Re: Universal medicine
Posted by:
John lazuras
()
Date: August 15, 2012 09:14AM
As quoted from the UM web site:
"Illness or disease is not the outcome of a random event or genetic predisposition, but the product of ill choices and the resulting energetic disharmony (anger, self loathing, disregard, not expressing truth) that we have been content to live with over many years or even lives before the disharmony manifests much later as symptoms or as a diagnosable condition"
This is why you must ensure that you keep an eye on your LOVED ones, they will try and clear these "ill choices" by using UM treatments and in many cases when they cannot and the sickness has got worse they then reluctantly go to the Doctor for treatment. I have seen many of these UMers when they have to go to the Doctor for treatment they feel that they have failed in the Esoteric way of life, as they have not been able to clear these ill choices /prana from their body.
"Illness or disease is not the outcome of a random event or genetic predisposition, but the product of ill choices and the resulting energetic disharmony (anger, self loathing, disregard, not expressing truth) that we have been content to live with over many years or even lives before the disharmony manifests much later as symptoms or as a diagnosable condition"
This is why you must ensure that you keep an eye on your LOVED ones, they will try and clear these "ill choices" by using UM treatments and in many cases when they cannot and the sickness has got worse they then reluctantly go to the Doctor for treatment. I have seen many of these UMers when they have to go to the Doctor for treatment they feel that they have failed in the Esoteric way of life, as they have not been able to clear these ill choices /prana from their body.
Re: Universal medicine
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: August 16, 2012 03:58AM
Saddest of all, if they delay consulting a trained and licensed MD, there is a risk that the illness may be at a point where satisfactory treatment is much more difficult, or even impossible.
A person will feel like a failure in the esoteric realm for having left the iniates to dare consult an outsider MD.
If told their condition is difficult or impossible to treat because they waited too long, this may compound the victim's feeling of having failed as an intiate and paying a deserved penalty for the condition being untreatable even by a non UM practitioner.
Its fear induction and a set up for double bind.
The real mess is scaring people into avoiding evidence based medicine, being at risk of preventable and treatable conditions by avoiding regular health check ups and giving up exercise, plus the stress of trying to obey Serges every changing prescriptions.
By staying with some evidence based medical care, and not following a charismatic guru whokeeps changing his own rules, this could be avoided.
Keep in mind friends, no one was recruited because she or he was stupid.
Full disclosure of what the UMcommmitment would actulaly require was not told them early in the process.
Even friends who drew them into UM may not, at the time, been aware of the full demand of what would be required.
In evidence based medicine, you are told, clearly what the risks and probable benefits are.
A person will feel like a failure in the esoteric realm for having left the iniates to dare consult an outsider MD.
If told their condition is difficult or impossible to treat because they waited too long, this may compound the victim's feeling of having failed as an intiate and paying a deserved penalty for the condition being untreatable even by a non UM practitioner.
Its fear induction and a set up for double bind.
The real mess is scaring people into avoiding evidence based medicine, being at risk of preventable and treatable conditions by avoiding regular health check ups and giving up exercise, plus the stress of trying to obey Serges every changing prescriptions.
By staying with some evidence based medical care, and not following a charismatic guru whokeeps changing his own rules, this could be avoided.
Keep in mind friends, no one was recruited because she or he was stupid.
Full disclosure of what the UMcommmitment would actulaly require was not told them early in the process.
Even friends who drew them into UM may not, at the time, been aware of the full demand of what would be required.
In evidence based medicine, you are told, clearly what the risks and probable benefits are.
Re: Universal medicine
Posted by:
COncerned Partner
()
Date: August 16, 2012 10:17AM
Hi JL and Corboy
There is no doubt at all that people involved with UM are not responding to evidence based medicine like they should to varying degrees. While Serge often says he supports Western Medicine, conditionally, and has disclaimers on his site- the overall imputation of what he is saying gives a different impression. If he were not setting himself up as an alternative, then why the word "Medicine" in the name of his business?
