'Concerning scientific controlled studies for PTSD, and depression, and other psychological issues:'

A LGAT is clearly not the right place to attempt to address the very personal issues involved in any psychological issue or deeply personal conflict.
A LGAT such as BK's operation gives covert directions intended to undermine the personal beliefs and sense of identity of the participants.
A LGAT does not consider the history or the ongoing challenges of the participants.
A LGAT takes no responsibility for the psychological welfare of the participants.

We all have issues, it comes with the territory of being human. Some of us have more tangled issues than others. When people want help with such issues, an individually tailored, caring and responsible approach yields a better result.

A LGAT is not equipped to deal constructively with anyone's issues.
A LGAT operation's primary purpose is making money and where possible, exerting covert control over the participants.

A competent licensed professional is the right direction to look for help with PTSD, depression and other psychological issues.

And many of the main LGAT's, specifically TARGET people with serious psychological problems, as they are the ones in the most desperate pain, looking for a miracle cure, and will spend the big bucks in that false hope.
Its the same as certain "health" scams that target those with serious health problems, who are desperate, and will spend $30K without blinking, in hope of a bogus "miracle cure".


And a look at the advertising, and also their referral advertising by their associates on blogs, etc, shows that they target people with depression, anxiety, PTSD, suicidality, eating disorders, and every other main psychological problem.
They have all sorts of anecdotes of miracle cures, people throwing away their medications, Eliminating Depression, PTSD being cured, and everything else one can think of.

Then here is the CATCH.

They all simultaneously have their massive disclaimer/releases which they force people to sign before they attend the LGAT seminar. They will not allow people in the door, unless they sign those releases.
And these releases completely contradict, and wipe-out every single one of their advertising claims. They deny everything, and say the LGAT seminar cannot do anything to help anyone, its not group therapy, and that if anything goes wrong with you then they had nothing to do with it. If you have a mental breakdown, tough nuts for you.


So its a type of loophole they can exploit. They make fuzzy extreme advertising claims based on Testimonials and anecdotes, done in fluffy language, that makes people BELIEVE their LGAT is going to cure their problems quickly.
Then at the same time, they have dense documents, that people don't read and are forced to sign, that say the exact opposite.
Which is the truth? Of course, its the waiver/release which is telling the truth, that the LGAT will have ZERO beneficial effects on the person, and can have many extremely NEGATIVE effects, including mental breakdowns and even "death" by suicide, which is why they put in "death clauses".


In years past, they could easily ambush people at the door with these releases, and most people sign them without even reading them, as they are hyped up by the smooth-talking LGAT salespeople.
Fortunately now, versions of various LGAT releases of liability are posted on the internet, so people can look at them before they arrive. Some of the LGAT releases are posted, from PSI seminars, Landmark, and others.

Landmark waiver [forum.culteducation.com] [forum.culteducation.com]

PSI seminars waiver [forum.culteducation.com]

THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE - RELEASE OF LIABILITY [forum.culteducation.com]

Burn Out Prevention Strategy--All Purpose Disruptor Repellant

A a tactical suggestion.

To keep disruptors from clogging this thread with 'culture jamming' and filling it full of disinformation and noise, how about this:

Each time a Disruptor appears, re-post this material that has been provided by The Anticult.

Quote

Fortunately now, versions of various LGAT releases of liability are posted on the internet, so people can look at them before they arrive. Some of the LGAT releases are posted, from PSI seminars, Landmark, and others.

Landmark waiver [forum.culteducation.com] [forum.culteducation.com]

PSI seminars waiver [forum.culteducation.com]

THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE - RELEASE OF LIABILITY [forum.culteducation.com]

That way, the presence of yet another Disruptor will trigger us to post this material.

THat way, each attempt to plug up this thread with noise will trigger release of highest quality consumer education information that new visitors to this thread get the most benefit from.

The kind of information that will help them identify an LGAT before they even step inside.

These release of liablity forms demonstrate the presence of a hypocritical double standard: these LGATs tell YOU to take responsibly for your stuff, they use those release of liablity forms to evade responsiblity for the impact of their techniques.

All we have to do is train ourselves to ignore disruptors, dont even try to reply directly to them.

Just re-post this quoted material again, and again, and again, rubbing the disruptor's nose in it.

It also puts this important information right at the part of the thread where new readers who most need this information, are likely to begin reading.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2009 09:45PM by corboy.

