Current Page: 789 of 792
Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 25, 2020 01:19AM

The below article serves as an example of how Dave takes your attention away from real issues which make you feel weak and vulnerable as a human being, and replaces them with a sort of pseudo-sense of being somebody special who is doing a special thing. It's called, "Those Other Apostles".

"Maybe you feel at times like Peter, James, and John are such superstars that they are out of your league. But don't forget that the Son of God had room in his tiny circle of favourite friends for some nondescripts like yourself as well.

And the list is not finished yet. The book that GOD is writing is still being written. And there's still room to have your name included amongst spiritual giants like Bartholomew and Simon the Canaanite, and James the Son of Alphaeus, and that other Judas... you know, the one no one remembers, because he did NOT betray Jesus!"


[www.jesuschristians.com]

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?"




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2020 01:20AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 25, 2020 04:42AM

"What it boils down to, is that DM hates anything or anybody that he cannot control. DM derives pleasure from manipulating people, period. If he figures he can take someone down the garden path by exploiting some ambiguity of language, then he will. But if that doesn't work, he has no problem with out and out deceit. It doesn't matter to him, the only point is to get a reaction. His behaviour is similar to that of serial murderers, who, once in custody, pretend to wish to divulge information about unsolved crimes, but really don't want anything but attention. He loves to make folks dance. He isn't concerned with his own credibility, just with exerting control over other people, whether it's by enraging them, or deceiving them, or as he must do in his work exploiting people's misery, feigning empathy. The only goal for him is to get a response that he feels he controlled. It's all about control and nothing about dialogue with DM."

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?"




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2020 04:45AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 25, 2020 06:13AM

The Whirlwind Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is my psychological analysis, my profile of
> Dave McKay: Dave has become too seduced by the
> specialness of his "calling". He takes your
> attention away from real issues which make you
> feel weak and vulnerable as a human being, and
> replaces them with a sort of pseudo-sense of being
> somebody special who is doing a special thing.
> Dave long ago drifted into a state of amorality,
> and long ago lost his moral compass (if he ever
> had one to start with). He likes the feeling of
> control he has over his disciples. He cannot stop
> himself anymore; he has no control over what he is
> doing. He's come to rely on the group to keep
> himself going. It's become such an important part
> of his identity, that he cannot give it up. He
> feels more alive in the moments when he can taunt
> and accuse his prey. The quality that shines out
> when he is doing so, is that it's almost an
> orgasmic experience for him. This is apparent
> when, for example, Dave is taunting Liesel in the
> Jeremy Kyle clip I posted earlier today. There is
> something about the experience of hurting others,
> which is important to him. He enjoys it; he is
> sadistic in that way. Dave seducing a young
> person into his group, and then taunting his or
> her family, is akin to a sexual experience for
> him. He got the opportunity to taunt Tara's
> family in the video they released the other day;
> he's had his orgasm, and now he is on to the next
> one. Dave cannot help being a predator, any more
> than water can help being wet. It's simply his
> nature. He did just just stare into the abyss, he
> fell into it a long time ago.

It is my assertion that Dave derives a certain amount of sexual pleasure in the taunting and abuse of his prey, simply because (in his writings) he writes about sex a lot, just like he writes about suicide and death a lot.

[www.jesuschristians.com]

Yes, the group is celibate and most of them (if not all of them, other than Dave and his wife) are single, but he also encourages them to masturbate. Dave does not just permit it; he encourages it and probably enjoys it himself (if he is even still capable of masturbating anymore). Dave does not elevate sex and sexuality to the insane levels that his mentor David Berg did, but there is nonetheless this perverse preoccupation with others' sexualities and sex lives that shines through when one studies Dave's writings.

If you can manipulate somebody's sexuality, then you can manipulate and re-define their personal boundaries and thus gain control over them much more easily. Dave is a masterful, just a masterful manipulator of youth. If you can take an eighteen or twenty year old average American male, and convince him to live a celibate lifestyle, then you've got him by the brain. Dave knows how to work somebody's cognitive dissonance, in order for them to find consonance HIS WAY. He knows how to get kids to enthusiastically go along with what he wants, even though it might bother their conscience (at least, at first). This also undermines their ability to feel guilt, or remorse, or natural love for their families of origin.

Take "Wanking: The Last Taboo" for example. Dave not only allows masturbation by the members of his group, he encourages it. The thought that Dave surrounds himself with young kids whose sexualities he systematically begins to manipulate...it's perverse. He must get a certain sexual thrill out of it all.

[www.jesuschristians.com]

"Anyone interested in a genuine revival of sexual morality and sincere faith should consider the possibility that the first step in that direction might be to enlighten the masses to their right (and perhaps even their responsibility) to masturbate."

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?"




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2020 06:20AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 25, 2020 08:28AM

Here is a little more:

The Jesus Christians' teachings say that they do not believe in a "clergy class" of Christian believers, but instead in "the priesthood of every believer".