I have heard of many anecdotal cases where serious illnesses are not being attended to in the belief that clearing of bad energies via healing sessions and Chakra-punctures will mitigate, repair or help heal the problem. I will try and find a link to a scientific American Article recently which did a 10 year study on people having alternative healing vs the general population in terms of remissions and recovery and the rate of difference was zero. What happens in these groups is they hear of the times someone goes into remission or recovers ( and when many people have been seen over many years there will be quite a few cases statistically) and those stories get remembered and passed around. Of course all the other stories of people who did not recover or got worse by delaying treatments, are not told or forgotten. Again, confirmation bias at work.
These 'confirmation narratives' are powerful- It's sort of like telling a ghost story which makes your spine tingle and you start thinking it must be true, (but if you have any sense, later realizing in your whole life, you have never seen a ghost)
On a slightly different topic, let's see how Serge also ensures that none of his students will look to other guru's ( which he says he is not) He is so advanced, he can tell the 'energies' that have attached to them, and can even conjure them out of the astral planes and insert them at will in his students.
A Demonstration of the Affect of Guru Energy
The guru energy was then demonstrated on stage with 5 volunteers to have guru energy placed in them by Serge and 5 volunteers to sit at each guru’s feet .Before “the devotees” took up their positions they each voiced the hindrance (guna) they where aware of at the time.
The 1st volunteer was given a 7th degree cosmic being liken to Sai Baba - she immediately looked like a robot and felt menacing and vacuous .The volunteer devotee elected that her problem was contraction .She collapsed as the energy overtook.
The 2nd volunteer was given a 5th degree cosmic being like Osho - she looked immediately smug and superior . the “devotee” said her problem was self-pity and instantly became smug as the energy overtook
“the guru”.
The 3rd volunteer had a 7th degree cosmic being like St John of God - she took on the appearance of a man seemingly taller than she was previously and very imposing . Her “devotee’s” problem was self pity and self doubt .She also appeared to collapse as the energy overtook.
The 4th was in the energy as Brandon Bays, she felt as if she was on a serious mission to save the world .She had on board a 4th degree cosmic being. She feel strong and defiant .Her “devotee” said her self-doubt turned into defiance.
The 5th volunteer was given a7th degree cosmic being like the hugging mother Arma and instantly took on a proud motherly appearance .The “devotee’s” problem was grief and she then became bathed in grief and felt like she was nailed to the floor.
I would love to know the entity Serge is carrying around. Not that I in anyway believe it, but if it were true, I have my thoughts but I'll let you draw your own conclusions: Alice A Bailey trust is called the "Lucis Trust"- it was called the "Lucifer Trust"- Lucifer is a "fiery" angel that fell from Gods grace (supposedly if you believe that stuff). Serge says he was Alice A Bailey.
Tomorrow I have some lovely and enlightened stuff on why you should 'slap your boys' and why Africa is godless and less advanced, and how charity is a delusion and evil.
The Poetry, wisdom and Beauty of UM. Truly a gift to mankind.
There is no doubt at all that people involved with UM are not responding to evidence based medicine like they should to varying degrees. While Serge often says he supports Western Medicine, conditionally, and has disclaimers on his site- the overall imputation of what he is saying gives a different impression. If he were not setting himself up as an alternative, then why the word "Medicine" in the name of his business?
I have heard of many anecdotal cases where serious illnesses are not being attended to in the belief that clearing of bad energies via healing sessions and Chakra-punctures will mitigate, repair or help heal the problem. I will try and find a link to a scientific American Article recently which did a 10 year study on people having alternative healing vs the general population in terms of remissions and recovery and the rate of difference was zero. What happens in these groups is they hear of the times someone goes into remission or recovers ( and when many people have been seen over many years there will be quite a few cases statistically) and those stories get remembered and passed around. Of course all the other stories of people who did not recover or got worse by delaying treatments, are not told or forgotten. Again, confirmation bias at work.
These 'confirmation narratives' are powerful- It's sort of like telling a ghost story which makes your spine tingle and you start thinking it must be true, (but if you have any sense, later realizing in your whole life, you have never seen a ghost)
On a slightly different topic, let's see how Serge also ensures that none of his students will look to other guru's ( which he says he is not) He is so advanced, he can tell the 'energies' that have attached to them, and can even conjure them out of the astral planes and insert them at will in his students.
