, and everyone will follow him.
RONSON (VO): Dave wouldn’t talk about Leisel in a face to face interview, but he sent me a message in which he repeatedly apologized for calling her a stalker. But, he said , Annette had joined the group of her own free will and wants to stay with them.
Dave sent me an email. He wrote that Christine in Scotland was dying. He said he could instruct one of his members to give her a kidney, but if he did I’d only accuse him of manipulation. So instead, he wrote, he had decided to let Christine die, and blame her death on my conscience. A few days later he sent me a video message:
CUT TO DAVE: It’s one thirty in the morning here in Australia. I’ve just received an urgent telephone from the United Kingdom. It seems that Christine in Scotland has taken a turn for the worst, and I have to make a decision immediately, if we are going to help her at all. At the moment the only person who’s available in the community to help her is Reinhardt, and he’s booked to fly to India tomorrow morning. The problem with Reinhardt is that although he’s willing to donate, he’s not very keen. I could push him into it. I have to make a decision and there’s a life depending upon it. The decision that I make is going to take into consideration the repercussions for the media, people like yourself. As you know, we stopped the filming after your article appeared in the Guardian. Amongst other things I was upset by the fact that you portrayed me as a manipulator, forcing or coercing Casey into doing something that he might later regret. I think that was terribly unfair, both to Casey and to myself. No way did I push him into doing it. I didn’t even approach him, it was his idea and he ran with it. And that’s why we decided not to cooperate with you. But now after this phone call tonight, I have had to rethink. I am prepared to go along with this documentary but only on one condition and that’s that you use this video. You see, I’m not going to say anything to Reinhardt, I’ll let him fly out tomorrow and I’ll let Christine’s blood be on your head, and the heads of the authorities there in England. Those people who felt that because a group of Christians wanted to donate their kidneys to strangers there was something wrong with us. Something needs to be done about the situation with regard to donations, live donations to people who need kidneys here and in the United Kingdom. So go ahead, make your documentary. But don’t forget to tell them about the recipients. That’s the big picture. And that’s what’s been overlooked, that these recipients are real people, people like Christine. Thank you.


“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2020 10:15AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 31, 2020 12:21AM

In 2010, Dave put out the four oldest members of the Jesus Christians: Sue (24 years with the group), Roland (29 years with the group), Ross (thirty years with the group), and Alan (three years with the group). Their offense, was questioning Dave's authority. Then Dave takes the group underground and starts again, building up a YouTube presence and rebranding the group with a younger, fresher batch of souls.

Dave is incredibly hypocritical. Dave constantly projects his own tendencies and weaknesses on to others. He's ruthless about putting people out of the group on a whim. Dave accuses somebody of being prideful, when he is the most prideful of all. Dave accuses others of trying to be leader of the group, when he is only trying to keep control of the group in his own grasp (he uses that someone else wanting to be the leader trick quite often, by the way). He says that pride is not the root of all evil; greed is. Alan was put out of the group for refusing to take his wife to court, to sue her for more money from their divorce settlement. Alan was put out of the group, in other words, for not being greedy enough to suit Dave. Where is Dave's patience, his grace? Who is Dave to preach about patience?

[www.jesuschristians.com]

"Almost all of these people have had some problems with pride, which led to their separation from us in the first place. But pride is not the root of all evil; greed is. There are so few people attacking greed in today's world, that it may be foolish of us to dismiss others who share our concerns about this great danger just because they do not measure up to our standards with regard to humility. Certainly if we can call on God's grace to forgive us for our imperfections in this area, then his forgiveness must be available to them too.

So we have decided to shift our attention (marginally) away from pride, and to focus on the need for us as leaders to exercise more patience with people who appear to be opinionated, self-willed, and/or arrogant. In the long run, love and patience may prove to be more effective in overcoming pride than expulsion. If we can keep from totally alienating people who suffer from pride (and who doesn't?), then we may be able to inspire them to deal with it. And maybe in the process they (and we) will learn something about grace as well."


“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 31, 2020 02:42AM

"Alan (a 65 year old member) was kicked out of the underground community directly on Dave's orders in February 2011 for refusing to take his wife to court to sue her for more money in a divorce settlement over the sale of their house. Alan disagreed with Dave's plan to go to court to fight his wife for a larger share of their assets and decided he would rather accept the substantial amount she was offering Alan. Dave kicked Alan out, who had been a member for two years, and claims Alan never “forsook all” (which was a requirement to join the Jesus Christians). This was very cruel of Dave because Alan had forsaken everything he could to the community and it was only the potential money that he could have taken his wife to court to fight for that Dave was accusing Alan of not forsaking! Alan’s two daughters still won't speak to him and his wife of 25 years has now divorced him."

[makingitreal.wixsite.com]-

That poor guy. Alan Wright was aged sixty-five years when Dave expelled him from the group. Alan's life was wrecked completely because if his involvement with Dave McKay. Alan was ultimately expelled for (in effect) not being greedy enough for Dave. Dave had little use for an elderly bloke like Alan in the first place, though, aside from whatever Dave could get out of him (in terms of money, property, etc.) Somebody older in the group would be a liability to Dave, since an older person would have a firmer, more established sense of himself and would be less susceptible to Dave's manipulations. That's also why Ross, Sue, and Roland were expelled: they did not want to go along with what Dave wanted, and openly questioned Dave's "authority". Dave made an example out of the four of them, and somebody like Alf or Joe would be all that much less likely to question Dave, in a similar situation in the future. That's also why Dave started over with a younger, fresher, batch of recruits: Dave likes his prey young. This is his oeuvre.

Dave and his consort are not camping out, or living in vans. They live comfortably in public housing, reportedly in Melbourne. He is amazingly hypocritical, Dave is; everybody in the group has to "forsake all" except for Dave (and his consort).

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2020 02:57AM by The Whirlwind.

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