You misrepresented my name, but I see it's a G for Gary. MAKE FUN OF APCO AND DIE!
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Changedagain, you've been on this forum for a minute. Has the other Bobbi Morris' TLW ever come up? It seems like quite a coincidence, considering Stevens had TLWF locations all over California to include the bay area.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

PS. Welcome, KByrne. I can definitely relate to your post. It absolutely feels like shedding layers of crap, well put! Reminds me of washing off crap after "volunteering" in a chicken coop around Shiloh. Later it was an emu coop! I heard it put really well the other day, "the hardest day of freedom is better than the best day inside a cult."
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Also interesting on Wikipedia page: There was another "Living Word Fellowship" in California with shared counterculture beliefs like speaking in tongues and free worship, as well as communal living. Dr. Steven M. Tipton interviewed ex members of the church, led by a certain Bobbi Morris in SF, California. He wrote a book where he compared it to two other counterculture movements, one
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Some may find this interesting. In scouring the internet for TLWF source material, I came across the Wikipedia "talk" section of the TLWF page. I didn't realize that most Wikipedia pages have viewable tabs at the top. Wikipedia is largely an open-forum, and in the "talk" section tab, users can argue about what should be included in the article and "edits" others
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

I will consider that and exercise more caution in future messages. I sincerely was not attempting to distort your statement. I was merely offering caution in general based on where this forum and Fact Net have gone in the past. I should have done a better job of clarifying that. I have no desire to tone police beyond advocating reserve in general where other victims are concerned. I appreciate y
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

GS, wait that's me. Oops! Cats out of the bag now, I'm Gary. Changedagain, that talk we had over beer -- wasn't joking.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

I agree with that. I'm trying to heed NickleandDimed's advice: people should feel free to post about any injustices they faced. It can be a delicate needle to thread between not digressing into a by-name rumor mill and feeling free to share personal testimony without being called a liar. Both arguments have a lot of merit, good point.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

SouthGate, we have people on here stating that this sort of thing was being actively covered up--with more than a few of them relaying personal accounts. To that end, you seem a little incredulous. I'm curious as to if that's your intent or if I'm misreading you.
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Puddington, Exactly. If any current member is reading this and doubting whether John, Marilyn or Gary are culpable in perpetuating a culture of abuse, ask yourself this simple question: "Here we have at least three people on this page alone who have spoken about sexual assault in the church. Why has there never been a formal investigation into any of these pastors, why were the police
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

NickelandDimed, I hope I can navigate what I see as a misunderstanding here without taking away from what you just said because it's a very good point and really struck a chord with me. I completely recognize that people usurped their roles as shepherds or ministries to do things behind closed doors that nobody-including G&M-had direct knowledge of. That is just sickening, and peopl
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

NickelandDimed, I am not sure how I'd go about controlling the narrative without admin rights, but for what it's worth, you're free to talk about whatever or whomever you wish and I won't try to stop you or cut you down. I value your opinion and the long amount of time you've been on this forum offering reconciliation. I can only speak for my own posts. I do make an ho
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Re: NickelandDimed, I'm sorry to hear that, I was slandered as well and when it involves trusted individuals like a shepherd or JRS, they're some of the wounds that take the longest to heal. Shepherds had no attorney/client privilege, and I knew some of the higher ups that were encouraged to keep records via word documents and emails. If you were connected to the main shepherds (ch
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Ignore me? That seems harsh. I like to think we're all on the same side here. I meant no disrespect, @lily Rose, and I apologize if I was condescending. I didn't mean to accuse you of trying to out the boy and his mother I simply felt it was prudent to express the argument for their privacy as a general disclaimer based on where the conversation seemed to be going. I like Puddington
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

@changedagain,exactly. This doesn't absolve Marilyn of any wrongs she committed against people under her later in life, and there are many. JRS just doesn't deserve any excuses here, like "Oh this beautiful woman came onto me and I couldn't resist her so I cheated on my wife." If JRS were a manager under me sleeping with his secretary I'd fire him in a goddamn
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

That's true but it is also important to be considerate to the woman and her son. If it were me, I wouldn't want it blasted out in public that my father is actually my church pastor. It would be very beneficial to a lot of people if he did come forward, but demanding he does almost doesn't seem right. This church has a sad history of demonizing women as it is. She would certainly
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Changedagain, it could be a way to move money around between trusts. I remember hearing complaints about when people wrote 'APCO Trust' in a check memo the money wouldn't go where leadership wanted it at the time. From what I can gather, it's illegal to sell a property to yourself at a markup so again it's perplexing to say the least. All in all, I counted about a dozen
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Puddington, that video was inspiring, thank you for sharing. I identified with many of the same experiences she had, and her final statement really resonated with me: "Even the hardest day of freedom is better than the best day in a cult." GoingRogue, I had the same thought watching those documentaries. It's an uncomfortable truth to realize that many if not most of those same
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

It's quite comforting to relate to all of these posts and private messages that serve to remind me that leaving TLWF had nothing to do with forsaking a word over my life or giving into the battle or baggage I brought with me. Those reasons are always so personal, and I agree with others who stated that this is characteristic of many other cults, and the things that made TLWF unique are actua
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Larry, I appreciate the support and the caution. It has taken me at least that long and I surely have further to go as well. If not for my patient wife I would not have navigated the de-programing you spoke of nearly as well. A lot of it does come down to trust--both trusting others and trusting yourself again. It's almost as if submitting to 'a word over your life,' and the person
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

NickleandDimed, I struggled with that part and I can relate to where you are coming from. I absolutely agree people should feel free to voice where they've been wronged both for their own benefit and the benefit of others. This was merely an attempt to reign in focus for the post. My goal with the research would be a more comprehensive outlook on the institutional problems of TLW. While ab
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Larry, I largely agree, although I think there's a middle ground. I believe I tried reading Woodrow Nichols' book at one point in the 90s. It was easy to write off as you said, I believe the individual who showed it to me simply explained that Nichols did not "have a revelation of who John was," and therefore could not possibly understand what he was seeing. Nichols was very
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Thank you, Paddington. If there's any way to upload that, I would enjoy going through those again. They did get a little bit nasty at times and I'm grateful you and others have kept things more level-headed here. Recently, I found the full text of Woodrow Nichols' book. I'm about halfway through it, I had no idea the silver mine was investigated by a Californian newspaper
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

Salutations, long-time-listener-first-time-poster here. Had used Factnet back in the early 00's when I 'blew out' but it appears to be shut down now. I shed some tears and let out some laughs reading many of these posts and would like to thank you all for your heartfelt empathy toward all who are left questioning after leaving "the source." TLW is all that many people hav
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families