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15 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Does anyone know the whereabouts of John Schmidt the pastor who was cheated out of his church by Rob Scribner? What about Pastor Schmidts background? I take it he was a Foursquare pastor in good standing. It would be interested to locate him and ask him how much support Foursquare gave him in this matter. Certainly his imediate superior ie District Supervisor at the time, would have had s
Forum: Destructive Churches
15 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Granted Calvary Chapel isn't a perfect church and there are issues of accountability as well as issues of uniformity (I find they are ALL very different from church to church!) much of what you've posted here just doesn't add up. So far you've not given us any facts - just accusations. If someone from Calvary Chapel tried to attack you and your family in any way, WHERE IS
Forum: Destructive Churches
16 years ago
Frank Sumatra
My wife and I have been attending a Priase Chapel church out here in Arizona for several weeks. I have to modify my comments about the nature of PC. In previous posts I have taken up for PC churches in my belief that they are not all the same, and certainly not all cultic in teachings & practice. While I am still persuaded the church I have been going to here is not a cult, I have to
Forum: Destructive Churches
16 years ago
Frank Sumatra
This is silly! Calvary Chapel is not providing guns, ammunition or any other arms for that matter to ANYONE! They might be smuggling Bibles into one of these countries, perhaps an underground missionary here and there. Frank Quote"weblogas"Hello Fellow Travelers I spent 20 years going to Calvary Costa Mesa. Now I feel as if its all wasted. I am totally convinced that t
Forum: Destructive Churches
16 years ago
Frank Sumatra
And your point being? Please, by all means if you have something to say, then do so. I hardly think your drive-by one liner is either compelling in regards to our discussion nor is it enlightening. Given the nature of my inquiry(s) to Pelicangirl I would think it would be obvious that I am indeed curious about the situation she posted about and in fact very interested in how this all plays out.
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Abigail, I am troubled by this as well. I have been involved in several Calvary Chapels over the years and I have never seen or heard any cult-like stuff from any of them. I know most churches who have a lot of young people have something going on everynight of the week. When I say young people I don't necessarilly mean the youth group, I just mean a body of believers who aren't mos
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Was he mean, selfish, and stubborn when he was drinking?
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Pelicangrl, I have a couple questions if you don't mind. As his girl friend where are you in all of this? Do you ever go to church with him? When do you see him if he is always at church or working/sleeping etc? You mention AA and the Starbucks thing. Is your boyfriend in drug or alcohol rehab or is the coffee thing an afront to you? The LDS Mormons condemn coffee as a BIG sin per th
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
So... what's going on with Foursquare's Wayman Mitchell ran Lighthouse church in Santa Monica? Or should I say Mitchell's Foursquare church in Santa Monica pastored by Rob Scribner, the man who is not only a Foursquare licensed minister but also listed on Mitchell's list of CFM pastors? What a barrel of snakes this deal is! Foursquare needs to either grow a pair and demand
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Foursquare has enough bad history without leaving this situation with The Lighthouse Church in Santa Monica and Mr. Rob Scribner flapping in the breeze like a twisted flag. The very fact that Foursquare chooses to do absolutely nothing about this speaks VOLUMES in mega-decibel high definition quality sound. Foursquare nurtured Mitchell and enabled him to become what he did and they empowered him
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Naboth, I agree the shepherding/headship doctrine is out to lunch and I would not go to any church that teaches it Praise Chapel or otherwise. It is indeed as you say a license for abuse and that qualifies it for a CULT! The two PC churches I have refered to on this thread many times do not teach this headship head trip nor do they practice the other abuses that other PC churches evidently engage
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
I see. I feel for you. It's amazing to me the way these things get turned around where the abused falls so quickly into a guilt trip and then apologizes to their abuser. It's the Stockholm Syndrome all over again! Talk about enabling the abuser and making him feel entitled so then he can feel like he is doing his best for 'god' err Mitchell. Then again, there is no difference
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
So let me get this straight... you owe Mr. Rob Scribner, a so-called Foursquare pastor an apology for your telling the truth on this message board about his involvement in a CULT and for his CULTIC behavior and activity in his dealings with the split in the congregation in the Lighthouse Church in Santa Monica, CA - a church that is still listed as a Foursquare Church on their website, (a denomin
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Well, see there ya go Mike. You go to a jail to spead the love of God and there's the cult factor at work even there with someone who is a cultist spewing all this hatred and trash. Love overcomes a multitude of sin the Bible says. You know this to be true because there you were sharing it with those guys. A heart for God responds to love NOT hate. There is a big difference! I heard abou
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Welcome Mike! It's great that you got away from the clutches of an abusive cult. Praise God that you are going thru the healing process. I have found it is quite healthy to get involved in a way that you can possibly help someone else find the truth and be set free from the same kind of circumstances. It really helps to know that you are not alone in this and that you can make a difference e