"And now one final thought to put this whole study into perspective. We believe in the "priesthood of every believer". In other words, we are all spiritual leaders. Our leaders are expected to exercise authority in love. But that should not stop the followers from also exercising authority in love. Accountability is something that we must mutually agree on."

[www.jesuschristians.com]

Why, then, does Dave present himself as the "Divine Authority"? The above article is called "Accountability". To whom is Dave himself accountable?

Dave presents himself as having some kind of generalized expertise with respect to the Bible and the teaching of Jesus. He presents himself as being a compassionate man and he calls himself the "Divine Authority", though he also says that he does not believe in the authority of Biblical priesthood! So if each person has a direct relationship with God which does not need the mediator-ship of a priest (or other clergy figure) then why should anybody listen to this man who calls himself the "Divine Authority"? Dave places HIMSELF in the role of mediator, in his group. They do not have a "priest"; they have Dave McKay, the "Divine Authority".

Dave seduces kids by deceiving them, lying to them about who he is. This is exactly what the Bible warns us about in 2 Timothy 4. Dave is quite simply a modern-day Diotrephes (3 John 9-11).

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?"




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2020 08:32AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 25, 2020 10:46AM

Dave encourages his disciples to donate their kidneys, lobes of their livers and lungs, the females their eggs, etc. The international law enforcement community is aware of Dave McKay and his group's activities. The FBI and Australian law enforcement are aware of the group. Dave and his wife live in Australian public housing, and both receive pensions from the Australian government. Not much can be done, because Dave is careful to (generally) stay on the right side of the law.

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?"




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2020 10:49AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 26, 2020 12:05AM

"My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment." --James 3:1 (NKJV)

"The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil." --1 Timothy 3:1-7 (ESV)

The above Scriptures disqualify Dave McKay from having any kind of leadership or overseer role in the Church. Dave cannot manage to keep his own family together, and some of his own children do not like him. So what makes him think he can successfully manage somebody else's children? Who is he to put himself above the rest of the Body of Christ, and tell us about what God's unlimited grace is and is not all about? He seems to have a lot of contempt for anybody who disagrees with him. Where is Dave's grace, his love?

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?"




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2020 12:07AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 26, 2020 12:20AM

"This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you—if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." --Titus 1:5-9 (ESV)

The above Scriptures further disqualify Dave McKay from having any kind of leadership or overseer role in the Church. Dave cannot manage to keep his own family together, and some of his own children do not like him. They do not even believe in God anymore. So what makes him think he can successfully manage somebody else's children? He has completely failed as a father, to his own kids! Thus, according to the Bible, Dave McKay is disqualified from being a leader. Dave McKay is simply a fraud, according to the Bible. This is important considering that McKay uses the Bible like a weapon to manipulate people.

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?"




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2020 12:23AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 26, 2020 01:50AM

The way I see it, the Jesus Christians really do not know what they believe, other than that 1) They are personally and spiritually superior to the rest of The Church, as well as to society in general and 2) (related to 1) that everybody is a hypocrite except for them. Jesus Christian belief and world view seem to pretty much boil down to those two points.

The Jesus Christians' members like to freely spread the thought amongst themselves that no one on the earth holds a valid view point on any subject except for members of their group.

Most people would (and do) respond to that arrogant idea by simply saying, “they’re crazy.”

I am of the opinion that Mr. and Mrs. McKay are very disappointed that they didn't become major "players" who got to lead a "movement" of their own.

From Armageddon for Beginners:

Solomon was a good man; but he can't hold a candle to Christ. Nor can anyone who was ever born. As Christ said in prophecies about the last days, people will find many replacements for the true Messiah. (Matthew 24:24) But when they do, their replacement (whoever it may be) becomes an antichrist. (I John 2:18; II John 6-7) The so-called Christian church would rather follow St. Paul, or the Pope, or Billy Graham, or, for that matter, Solomon, than to follow Christ.


See also The Fall of America, Just Do It! and Bin Raiders for writings about Billy Graham.

The Jesus Christians, in like manner, are following David McKay rather than following Christ.

But it's hard to see the picture when you're in the frame, right?

David McKay is implying something in the above texts about how God chose Billy Graham to be an apostle and raise up communities, but Graham chose to defile his conscience in the pursuit of world renown as an evangelist. McKay is basically saying that Billy Graham loves power and fame more than his calling.

In talking in such a disparaging manner about Billy Graham, David McKay gives a really good definition of himself, as it is obvious to me that he loves power and acclaim.

However, the Jesus Christians' "know it all attitude" thankfully only puts people off, and attracts only a mere unfortunate few.

The God of the Jesus Christians punishes and fails to forgive. DM constantly criticizes the faults, weak points and lacks of denominational churches. DM has a knack for identifying the inconsistencies and hypocrisies within the churches, but he also belittles them. DM puts words to what many people, especially young people, feel. There is still this 60’s and early 70’s-style rebellious streak that is still in him; he doesn’t want to cooperate with The System. He continually berates many Christians, even though a considerable number of them have over the years aided him in his work of forming and maintaining the JCs.

