Hello All!

Thank goodness for this place. You folks are providing a great service.

So heres my situation:

I am a musician. During a conversation with one of my bandmates last year, he tells me that he is subbing out our gig that weekend to attend a Landmark seminar.

I had heard second-hand accounts of Landmark (brief "What a scam!" kind of stuff) so my immediate reaction was to laugh and say "Man, isn't that a cult?" He got really angry and gave some lekkie-speak "unlocking your personal potential" rant. He had not even attended the Forum, yet it seems he was already under the spell.

After participating in the brainwashing...er... Forum, he was riding a wave of euphoria. I admit that I saw some changes in his personality that could be interpreted as positive -- more outspoken, decisive and an inflated sense of self-esteem. However, the perceived benefits eroded quickly into a sense of impending doom.

Last week a long string of events (including phone calls from concerned friends, a ton of missed gigs and various other Landmark inspired chaos) culminates in him calling me up "just to tell me that he thinks I'm a good guy and to see if I would be interested in coming to his house to attend an Introduction meeting".

So, I agreed to go -- Id like to see if an informed and friendly presence might finally stir up some critical thinking.


That brings me here -- to the people have lived this stuff on both sides. Im trying to formulate a plan for disrupting this recruitment drive...Any ideas?

Keep in mind - I still have to gig with this guy so I really dont want to alienate him... i.e. go the route of tough love.

Can anyone tell me what to expect at a typical "Intro to LE"? Do they run it like a mini-Forum?



My thoughts so far are that I should:

--Try to learn as much of the lekkie talk that I can so I can expect it and probe for further explanations (in english)

--Be happy and pleasant. Even if on the inside I want to jump up and scalp the LE guy, just stay calm and keep on smiling :-)

--Ask a lot of questions regarding LEC as a corporation. Origins, profitability, labour practices... ect

--Not let them entice me into any Forum-type exercises. "Oh, I have no interest in test driving the "technology" yet... Id just like learn how it works



Ive heard through his roommates that attendance should be low -- maybe 6, 2 being the ILP trainees -- So I not too concerned about shouted down by a huge group of lekkies.

So what do you think? Do I even have a chance of bringing him back?

I hope so...


On a side note -- I watched the French TV3 doc the other night and it looks like I only have part one ... is the rest of it floating around somewhere?

Thanks

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hatotheno
Hello All!

Thank goodness for this place. You folks are providing a great service.

So heres my situation:

I am a musician. During a conversation with one of my bandmates last year, he tells me that he is subbing out our gig that weekend to attend a Landmark seminar.

I had heard second-hand accounts of Landmark (brief "What a scam!" kind of stuff) so my immediate reaction was to laugh and say "Man, isn't that a cult?" He got really angry and gave some lekkie-speak "unlocking your personal potential" rant. He had not even attended the Forum, yet it seems he was already under the spell.

After participating in the brainwashing...er... Forum, he was riding a wave of euphoria. I admit that I saw some changes in his personality that could be interpreted as positive -- more outspoken, decisive and an inflated sense of self-esteem. However, the perceived benefits eroded quickly into a sense of impending doom.

Last week a long string of events (including phone calls from concerned friends, a ton of missed gigs and various other Landmark inspired chaos) culminates in him calling me up "just to tell me that he thinks I'm a good guy and to see if I would be interested in coming to his house to attend an Introduction meeting".

So, I agreed to go -- Id like to see if an informed and friendly presence might finally stir up some critical thinking.


That brings me here -- to the people have lived this stuff on both sides. Im trying to formulate a plan for disrupting this recruitment drive...Any ideas?

Keep in mind - I still have to gig with this guy so I really dont want to alienate him... i.e. go the route of tough love.

Can anyone tell me what to expect at a typical "Intro to LE"? Do they run it like a mini-Forum?