It's a fantastic idea, and should be implemented immediately. Unfortunately, the links don't work even when copied and pasted, much less 'quoted'. One might need to jot down this page number so that links can be reposted in the quoted text.

Excellent idea, and one I will be using shortly, given the climate of this thread, lately.

qd



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2009 01:28AM by quackdave.

Quote
The Anticult
Fortunately now, versions of various LGAT releases of liability are posted on the internet, so people can look at them before they arrive. Some of the LGAT releases are posted, from PSI seminars, Landmark, and others.

Landmark waiver [forum.culteducation.com] [forum.culteducation.com]

PSI seminars waiver [forum.culteducation.com]

THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE - RELEASE OF LIABILITY [forum.culteducation.com]

AHA! Here's how, folks. Go to the bottom of The Anticult's post on page 223 (the one which has the release form links) and choose "Quote this Message". Then, unless you wish to repost the whole thing, you cut out everything after the quote message in brackets until the last paragraph and the links. (or portion thereof, as I've done above) That will insure that the links operate. Cutting or copying and pasting (even in quotation marks) renders links non-working.

Easy as pie, eh?

qd

'These release of liablity forms demonstrate the presence of a hypocritical double standard: these LGATs tell YOU to take responsibly for your stuff, they use those release of liablity forms to evade responsiblity for the impact of their techniques.'

I would also suggest posting Corboys above statement with every reposting of the disclaimers, as it is a very clear and simple exposition of the major underlying manipulative fraud.
(the cash fraud being the obvious fraud)

Even after getting a friendly and promotional LA Times article, that literally did not ask ANY tough questions at all...even that is not enough for Stephen Mitchell. He had to write a comment to the editor.

Look at the language used in the title, which one assumes was written by Stephen Mitchell?
THE STORY STRAIGHT FROM THE SOURCE.
Look at those loaded code-words and how they are used. Story...Source...straight...


And the tricky language used regarding "therapy".
Stephen Mitchell says that "Western therapy" does not address the root of suffering?
The extreme arrogance in that statement is breathtaking.
First off, which type of "western" therapy? There are dozens of types. Which type?

Where did Stephen Mitchell get his expertise in "western therapy"? Where did he study it? Where is the proof for his wild and overgeneralized claims, about "western therapy"?
His arrogance in that overgeneralization, without any proof, does betray a complete ignorance of current psychological treatments, many of which are PROVEN in hundreds of scientific studies to work for a lot of people.


And there is an "eastern" therapy?
What is he talking about? Its simply nonsensical.
Is he referring to his "eastern Zen" stuff as therapy?

Then there is the climax.
The Work of Byron Katie, he says, goes to the "root" of human suffering?
What does that even mean? Its intentionally meaningless.

And again, the burden of proof is on those making the claims. Where is the evidence?
Where are the peer reviewed studies to back up the claims?
There is nothing, of course. Just advertising Testimonials, like TV infomercial selling.

And the disclaimers above, say that The Work is NOT any type of psychological process or therapy.
[forum.culteducation.com]
QUOTE:(The School for The Work with Byron Katie) "It is not therapeutic in design, intent or methodology and is not a substitute for medical treatment, psychotherapy, or any health program, regardless of what you may have heard from anyone. We specifically advise you that Byron Katie is not a healthcare professional..."


So anyone can see the marketing game they try to play.
In advertising and carefully worded comments, they imply or say that The Work is better than "Western therapy".
But in their disclaimers, they say it is NOT any type of therapy.

Notice the phrase..."regardless of what you may have heard from anyone".
That stands out like a sore thumb.
Who are these people running around saying that The Work goes to the "root" of human suffering, and is better than "western therapy"?

Notice the tricky way everything is phrased, its right on the line.

The reality is the The Work does NOT go to the "root" of human suffering. That is reality. How do we know this?
Because there is NO PROOF that it does.
And also, their own disclaimers say it is NOT therapeutic in any way.

The LGAT seminars just push some people into gross-decompensation and into terrible suffering. That is not hard to do to people with past-trauma, you just use the LGAT techniques everyone has been using for decades to "break people down".
Anyone can push Humpty Dumpty off of a wall, but who is going to put the pieces back together?

Properly trained, accredited therapists, would never push people into these extreme states, as people can have a breakdown. They use their training to manage things much more carefully, and strategically.


