The strategic mindset is bleakness, spiced with . I am quite desperate now to know what it is spiced with. :-)
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

P Baba seems to agree with the FBI and other law enforcement agencies worldwide that these guys are quite heavily into violence. Lots of web references in Australia for bombings and in India for murders, arms drops and other nasties. terrorism or spirituality?
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Freud said something about converting "neurotic misery into ordinary unhappiness."' Yes, but 'neurotic' is quite a mild description for the misery I was suffering. Freud, as a man of his time, tended to class neurotic suffering with hysteria and other ailments of women which he concluded were largely imaginary and a result of the weaker female constitution.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Don't know Ananda Marga but there is a very interesting, non-sensational documentary on an aghori sadhu on you-tube in six parts. Aghoris are the most extreme sect of sadhu and use very transgressive practices to cut through the normal human conditioning. Not for the squeamish, faint-hearted or I would guess anyone expecting to ever rejoin mainstream society. Part 1: aghoris
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

With all the convoluted and ever changing BK stories of walk-in's and walk-out's, divine cockroaches etc, it struck me that there is a very close parallel here to another very ambitious 'material girl.' Just like Madonna, BK has constantly re-invented herself, presenting each time a new persona to fit in with changing trends in the market-place, hooking up with the latest h
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Dr Bolte Taylor is a neuroscientist who, despite the pleasurable associations she may have experienced with her stroke, would have been well aware of the fact that she had suffered a devastating brain event. Apparently it took her eight years to recover from this event and she would have needed enormous medical and personal care to support her during her recovery. Dr Bolte Taylor says that
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"I just want the pain to stop." I can sympathise with the above statement as that was the sole motivating factor for me also. I had a virulent loathing of all things religious and to this day cannot define what is meant by 'spiritual' I would have willingly sold my soul and anything else I had in order for the pain to stop. It took me a long time to realise that the pa
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Very interesting points raised re archetypes and Christine Lore Webers two books. I woulod suggest that since Weber had a copywright dispute with Bk over the 'Cry in the Desert' she was also probably subject to a gag order, usual practice in such cases. Most writers manage to get around the enforced secrecy of a gag order by writing an allegorical novel on similar themes as Weber seems
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"was it Mary Poppins crossed with a Zen master?" As an aside, it should be noted that the author of the Mary Poppins books, PL Travers, had a lifelong fascination with mysticism, myth and magic. She was an early student of Gurdjieff and the plot lines of the books have a zen-like paradoxical quality. The Disney film portrays Mary Poppins as a jolly, kind person whereas the books sho
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

A link to Mitchells apologia on youtube, mentioned by rob: mitchells tao If you want a humourous version of the Tao rendered into American English try this one, its free: ron hogans Tao
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'I've attempted to be fair, balanced and honest in sharing my experience. I may not have come off that way. Please note that the technique is not ALL rotten and that Lester's original message of loving others and yourself is a good one. It is apparently working for some people. And some of the events I experienced were unforgettable as I listed above. I have also gained a great mea
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'It is very difficult to figure out who is the object, grammatically speaking, of all the strange, disorienting, rapidly shifting verbs utilized in those tangled sentences. ' Intentional, in my opinion. When the object is thus rendered so vague, the confused listener applies the content to himself as there is no other indication of who the content applies to. 'But maybe in BK
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'They may become dependent on the 'tech' because they lose patience, lose ability to negotiate openly with people, lose ability to tolerate the frustration of having someone say 'No' to them.' 'Long term, these mind technicians may become less able to enjoy peer to peer adult communication, because their normal communication skills atrophy over the years.�
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

My point above, about not getting too involved with the possible motivations of the abusers, is cross-referencing from the Pick-Up Artists thread. I posted a link to Dorpat's 'Gaslighting' book there and am posting another to a more modern take on the subject. I haven't read this book yet but found one Amazon comment to be worth reposting here: gaslighting no 2 '
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Obviously, I'd prefer it if Stever wanted to make an honest living, and many people with his background do. (Really. They're just not the ones doing the perp walk on CNN.) So that was one of my points, even though it's none of my business.' Individuals are incredibly complex in their personal motivations. I spent years trying to fathom and make sense of the motivatio
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