My thoughts so far are that I should:

--Try to learn as much of the lekkie talk that I can so I can expect it and probe for further explanations (in english)

--Be happy and pleasant. Even if on the inside I want to jump up and scalp the LE guy, just stay calm and keep on smiling :-)

--Ask a lot of questions regarding LEC as a corporation. Origins, profitability, labour practices... ect

--Not let them entice me into any Forum-type exercises. "Oh, I have no interest in test driving the "technology" yet... Id just like learn how it works



Ive heard through his roommates that attendance should be low -- maybe 6, 2 being the ILP trainees -- So I not too concerned about shouted down by a huge group of lekkies.

So what do you think? Do I even have a chance of bringing him back?

I hope so...


On a side note -- I watched the French TV3 doc the other night and it looks like I only have part one ... is the rest of it floating around somewhere?

Thanks

You will not be given an opportunity to speak about anything that seems contradictory to what the introduction leader is trying to sell to prospective forum participants. There will be a 'plant' or two in that introduction to 'assist' the leader with any difficult attendees. The intro leader will NOT give a straight answer or explanation to any of your inquiries. The introduction meeting will not provide the platform you need from which to save your friend.
Keep in mind, logic and common sense does not apply to a lekkie's process of reasoning and deduction, your questions and contradictions will only be viewed as someone who [i:150de61e55]really needs a forum [/i:150de61e55]or someone who is just being difficult and running a racket. You will be there on their turf, as a potential recruit. You will hear nothing but praise for landmark and bullshit lekkie explanations as to why landmark education is believed to be a cult. You will be challenged to attend a forum before making any judgements about landmark, that is the lekkie answer to every dissenting opinion about landmark.
I attended an introduction once with the same intentions you have, I learned the hard way, that for my friend to attempt to recruit me into a cult, she was already too far gone for me to reason with her or try to rescue her with facts, awareness, or documention to back up what I was saying. Your friend will not be the slightest bit moved by your attendance, nor will he be the slightest bit impressed with how you questioned or contradicted the introduction leader. He has already been programmed to disregard critical thinking and those who are not sold on landmark's 'technology'.
You are up against a monster, be prepared for a battle to equal in size. When I tried to prove to my friend what landmark really is, she wrote me off without batting an eye and blamed me for being the cause of the 'breakdown'. We actually had a great friendship prior to my attending an introduction and going nuts afterward trying to wake her up to the truth. I wish you well and be careful, landmark is out for recruits, free laborers, and as much money as they can bring in.
Ethics, conscience, fairness, sound logic, empathy, honor, accountability and honesty DO NOT exist in the social and psychological climate created by landmark.

ON2 LF know's what he is talking about.

Ask yourself this question. If doing the Landmark forum was such a great thing, if it truly did deliver the results it promises then why does it need to be sold this way? When was the last time you purchased something you ended up feeling so great about that required this level of intensive selling? The greatest products and services pretty much sell themselves, by reputation, or a well developed and trusted brand being nurtured over many years.

Landmark will counteract this by saying "Its radical, its so different it needs a different approach because people are wired up to be mis-trustful of anything new or radical".

Bullshit.

I put to you the following products & services

Laker Airlines
The Dyson vaccum cleaner
Internet Banking
Internet Dating

All of them completely different and radical to the "traditional" way. All of them sold by completely normal accepted ways of marketing.

Go figure.......

Did he invite you to an intro at his house? a 'home introduction'?
S**t. When they give their own houses for the introductions, it's a bad sign.
My advise is: DO NOT go there. Cancel it. Home introductions are designed to recruit those who won't even come to their centers. They're much pushier because of the more intimate and trusted setting [luckily that could also turn around against them, giving people more confidence to stand up for themselves]. Plus, there's a chance your friend has been talking with the leaders about you, and how much he told them, that depends on how much he knows about you. If there is anything he knows about you, the slightest weakness that could be used against you, he might have told them about it and if so it could be used against you. Introduction leaders are trained to pretend not to know anything about the guests, all the while knowing exactly what buttons to push. "Tell me all you want to tell me about your friend. I will never tell him I know. He will never know nor guess I know anything. We are trained to respect confidentiality and treat every guest as a total stranger." [actual words of an introduction leader, from a private conversation].
DO NOT GO THERE. Not only for yourself, but for your friend. If you really want to help your friend to get out of landmark, you have to stay away from landmark and anything landmarkian. Your going will be seen as a success, a support, an approval to the doctrine. There closer you get to landmark, the more your friend will see it as something good. There is no fight against landmark. You have to keep your friend's mind away from landmark. Remind him of the good things of his pre-cult life and support those things.