A Demonstration of the Affect of Guru Energy
The guru energy was then demonstrated on stage with 5 volunteers to have guru energy placed in them by Serge and 5 volunteers to sit at each guru’s feet .Before “the devotees” took up their positions they each voiced the hindrance (guna) they where aware of at the time.
The 1st volunteer was given a 7th degree cosmic being liken to Sai Baba - she immediately looked like a robot and felt menacing and vacuous .The volunteer devotee elected that her problem was contraction .She collapsed as the energy overtook.
The 2nd volunteer was given a 5th degree cosmic being like Osho - she looked immediately smug and superior . the “devotee” said her problem was self-pity and instantly became smug as the energy overtook
“the guru”.
The 3rd volunteer had a 7th degree cosmic being like St John of God - she took on the appearance of a man seemingly taller than she was previously and very imposing . Her “devotee’s” problem was self pity and self doubt .She also appeared to collapse as the energy overtook.
The 4th was in the energy as Brandon Bays, she felt as if she was on a serious mission to save the world .She had on board a 4th degree cosmic being. She feel strong and defiant .Her “devotee” said her self-doubt turned into defiance.
The 5th volunteer was given a7th degree cosmic being like the hugging mother Arma and instantly took on a proud motherly appearance .The “devotee’s” problem was grief and she then became bathed in grief and felt like she was nailed to the floor.
I would love to know the entity Serge is carrying around. Not that I in anyway believe it, but if it were true, I have my thoughts but I'll let you draw your own conclusions: Alice A Bailey trust is called the "Lucis Trust"- it was called the "Lucifer Trust"- Lucifer is a "fiery" angel that fell from Gods grace (supposedly if you believe that stuff). Serge says he was Alice A Bailey.
Tomorrow I have some lovely and enlightened stuff on why you should 'slap your boys' and why Africa is godless and less advanced, and how charity is a delusion and evil.
The Poetry, wisdom and Beauty of UM. Truly a gift to mankind.
Re: Universal medicine
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: August 16, 2012 11:04PM
A note on the entire New Age scene
A quick way to tell if you are in a toxic part of this social milieu, even before you have met a guru or group is see if you get frowns or are scolded if you use the valid term
'victim'.
Its in the dictionary. Journalists, newspapers, emergency room personnel, fire fighters, police officers, and health care professionals use it all the time.
You have been victimized when you've been injured.
Injured by something or by someone.
Remove the word 'victim' from the mental vocabulary, and people who have had bad stuff done TO them are without the word they need to get an accurate understanding that someone else is victimizing them.
Without the word 'victim' one cannot construct a map by which to understand and orient oneself to a set up where one has been DONE TO.
WIthout the term victim, the very persons who have been DONE TO, are without a mental map needed to name their hurt and name their assailant.
Thats the hazard of all these "You make your own reality/thus there are no victim' set ups.
They do give expansive feelings of self empowerment.
But these set ups take away the genuine power of having a full vocabulary by which one can map what is being done to you.
To put a ban on the word victim is an early step in manipulating and loading the language.
Even if one is not in a bad group with a leader, social settings that forbid use of the word victim are setting denizens up to be without the language resources they will need in case they incur harm and have to create a map to understand their situation and get out.
A very clever rhetorical move is for some to suggest that it "insults adult autonomy" to dare refer to someone as a victim and therefore not to use the word.
Victim applies precisely to persons who have been harmed enough as to lose some or all of their adult autonomy--whether left with a limp after an accident, or unconscious from smoke caused by a fire, or loss of friends and family by adhering to a set of teachings that take an adversarial stance toward skeptics, etc.
Its a similar rehtorical gambit trick when people try to forbid use of the term "cult".
Without this sociological and psychologically valid term, in use for decades and applied using strict guidelines, without the term cult, we lack a map and a set of diagnostic procedures by which some situations cannot be fully understood.
So when someone doesnt want you to use the word 'victim' they're trying to rob you of a mental skill that you already possess.
They may not even be aware of what they are doing.
Dont let your vocabulary be taken from you.
Use your vocabulary skillfully, be a life long student.
But watch out for people who want to take certain words away from you or try to turn the words into jokes or terms of ridicule, at expense of those harmed.
