' even hitting the 'free speaker' in the head with a hard-bound copy of War and Peace.' What a lovely image, could almost work as one of those embedded commands that Anticult has been pointing out. :-)
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I did have a live one-to-one teacher for several years who I found to be of great benefit to me. Had there been at the time a pool of professional psychologists specialising in PTSD or combat-stress I believe I would have been at least as well served by such a professional. I took what was available over 30 years ago. The teacher I went to had a reputation, being an ex-military man, at being
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I should imagine that while the money keeps rolling in BK will enjoy her Ojai mansion and the goodlife. Unfortunately the economic downturn has an effect even on these fraudulent gurus, money is tight for everyone and that will have an impact on cash-flow. I have noticed an increased sales pressure from even the most successful of these salesmen with intesified email campaigns etc in the past
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

sparrow, I watched some of the very creepy videos you supplied, and can see how compelling a presentation was made by Jeffries and Mystery? to the 'students' I can see why these students buy in to the promises made by these types who take absolutely no account of the wishes or rights of the 'target'. Quite worrying. I then watched this clip which I think is Jeffries wit
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'For people who profess to believe in No-Self, there sure are a large horde of aggressive, and dishonest salespeople with Ego's the size of Texas, who have enormous Ego-strength. But remember, the passive No-Self is for the pawn, not for the Queen.' Very well put, Anticult, The same old double-standard power game in shiny new 'spiritual' clothes. Helpme2tim
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

' However, I encourage you to avoid the faulty logic which says that a spiritual concept must be false simply because a guru has abused the concept. Just because a concept like enlightenment has been used in underhanded ways to harm people, that does not mean the concept is invalid. For example, people have used the concept of biological evolution to justify eugenics and other horrible thing
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I would suggest you read around the subject of how peoples beliefs and values and behaviour can be changed by these types of technique (which after all is surely one of the underlying presuppositions of the RR forums) ' I don't see why sparrow has to provide his exact credentials in an anonymous forum. Nobody else is providing theirs. He has provided some good reference material
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Just a reminder regarding con-men/women and confidence tricks: The confidence in question is not necessarily the confidence required of the con-man/woman to pull off the trick. The confidence actually refers to the amount of confidence the 'mark' has to place in the conman for the trick to have any chance at all of being pulled successfully. Confidence in these cases means trust
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

dp198, 'The question, "what is the Mind" is probably one of the most important and complex areas in science and human knowledge, never mind philosophy. But science is starting to work at this question.' The question: "What is MY mind and why is it so easily suckered by Byron Katies marketing machine ?" might be a more useful place to start your questioning.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'However now they write books, run seminars and share these techniques with others who would probably never have thought of them in the first place! Thats kind of worrying' Hi Sparrow, (Incidentally I noted a 'Freudian slip', if you believe in the freudian concept the 'unconscious', in your addressing deren84 as derren84 ;-) ) I read a few of the first NLP
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

A word of explanation, in case its needed. I attached the motivational poster jpg because it is funny, not to promote or trash any religious ideology or to suggest any path as the answer to all life's problems. Each person's beliefs are, in the final analysis, a matter for themselves alone. I do have a problem when one person's personal beliefs are foistered on others by dev
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Its really damaging, for people to think they can eliminate all of their painful emotions in life. Its setting people up for delusion, and disaster, and ironically depression.' The above should be in capital letters over the door of every LGAT. I had a look at the TM website linked above and found this little gem from an ex-TM casualty: 'As a matter of fact, keeping y
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'In other words, it should be theoretically possible to distinguish between a spiritual huckster and the real deal (assuming there is such a thing). Clearly, the ability to validate or invalidate claims of enlightenment would strike a serious blow against spiritual snake oil salesmen.' For the above sentence to make any sense at all we would need to agree on a clear definition of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'This stuff is very tricky, that is for sure.' Certainly is, and the first priority must be self-protection from these ruthless types, however you decide to protect yourself. Something to bear in mind though, was something mentioned in Meadow's post on the Caplan book and 'The Guru Papers': 'Quote: “The dangers of mystical experience and of ego’s tendency
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Well...I strongly/completely disagree that I am wrong that 'knowledge' of the techniques will protect people! ;-)' Anticult, Apologies for the very broad and ultimately misleading generalisation I made.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I had a look at Stever Robbins blog, referenced by Anticult in the link above and found this, the last comment, to be revealing and pertinent: 'jcg // Dec 22, 2008 at 6:57 pm i’ve been in these types of “negotiations” and they typically degenerate into emotional manipulation. i can tell i’m in one when a cold logical exposition is dismissed as irrelevant. at that point, my willingne
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'I knew enough not to act on those feelings, and felt quite disgusted at being manipulated, but I still had the positive feelings she wished to evoke. It felt like an automatic response.' I think it is an automatic response, neurologically hardwired at a very early stage of life. I wrote a long post in reply to this but it disappeared/was timed out or something. Probably merciful
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'The real message is the metalevel covert persuasion tactics being used to screw with people's heads, generally to extract money. So its best to focus on that, and keep the content seperate. For Byron Katie, the content, is simply a distraction, and a tool to confuse people.' Too true. If you get bogged down in the non-dual system of thought it truly can be a bottomless
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