If a cult leader maintains control of a follower’s mind, then they can manipulate them. They don’t need to go after their money directly or steal from them. If the cult leader exerts and continues control over the followers mind, then he has access to everything that belongs to the follower.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is my opinion of DM. Every former member that I have read of expresses the same thought about DM and his lust for power and control. The early JCs began with some honorable intentions, but as DM garnered more and more power he became blinded. He is leading all the JCs into a ditch.

In making these statements I am not interested in seeking revenge nor am I trying to be cruel. I am trying to inform people so they can make a choice based on facts. We all know that the JCs will never change as long as DM is the sole uncontested leader. DM may write new teachings or they may live in new places or they may wear their hair different or wear different clothes but the basic theme will always be obedience to DM and his teachings. DM exercises sole unchallenged control over the JCs with no one to keep him in check. DM promotes the idea of checks and balances in his teachings, and that no one person should ever exert sole leadership of a religious movement or community, but his own lifestyle runs contrary to his teachings.

The JCs maintains its own criteria for judging fruit which states “Judge a tree by its fruit. If the fruit is rotten the tree is rotten.” They proclaim that the JCs are for everyone and that those who fail to respond will suffer physical and spiritual death. Community members believe that Jesus only grants protection to them. Young adults leave their parents to join with the JCs. The man and wife relationship is repeatedly tempered with, as well. Because people can’t implicitly obey David McKay some have attempted suicide. Some ex-members have reportedly committed suicide. Although the JCs outwardly promote personal relationships with non-members, these friendships are not allowed to develop or flourish. Many remain in the JCs 5 or 10 years, or for however long, and then get kicked out or they may decide to leave which reduces them to zero financially, spiritually and emotionally. What kind of shape are these folks reduced to after contact with the JCs? This is the visible fruit of the Jesus Christians.

The Jesus Christians should use their own criteria to judge themselves. If they did they would disband and everyone would leave today.

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?"




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2020 01:52AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 26, 2020 07:36AM

Here are some notes one Dave's obsession with "Empowerment Charts" and "Mental Graphs". Dave apparently has something of a compulsion to graph and chart everything. This is a clever device, perhaps too clever for Dave; he probably lifted the practice from someplace, and then incorporated it into his group.

Dave will find out what someone's little (or big) weaknesses are. Forget to brush your teeth? OK, let's have a little chart, 3 boxes for 7 days, times four to make a month. Tick when you remember to brush your teeth. Have a look at your results, see the trend. Usually forget morning brush during weekdays. Fix that.

It's a way of maintaining control, at the same time taking power, and putting the recruit into the defensive, guilty role. At the same time Dave appears to be the brilliant saviour. How can you question Dave's decisions about the rest of your life when you keep forgetting to brush your teeth?

One effect is that you feel you're never good enough. So you better stick around. This is your only chance. But wait, it gets worse; brushing your teeth is trivial stuff. Try this: Jesus will need us to be really together people when he comes back soon and gets us to rule the nations.

I doubt whether Dave is neurotically obsessed with charts and graphs for their own sake, or for the fun of it. It's all to do with power, and control.

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?"




Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2020 07:46AM by The Whirlwind.

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Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: July 27, 2020 01:58AM

7:21. Dave is a liar. He does not live "on the streets". He lives a very comfortable life, in Australian public housing, with his wife. Living on the streets, my arse.

[www.youtube.com]

Jesus Christians members live under constant fear and are scared to death. Fear is what holds them in the "community." Dave instills intense fear in his members. Jesus Christians' day to day life must be difficult and exceedingly stressful because the members live in constant fear. Fear is the glue that holds them together. Dave expels people from the group routinely, and calls it "tough love". Dave gives all the tough, but none of the love, to these unfortunate victims of his. Here is evidence of the iron-clad control Dave has oever his disciples. From "Ananiases":

"We need to make these people aware that it is a privilege to even be considered as a potential disciple. We need to have the confidence to deal with greed, pride, fear, and dishonesty, if the Spirit is telling us that it is time to act.

This is particularly true when you get several people making moves to join at the same time. You need to make a bit of a spiritual race out of it, with the last person across the finish line being expelled. What I mean by that is that you look at how much the two, three, or more new disciples are hungering after the truth, and you eliminate the one who seems to be the least hungry. In fact, you could even include some of the older disciples in that kind of a competition.

Remember, that if you make an example of a few slackards, it will pay dividends in those who are left. If you don't, then what will happen is that they will each look at what the others have gotten away with, and they'll add everyone else's bad habits and sins to their own personal sins, and we'll end up with an army full of self-willed, rebellious trouble-makers.

This is not a holiday camp. It is an army, and we're involved in a war. There will be casualties. There will be costs. And for those who survive, there will be victories. But if anyone wants to be a part of this army, then they need to get it clear that they must obey orders."



[www.jesuschristians.com]

"Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels shouted for joy?"




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2020 01:59AM by The Whirlwind.

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