A quick way to tell if you are in a toxic part of this social milieu, even before you have met a guru or group is see if you get frowns or are scolded if you use the valid term
'victim'.
Its in the dictionary. Journalists, newspapers, emergency room personnel, fire fighters, police officers, and health care professionals use it all the time.
Quote
Victim | Define Victim at Dictionary.coma person who suffers from a destructive or injurious action or agency: a victim of
an automobile accident. 2. a person who is deceived or cheated, as by his or her ...
dictionary.reference.com/browse/victim - 74k - Cached - Similar pages
You have been victimized when you've been injured.
Injured by something or by someone.
Remove the word 'victim' from the mental vocabulary, and people who have had bad stuff done TO them are without the word they need to get an accurate understanding that someone else is victimizing them.
Without the word 'victim' one cannot construct a map by which to understand and orient oneself to a set up where one has been DONE TO.
WIthout the term victim, the very persons who have been DONE TO, are without a mental map needed to name their hurt and name their assailant.
Thats the hazard of all these "You make your own reality/thus there are no victim' set ups.
They do give expansive feelings of self empowerment.
But these set ups take away the genuine power of having a full vocabulary by which one can map what is being done to you.
To put a ban on the word victim is an early step in manipulating and loading the language.
Even if one is not in a bad group with a leader, social settings that forbid use of the word victim are setting denizens up to be without the language resources they will need in case they incur harm and have to create a map to understand their situation and get out.
A very clever rhetorical move is for some to suggest that it "insults adult autonomy" to dare refer to someone as a victim and therefore not to use the word.
Victim applies precisely to persons who have been harmed enough as to lose some or all of their adult autonomy--whether left with a limp after an accident, or unconscious from smoke caused by a fire, or loss of friends and family by adhering to a set of teachings that take an adversarial stance toward skeptics, etc.
Its a similar rehtorical gambit trick when people try to forbid use of the term "cult".
Without this sociological and psychologically valid term, in use for decades and applied using strict guidelines, without the term cult, we lack a map and a set of diagnostic procedures by which some situations cannot be fully understood.
So when someone doesnt want you to use the word 'victim' they're trying to rob you of a mental skill that you already possess.
They may not even be aware of what they are doing.
Dont let your vocabulary be taken from you.
Use your vocabulary skillfully, be a life long student.
But watch out for people who want to take certain words away from you or try to turn the words into jokes or terms of ridicule, at expense of those harmed.
Re: Universal medicine
Posted by:
MacReady
()
Date: August 17, 2012 05:29PM
Bump.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 05:37PM by MacReady.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 05:37PM by MacReady.
Re: Universal medicine
Posted by:
COncerned Partner
()
Date: August 17, 2012 08:28PM
[aca.ninemsn.com.au]
Nice. Serge calls it 'scurrillous and unfair'- Try being one of the many familes you have helped bust up Serge! Your are scurillous and a lot more my deluded friend.
Again the assertion is a 'few men' even though he was so confused he gave away it was many.
And then here it is again, tonight I randomly spoke to someone who overheard what I was saying about the illustrious UM, who promptly informed me that two of their friends have separated from the long term girlfirend and wife because of Universal Medicine. What do you think are the chances that any random conversation will result in discovering this? Very low, unless of course there are MANY broken families. Of course, that is the reason and none other.
My prediction is that if there are 2000 women involved in UM, take away the ones that are already single and out of the balance 80% or more will be spit up or on the verge. Do a head count UM people next time you have a course, like this weekend od cult festivities and money taking. Maybe the reality might snap you out of your fantasies and make you understand that the cause of your singleness is right under you nose in the form of of a 5 foot 7 self proclaimed master. ( but when on TV, just a simple man...)
The women on this video say that the problems already existed and had nothing to do with UM. Well, we have already seen the lovely instructions Serge has given at his EDG's that your family will either align or not ( I think the words are HATE it or not) , and that by being in your gentlessness, it will reject them. We know that at his recent retreats he told 'students' to start living the work rather than talking about it, ( while casually announcing he was the master from Shambhalla) and that it may cause chaos in their familes, but hey, it is the new era ( case closed) , and we know he sends emails telling his students to be in their glory and not to let people hold them back....