quackdave, 'I wouldn't take our "quickness on the draw" to heart; it's not personal.' Thankyou. I too am hypervigilant and though my reactionary tendencies and anger have largely dissipated (due probably to age and living as much as anything) I can well remember the "quickness on the draw" and don't take it personally very often. helpme2times
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Quote: Katie: True freedom is freedom from the mind. You take the pills, you’re free from the mind. When the body no longer functions, the mind cannot identify as a this. Everyone gets free. Sooner or later. So let’s free ourselves of the mind.' My reading of this finds the above quote particularly pernicious. In the system of non-dual thought there are many exercises that require
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Sorry but statements such as I've noted above are suspicious to me. Just calling it as I see it.' Helpme2times, As one suspicious person to another, I can only applaud your calling it as you see it. As Anticult has noted, BK is using a perversion of the non-dual ideology (or worldview) to further her own power hungry ends. I read the thread in its entirety before I
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'The "mind" is not the problem, the mind is the solution.' A great post, Anticult. It would be more accurate, IMO, to say that the mind is both the problem and the solution. This might sound a bit BKish but you have covered it here: "The answer is for humans to try to learn how to use their mind, and thinking skills, and intelligence, and emotional intelligence,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

It is all about power with BK, isn’t it? Meadow, I thought your post was remarkable. BK hasn't changed at all really, just changed her tactics. I'm not a great fan of 'enlightenment' but it is made clear in buddhism and most traditional systems that day to day living is the real challenge and the only place where real change can happen. I particularly liked this qu
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'The author says his episode was triggered by reading an early Ken Wilber book' The author seems to be yet another Steve :-) I like UG Krishnamurti's comment on what he called his 'calamity' "If you knew what this was you would not want it" He didn't think much of Byron Katie either.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'I, too, have left seminars with a bag of junk and a lighter wallet.' I've thought about quite a bit about how these hypnotic techniques work, the modern stuff is nothing like as crude as one man putting the woo on another. My own conclusions are that we are predisposed, through upbringing and socialisation to obey somone who 'sounds' authoritive. He might be makin
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'One has to wonder who is learning what from who.' I think they are all learning from each other how to sell hot air, or ice to Eskimo's, or water by the river--because there is no product to sell in coaching except a future promise--with no guarantee or predictable result---of something that is not quantifiable, not measurable. Success, a better life, better relationships,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"In fact I have the ultimate coach, Steve Hardison. (www.theultimatecoach.net). I've had him off and on for years and we are currently in the middle of a four year contract. He has changed my life.." I very much doubt that Hardison is doing any coaching of Chandler. This is a sort of two-way shill operation with each one boosting the credibility of the other. Also the punters
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Carlos B, 'Many come away drowning in shame and believing they simply weren't up to the task dropped onto them by the cult leader.' Further to my previous response to your comment, I have had immense struggles with feelings of shame. It has been helpful to me to distinguish between guilt, which is my conscience (or better self) telling me that I have behaved badly or shame w
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'I will think if it's funny if anticult siezes upon this to go, "yeah, see, I told you kassy lacks empathy". That seems to be the way with some round these parts is siezing on anything they can use against you rather then having an intelligent discussion, it's interesting. ' Kassy, I have prefaced my comments here several times with the statement that nothing th
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Carlos B, 'This kind of stuff is particularly pernicious because the initiate is made to feel responsible for the development of a higher cause which leads to massive guilt should someone begin break free from the cult. Many come away drowning in shame and believing they simply weren't up to the task dropped onto them by the cult leader.' Good point you make. Carrying th
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"