P.S. The Amazon comments on the Dorpat book are particularly interesting.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'What is shocking, is why is the public so unaware of even the basics of any of this?' Another reason that so many people do not seem to be aware of this is that watered down versions of these techniques are so commonplace in normal life. If you look closely at the dynamics of any interaction of power imbalance, i.e. between boss and employee, saleman and customer, parent and chi
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'his degrees from 2 of the best universities in the world' I think its a mistake to equate 'highly educated' with 'highly ethical.' The latter is not an automatic follow-on from the former. The highly educated business person/salesman is going to be infinitely more devious due to his greater education unless he has an equally highly developed ethical code. Sales
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Its also decades old, and has been in books for decades. What is shocking, is why is the public so unaware of even the basics of any of this? If someone could explain that, that would be appreciated.' Not claiming to have the definitive answer, but my take on this having questioned it myself, is that we are all socialised, of necessity, in childhood to obey someone who sounds an
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'I sensed this was an addictive process (years before anyone understood process addictions),' Process addiction is a new term for me but very apt. I have always thought of it in terms of a habitual neural pathway, used as the easiest known route to a particular goal. Forming new and better neural pathways is a long slow process requiring a very high tolerance of cognitive dissonance
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Janaki's conversion to Byron Katie, hypnosis' Something that struck me, reading about Stephen Mitchell and his being dazzled by BK's sparkly eyes on the first meeting--where have we heard that before?--- and later something I read on BK's blog when she was talking about her cancer. "Anyway, my husband and my sons cannot be upset, my daughter cannot be upset,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'THis is the only clip I've watched so far, and it scared me.' Christa, I've only taken a quite amateur interest in hypnosis (apart from meditation/self-hypnosis), I'm sure sparrow and Anticult can break down what happened much better than I but this is what I saw: The fact that the guys looked dorky is a plus as the guard is lowered. Louis spoke first to the women
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

For those with an interest in such things, an academic paper looking at dissociation and trance states from their quite complex social/moral interpretations in different cultural settings and how the perceived meanings change depending on the social approval etc accorded them. Not, note, to suggest that these states are ever really risk-free. A good, functioning and suspicious critical thinkin
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'These release of liablity forms demonstrate the presence of a hypocritical double standard: these LGATs tell YOU to take responsibly for your stuff, they use those release of liablity forms to evade responsiblity for the impact of their techniques.' I would also suggest posting Corboys above statement with every reposting of the disclaimers, as it is a very clear and simple exposit
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

For someone who has stated that I think discussion of this issue is pointless, I seem to keep wittering on about it, so apologies for the wittering. My final point is that as time goes on I can find no reasonable distinction between 'spiritual' and 'psychological' issues. For myself, both words refer to a collection of beliefs and concepts held by the individual and incre
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Given that Newage thinking and jargon is also now so pervasive in the wider culture, it is fairly impractical to simply avoid all references. My bosses have taken to spouting well-worn Newage cliches, (I guess it takes a lot less effort than thinking out a practical and workable management plan) and the more understanding I have of this vacuous Newagespeak and what is prompting it, the better
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'Concerning scientific controlled studies for PTSD, and depression, and other psychological issues:' A LGAT is clearly not the right place to attempt to address the very personal issues involved in any psychological issue or deeply personal conflict. A LGAT such as BK's operation gives covert directions intended to undermine the personal beliefs and sense of identity of the pa
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Just an end note, 'mystic' visions in my experience are definitely the same as dissociation. Both are a result of placing the brain under stress. There really isn't anything much to recommend seeking them. Anticult is right that the seeking can become pathological. The subjective meaning attributed to them has a huge amount to do with the appeal. They are often taken as proof of
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

'And its understood that psychology doesn't know what the Self even is.' Neither does anyone else, Anticult. The honest ones admit it.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Just an observation re disrupters: It seems that recruiting for an organisation serves two puposes, to solidify the commitment of the recruiter and to capture more victims if possible. If someone is sure of their beliefs in their own mind, there seems to be less impetus to gain safety in numbers and gather a crowd. One way of stuffing down doubt is to try to convince another person of the la
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"