So, again i say, maybe there were issues in marriages. Of course. But if your partner is in UM, and you think it is a con, then there is of course no chance of a relationship working. It can't help, as I experienced, that your partner spends much of their time and money, on UM to the exclusion of the relationship. Seems to me an obvious cop out not to take responsibility for that...Therefore, the issue IS Univeral medicine because it stands between you and having a sensible conversation and a proper two way fair and adult interaction with your partner.
Good work Serge 'sacrficing' some 'hand picked' women for your cause. Nothing odd at all that they would become poster girls for you if you are just a simple healer.... nothing odd at all.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 08:40PM by COncerned Partner.
Nice. Serge calls it 'scurrillous and unfair'- Try being one of the many familes you have helped bust up Serge! Your are scurillous and a lot more my deluded friend.
Again the assertion is a 'few men' even though he was so confused he gave away it was many.
And then here it is again, tonight I randomly spoke to someone who overheard what I was saying about the illustrious UM, who promptly informed me that two of their friends have separated from the long term girlfirend and wife because of Universal Medicine. What do you think are the chances that any random conversation will result in discovering this? Very low, unless of course there are MANY broken families. Of course, that is the reason and none other.
My prediction is that if there are 2000 women involved in UM, take away the ones that are already single and out of the balance 80% or more will be spit up or on the verge. Do a head count UM people next time you have a course, like this weekend od cult festivities and money taking. Maybe the reality might snap you out of your fantasies and make you understand that the cause of your singleness is right under you nose in the form of of a 5 foot 7 self proclaimed master. ( but when on TV, just a simple man...)
The women on this video say that the problems already existed and had nothing to do with UM. Well, we have already seen the lovely instructions Serge has given at his EDG's that your family will either align or not ( I think the words are HATE it or not) , and that by being in your gentlessness, it will reject them. We know that at his recent retreats he told 'students' to start living the work rather than talking about it, ( while casually announcing he was the master from Shambhalla) and that it may cause chaos in their familes, but hey, it is the new era ( case closed) , and we know he sends emails telling his students to be in their glory and not to let people hold them back....
So, again i say, maybe there were issues in marriages. Of course. But if your partner is in UM, and you think it is a con, then there is of course no chance of a relationship working. It can't help, as I experienced, that your partner spends much of their time and money, on UM to the exclusion of the relationship. Seems to me an obvious cop out not to take responsibility for that...Therefore, the issue IS Univeral medicine because it stands between you and having a sensible conversation and a proper two way fair and adult interaction with your partner.
Good work Serge 'sacrficing' some 'hand picked' women for your cause. Nothing odd at all that they would become poster girls for you if you are just a simple healer.... nothing odd at all.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2012 08:40PM by COncerned Partner.
Re: Universal medicine
Posted by:
Eric Dobbs
()
Date: August 17, 2012 11:32PM
Quote
John lazuras
As quoted from the UM web site:
"Illness or disease is not the outcome of a random event or genetic predisposition, but the product of ill choices and the resulting energetic disharmony (anger, self loathing, disregard, not expressing truth) that we have been content to live with over many years or even lives before the disharmony manifests much later as symptoms or as a diagnosable condition ".
So Serge what do you say to those people in all those countries that might have, through no fault of their own contracted AIDS or Polio or all the conditions associated with hunger and malnutrition etc.? - 'Oh sorry you poor bastards but you are in this situation because of your ill
choices and the resulting energetic disharmony you've created for yourselves'. And what about the newly born that has a heart condition, or a child with some developmental problems that require constant
care and attention?- ' It's all your fault for doing what you did in your previous lives - so suck it up !'
And what do you say to all those nurses , doctors and field workers operating in desperate circumstances in 3rd world countries helping the sick and suffering ? -' Don't bother guys ,you'd be better off spending your time with me and my cult - Universal Medicine.'
So you see readers and newcomers to this forum , we are not just angry men but angry citizens who believe that serge benhayon is an inhumane and heartless moron in charge of an extremely dangerous CULT.
Re: Universal medicine
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: August 17, 2012 11:49PM
Same could be said even more forcefully about hemophilia, sickle cell anemia, huntingdon's chorea, thalassemia, and other clearly inherited conditions.