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Good on ya, Naboth! I don't condemn anyone who decides they need to back off for a spell in order to refocus - whether it's just to back up and re-group or just to spend time with their family at home and their church family. These relationships are important and sometimes we can all get weary from battle fatigue just as any soldier in any confrontation. I myself have been involved in c
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Hawk, I spoke at length this past weekend with a long time friend who was a pastor in Mitchell's CFM Cult who left them in the wake of the 1990 Exodus led by Ron Jones, who pastored independantly afterwards with a majority nucleas of members who didn't split and go back to a Potters House. He has a number of friends who were CFM pastors and in fact was very close to committing to an
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
As I have said before though, I do know of at least one Praise Chapel in AZ that is pastored by a guy who was in CFM waaay back and his assistant pastor who was also CFM waay back, and they do not continue in the CFM cult like teachings (headship, works oriented basis of salvation, emphasis on tithes etc) nor do they have the other Praise Chapel distinctions that you are familiar with. This guy a
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
The big thing I think we have to ask ourselves about this deal is if we back off on a situation like this is what will be our standard of retreat next time? Shall we lower our resistance? Maybe when a Foursquare pastor somewhere embraces the teachings of Charles Rutherford via the Jehovah's Witnesses at his door and then little by little begins to shift his ministry and the direction of the
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Dork, the truth is the folks at the Lighthouse need the TRUTH! That's why this website is here and hopefully why we joined and began posting. I know that's why I did. The folks at the Lighthouse are caught in a trap and that trap is an evil spider web woven by a cult to ensnare people for their control, to manipulate them and abuse them. That Cult is CFM headed by Mitchell whom Rob Scri
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
If Praise Chapel indeed does this universaly within their denomination, that is every Praise Chapel church, one thing is sure: They learned it from Mitchell's CFM Cult! "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" ~ George Orwell Frank Sumatra QuoteHawkIn cults like Praise Chapel, there are signs, but you may not always see them... Praise
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Is Praise Chapel a cult? Gee, I don't know... I do know this: ANY church, movement or group whose pastor teaches anything other than leading people to Jesus is a potential cult. A cult can be readilly identified by control. If that pastor/church doesn't lead people to Jesus and allow Him to control people, that pastor/church is a cult. Jesus never intended for His followers/disciple
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Truth, It has been my experience that NO Mitchellite ever answers to ANY charge by former members OR outsiders and they don't respond well to charges within the Org/church etc. Oh, sure they fume and spew and foam at the mouth with endless charges and accusations of their own, but that is not an answer nor is it a rational or intelligent response. They try like hell to be holier than
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
So Truth, what if you were one of the ones asked to leave? This is just a clear cut picture of how CFM operates! I saw how bitter and angry CFM jerks respond though when the tables were turned in 1990 when the first big split occurred. A CFM pastor was sent to our little town to set up a store front rival church and set about attempting to divide the church I was attending who had split a few mon
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
So what you are saying is basically Foursquare is for sale if there are enough benefactors with the right kind of bank account? Sounds like a deacon of a church I knew who made his money by working hard and by doing the 'right' things. He told us all one day at a guitar pulling at his home one Saturday, "You guys can be rich too if you have the right lawyer and sue the right people
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Furthermore Scribner is acting like the Mitchellite that he is by sending this letter. I don't recall anyone who is really Foursquare sending letters of this kind in cases like this. This alone should be a huge red flag to Jack Hayford.
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
First off, "By their fruits ye shall know them" pretty much sums it up. My thoughts are on this is the mark of a cultist and someone who is bringing division into the Body of Christ, and specifically Foursquare and it's of the highest level especially considering Mitchell's tawdry rebellious history with Foursquare. For anyone to read this Scribner character's let
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Well, that goes without saying or else we wouldn't be here. I was just saying that some people... and they are just part of the group who are being maniupated and deceived. I wouldn't even begin to categorize all the people sitting in the pews of any given cult. Some of the finest Christians I have ever known are people who were once part of CFM - some in leadership as pastors and q
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
Let's face it. Some people like to go to church where they are told what to do and what not to do. They need to be managed. They can't exist unless they are micro-managed. Some see these kind of churches as an opportunity to get their upward mobility going because they don't have a chance anywhere else to succeed. So what do they do? They move right in with the yes-man mentalit
Forum: Destructive Churches
17 years ago
Frank Sumatra
The info he posted is a matter of public record! It's not like nitedork is some fellowship spy trying to uncover secret sin to run to headship with in order to discredit and ultimately destroy that person with. Sound familiar? It should. That's the kind of trash that goes on in Mitchell's cult churches. If this guy Scribner is going to flaunt this kind of behavior in front of the c
Forum: Destructive Churches
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