But the LGAT salespeople and promoters know that in the good old USA, they can use exaggerated and tricky advertising language, while saying the OPPOSITE in the fine-print, and pretty much get away with it.




________QUOTE____________________________
[www.latimes.com]
The story straight from the source

I appreciate the profile Susan Salter Reynolds wrote of me ("A Stillness Within Stephen Mitchell," April 12) and the kindness, sincerity and interest she brought to it. But there are a few points that I would like to clarify.
[...]

She also wrote that I felt I had a right to the material I work with. I don't feel that I have a right to anything. I am just grateful that the material is there.

Reynolds wrote that I think "Western therapy doesn't work." I don't think that. What I think is that Western therapy doesn't go to the root of human suffering, as "The Work of Byron Katie" does.

Stephen Mitchell

Ojai
_________________________________

Stever Robbins highly recommends Michael Neill who wrote a book, FEEL HAPPY NOW! and who is another NLP supersalesman and seminar guru, who is linked with Steve Hardison.
____________________________
[forum.culteducation.com]
blog.steverrobbins.com]
May 26, 2009 at 2:01 pm
"I just got off the phone with my ex-coach and good friend Michael Neill. He’s just published his fourth book and is ramping up to doing a full-scale workshop business next year.
He mentioned that he’s now seeing coach Steve Hardison (http://www.theultimatecoach.net). Hardison charges $150,000 per engagement, paid in advance...."
_____________________________

There are all sorts of NLP techniques used in the book FEEL HAPPY NOW! much of it copied right from Richard Bandler from the NLP field. There would have to be some kind of deal, where Richard Bandler gets paid for using his material?
And there are many examples copied right from Tony Robbins, another NLPer from years gone by. In the same area he mentions Paul McKenna who is a hypnotist.
All of those people communicate on a couple levels at once, and the least interesting is the "conscious" level.

The books "content" is generally the basic NLP techniques, but the book is just LACED top to bottom, with the concealed-content, the meta-level persuasion and influence techniques.
Here is one small example.

Feel Happy Now! - Genius Catalyst [www.geniuscatalyst.com]
QUOTE: "...I have written this book using specific (and sometimes unusual) language patterns that will actually trigger chemical changes on the inside of your brain. You may begin to experience good feelings in your body and a greater sense of what's possible in your mind just by reading these words."

Now that is very OBVIOUS use of the NLP-hypnotherapy persuasion language. You can spot the embedded commands, and Suggestions, and the use of Metaphors, and the present-tense induction commands from hypnotherapy.
Perhaps someone else can analyze the phrase above, and break down the techniques being used?

The book is full of that stuff top to bottom, talking about "going up stairs" and "finding the key" and other metaphorical language patterns, done in an obvious way to the trained eye, but invisible to the new age reader they have targeted. This is above the normal "content" of the book, its the meta-techniques being used on the readers, who are the "spiritual" customer, who the publisher Hay House sells to, who have ZERO knowledge of these methods. (same publisher as Byron Katie).

So of course, Stever Robbins is going to love it, its right up his alley. Its the exact same method and process being explained here.

So the NLP/hypnotherapy and persuasion are all interlinked in this book.
But he is also connected to the New Wage guru's, where all the serious money is these days, and puts forward that oversimplified happy-happy smiling "spiritual" salespitch.

- he promotes Byron Katie and uses the same concept about "Stories" on page 37 and 51.
- he says he is also hooked in with the snake-oilman Larry Crane from the Sedona Method.
Larry Crane Sedona Method and Release Technique, Rip-Off Report [forum.culteducation.com]

And he also thanks Steve Chandler. Steve Chandler - 100 Ways to Motivate Yourself [forum.culteducation.com]

So everyone can see the interconnected cross-marketing with all of these people. Its almost bizarre the extent which they are all connected with eachother.

As well, he mentions Robert Dilts and Richard Bandler and John LaValle, who are the senior NLP people. So RIGHT HERE is the PROOF of the cross-fertilization of the advanced NLP-persuasion-hypnotherapy with the new-age spiritual coaching-guru faux-enlightenment systems. This is it.
That seems to be the new New Wage method. Combine and conceal the powerful persuasion and advanced influence techniques from NLP-hypnotherapy, inside a new age "spiritual" system or philosophy. That is where the big bucks are these days.
And that is exactly where it all interconnects.

And he even put some WARNINGS in his book on page 105, about how the techniques should NOT be used for trauma or therapy. Why did he put this disclaimer, for who's protection?