Also, look at conditions transmitted by bites from vectors--malaria, yellow fever, dengue fever, West Nile virus, typhus (lice), lyme disease (ticks) borrelia (ticks) and rabies (bites from infected animals.
And...lets not forget those who get ill by being envenomed from certain types of jellyfish, snakes and spiders. Some are tiny kids, too young to know better.
Also, look at conditions transmitted by bites from vectors--malaria, yellow fever, dengue fever, West Nile virus, typhus (lice), lyme disease (ticks) borrelia (ticks) and rabies (bites from infected animals.
And...lets not forget those who get ill by being envenomed from certain types of jellyfish, snakes and spiders. Some are tiny kids, too young to know better.
Re: Universal medicine
Posted by:
Eric Dobbs
()
Date: August 17, 2012 11:49PM
Take heart Ladies and Gentlemen, in the last month this forum has had 15,000 visitors- that's 500 per day !! And the most dodgy quote of the week goes to - yes you guessed it -Serge Benhayon for - " I wouldn't even know how to run a cult' .Keep them coming serge - we're lovin' 'em. - Eric
Re: Universal medicine
Posted by:
HerbertKane178
()
Date: August 18, 2012 02:08AM
The accusation that it is just a few unhappy men causing all the media interest in UM is wearing rather thin. It's easy to try and "smear" anyone who speaks out against you, but the overwhelming tide of voices are all saying the same thing. Both reports in the mainstream media (Sydney Morning Herald and The Medical Observer) feature comments from women, this forum has women contributors, as did Yvonne's blog (posted in full near the start of this thread - well worth a read if you have never done so). Serge's persecution delusion may well be believed by his faithful minions, but to the wider world exactly what he is, and what Universal Medicine is, is becoming extremely clear.
I would love to see the rest of the footage from the start of the report where Serge is appearing rather angry on his doorstep, hopefully a longer version may appear online.
I would love to see the rest of the footage from the start of the report where Serge is appearing rather angry on his doorstep, hopefully a longer version may appear online.
Quote
COncerned Partner
http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/article/8518108/healing-community-dubbed-cult
Nice. Serge calls it 'scurrillous and unfair'- Try being one of the many familes you have helped bust up Serge! Your are scurillous and a lot more my deluded friend.
Again the assertion is a 'few men' even though he was so confused he gave away it was many.
And then here it is again, tonight I randomly spoke to someone who overheard what I was saying about the illustrious UM, who promptly informed me that two of their friends have separated from the long term girlfirend and wife because of Universal Medicine. What do you think are the chances that any random conversation will result in discovering this? Very low, unless of course there are MANY broken families. Of course, that is the reason and none other.
My prediction is that if there are 2000 women involved in UM, take away the ones that are already single and out of the balance 80% or more will be spit up or on the verge. Do a head count UM people next time you have a course, like this weekend od cult festivities and money taking. Maybe the reality might snap you out of your fantasies and make you understand that the cause of your singleness is right under you nose in the form of of a 5 foot 7 self proclaimed master. ( but when on TV, just a simple man...)
The women on this video say that the problems already existed and had nothing to do with UM. Well, we have already seen the lovely instructions Serge has given at his EDG's that your family will either align or not ( I think the words are HATE it or not) , and that by being in your gentlessness, it will reject them. We know that at his recent retreats he told 'students' to start living the work rather than talking about it, ( while casually announcing he was the master from Shambhalla) and that it may cause chaos in their familes, but hey, it is the new era ( case closed) , and we know he sends emails telling his students to be in their glory and not to let people hold them back....
So, again i say, maybe there were issues in marriages. Of course. But if your partner is in UM, and you think it is a con, then there is of course no chance of a relationship working. It can't help, as I experienced, that your partner spends much of their time and money, on UM to the exclusion of the relationship. Seems to me an obvious cop out not to take responsibility for that...Therefore, the issue IS Univeral medicine because it stands between you and having a sensible conversation and a proper two way fair and adult interaction with your partner.
Good work Serge 'sacrficing' some 'hand picked' women for your cause. Nothing odd at all that they would become poster girls for you if you are just a simple healer.... nothing odd at all.
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