Be very careful with Landmark, and what ever you do, do not attend the Landmark Forum inorder to findout about Landmark and get your friend out. When I was in Landmark they used to brag about people such as yourself coming to see what it was about in order to get their friend or loved one out and instead ended up joining them.

This is powerful stuff Landmark is dealing out. I used to think I couldn't be had by a cult and Landmark managed snag me for nine months. They are capable of getting to anyone if the situation is right.

I have been unsuccessful in convincing people in Landmark to leave the organization.

Sh*t...I almost went, my fiancee was so manipulative and conniving. I was going to go to shut her up.

What the above members posted, PLEASE FOLLOW.

RUN, don't walk away from this situation. Run flat-out like the heat is on you, as far away as you can.

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maurice
Did he invite you to an intro at his house? a 'home introduction'?
S**t. When they give their own houses for the introductions, it's a bad sign.
My advise is: DO NOT go there. Cancel it. Home introductions are designed to recruit those who won't even come to their centers. They're much pushier because of the more intimate and trusted setting [luckily that could also turn around against them, giving people more confidence to stand up for themselves]. Plus, there's a chance your friend has been talking with the leaders about you, and how much he told them, that depends on how much he knows about you. If there is anything he knows about you, the slightest weakness that could be used against you, he might have told them about it and if so it could be used against you. Introduction leaders are trained to pretend not to know anything about the guests, all the while knowing exactly what buttons to push. "Tell me all you want to tell me about your friend. I will never tell him I know. He will never know nor guess I know anything. We are trained to respect confidentiality and treat every guest as a total stranger." [actual words of an introduction leader, from a private conversation].
DO NOT GO THERE. Not only for yourself, but for your friend. If you really want to help your friend to get out of landmark, you have to stay away from landmark and anything landmarkian. Your going will be seen as a success, a support, an approval to the doctrine. There closer you get to landmark, the more your friend will see it as something good. There is no fight against landmark. You have to keep your friend's mind away from landmark. Remind him of the good things of his pre-cult life and support those things.

Oh no, don't bring up the Home Introduction thing. My ex did that at least every other week. I never went to one but I try not to think of the scene in someone's home trying to seduce the unwary into this stuff.

Scary, Scary, Scary..........

I need a very stiff drink.

They used to ask me if I wanted to do a Home Introduction and I always told them no. They were persistent with it and it aggravated me. I think they even asked me once if they could do an intro at my work place.

Thanks for all the input!

Wow -- You guys are really making me think twice about getting myself in a room with these yahoos...

I know that there is no way Id ever attend the forum... I see the scam clear as day. But putting myself in a room where his captors can tear into me may do more harm than good.

Maybe I should just call him up and say Ive lost interest...

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Maybe I should just call him up and say Ive lost interest...

do it before you change your mind. You're not gonna get him out of landmark's jaws by going into the belly of the beast. In fact, charging hell with a pail of water would accomplish more than going to an introduction. Your friend will always accuse you of not even going to check out an introduction and you don't know what you're talking about, but ignore it. Maybe you should turn things around on your friend and bullshit him into thinking that you've had the most wonderful, extraordinary, and transforming experience with crystal meth and would like to share your experience with him. If he says no way and warns you about the dangers of the drug, you can say ditto to landmark. If that logic doesn't 'catch', nothing will.
Also, be prepared for the emotional blackmail he will resort to, in very direct or very subtle ways.