Stever Robbins gave this very deceptive and manipulative little book a 5 Star review.
Why no mention of the concealed persuasion methods contained in the book, some that come right from the book Persuasion Engineering by Richard Bandler and John LaValle?

Persuasion Engineering: Richard Bandler, John LA Valle [www.amazon.com]

This book FEEL HAPPY NOW! at best, gets 0-Stars, due to its deceptive nature, and just being a hodge-podge of stuff taken from other people, presented in an airy-fairy style, by a wide-smiling anti-Guru in an understated manner.
Meanwhile, using the most advanced techniques of advanced persuasion on a meta-level, while not mentioning anything about it in the book. That is simply conscious misdirection and conscious deception.
Not a good idea to blindly trust people with mile-wide smiling faces, who are concealing what they are really doing to you behind that huge grin. Guess who is the target market?

Of course, its real purpose is to get new agey people to the website, and get them into the "podcasts" and then groomed into "coaching" and expensive seminars. That is where the real money is.
Unless a book sells millions, it doesn't make much money, its really just advertising for the over-priced coaching and seminars, which lure people deeper into the method of whoever is doing the selling.

But again, this actually proves the actual people involved in the cross-fertilization of the advanced NLP-hypnotherapy persuasion techniques, and how they have moved into the New Wage "spiritual" scene, and are concealed within those systems.
Its all there in black and white.

The more sophisticated New Agey guru's have been picking this stuff up for years, and then concealing inside their "spiritual content", as meta-level persuasion and influence techniques.

Its simply a fact of reality, that is what has been done. But the new agey audience has not picked up on it, as they don't know ANYTHING about the persuasion techniques, they have not even heard they exist.

And the advanced NLPers and unconscious persuasion artists...frankly Scarlet, they don't give a damn.
They are too busy getting their beaks wet, and taking a piece of the action themselves.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2009 12:03PM by The Anticult.

There is almost unbelievably shilling for Michael Neill's books by Stever Robbins.
Stever has the #1 Amazon review for his previous book called You Can Have What You Want. [www.amazon.com]

The "review" of the book by Stever Robbins is also highly self-promotional, with yet another version of his own Story, with no mention of the advanced covert NLP-persuasion techniques part, of course.
(That doesn't even exist...remember? Don't look at the man behind the curtain...as the Wiz said in the wizard of Oz)

The Michael Neill "reviews" by Stever Robbins are just biased cross-marketing, and self-promotion.
[www.amazon.com]

Of course, there is no mention that he is also promoting Michael Neill on his blog, and their "coaching" relationship, or anything else?

There used to be hundreds of NLP-style super-salespeople running amok in previous years. Trying to get people into "free" seminars, then use their persuasion tactics to upsell them into other seminars that cost THOUSANDS for a few days, and then into private coaching, selling anything they could sell.
Many people were bilked out of countless 10's of thousands of dollars.

But then NLP got a bad reputation, and the business dried up.
So they are moving into the New Age arena, and trying to pretend they are not doing anything at all, trying to pretend there are no meta-level tactics people are being bombarded with.
They try to pretend its all about some type of Enlightenment.
For them, the new age crowd is like taking candy from a baby. The new age crowd just believe the Stories they are telling them, and don't ask any real questions. They don't analyze the language patterns being used. They have never even HEARD of the meta-level techniques being used.

For the advanced persuasion artists, its a cakewalk.

And, one way someone could slip this stuff in, would be to present as a nonduality teacher (totally unregulated field, unlike psychotherapy where you need a license).

People in certain parts of the country are eager to get into the same room with someone giving 'satsangs'.

A teacher could be the real deal, or could be someone who learned to speak guru-twaddle but who also has learned the techniques itemized for us by Anticult.

The subjects in that room could have all sorts of emotions that theyd be taught to think of as expanded consciousness, but would actually be mere trance.

And, the hell of it is no one ever thinks to ask if someone giving darshan could have learned methods from very non spiritual sources.

At least if you go to purchase a new laptop, or car, you think to research the capabilities.

But this prudence is socialized right out of us when a guru comes to town.

Despite no one needing a license to be a guru. Its a totally unregulated occupation.

Total power, zero accountablity.

But the tip off is whether someone has you sign away your right, as a citizen, to sue for damages, before attending one of their events.

If that happens, RUN.

Whoever pushes those release of liability forms is not someone Loving What Is.

They fear what could happen.