The info he posted is a matter of public record! It's not like nitedork is some fellowship spy trying to uncover secret sin to run to headship with in order to discredit and ultimately destroy that person with. Sound familiar? It should. That's the kind of trash that goes on in Mitchell's cult churches. If this guy Scribner is going to flaunt this kind of behavior in front of the courthouse it should be not only be posted on the Internet but it should be plastered all over the restroom walls of every service station in AZ and CA as well.

Characteristics of a "image oriented leader":

1. They operate from a false basis of authority;

2. They lack integrity;

3. They wear their spirituality on the outside;

4. Spirituality is a put-on performance, an image they project;

5. They require the recognition of people, calling it respect;

6. They point to themselves as the primary source of knowledge, direction, authority and life.

From the book The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse

Frank, what are your thoughts about this "3 days to repent" correspondence that Rob Scribner and Harrison Sommer wrote to those who wanted nothing to do with Wayman Mitchell in their Foursquare church anymore?

Here is that letter again:

*****

The Lighthouse Church

Our church has just been put through a very difficult and divisive time. The difficulty and division has been as a result of a few individuals who were in disagreement with and/or antagonistic to the vision of the church, its direction and its leadership. It became clear that the goal of these individuals was a complete disassociation with Christian Fellowship Ministries and/or the removal of Pastor Rob by the leadership of the Foursquare denomination. Public statements and criticisms were made by these individuals which, in many instances, did not reflect the truth or the motive, attitude or heart of the pastors.

It is our belief that these actions were wrong and were designed to divide with the ultimate purpose of taking the church in a different direction.

We believe that you were one of these individuals either by your statements or associations. * It is unclear as to whether or not you desire to continue to be a part of the Lighthouse Church. If you do, it is our position that you must recognize that your actions were wrong, that you repent of your wrons and that you can, with a pure heart, commit to the direction of The Lighthouse Church and submit to and support the pastoral leadership of Pastor Rob. Anything short of that would not be in keeping with sound biblical teaching.

This is not in the spirit of retaliation, but rather reconciliation, if that is possible.

If you are unable or unwilling to do what is set forth in this letter, then it is our position that you find another church where you will be able to fully support the pastor and direction of the church. We believe that this is the way that Jesus would have it and how He would conduct His church.

Unless you directly contact one of us to discuss your continuing association or membership at The Lighthouse within 3 days, we will understand that you either cannot or will not seek reconciliation and will no longer attend or have any association with The Lighthouse Church. In that case, we ask that you do not continue to speak against The Lighthouse or its' leadership as we believe that would be coming against a work of God. This would be of no benefit to anyone.

When Jesus prayed for His disciples, He prayed that they be one as He and The Father are one. Unless that unity is at the center of the church, we go against the Gospel and His will.

We stand firm on the essential of unity and hope that you can understand its' necessity and importance.

In His Grace,

Pastor Rob (Scribner) Pastor Harrison (Sommer)

* You are receiving this letter because you were at the meeting on June 3rd or if you did adopt the spirit of those that are spoken of in this letter then you too should acknowledge that it was wrong, repent and decide if you are going to stay at the Lighthouse in agreement with its current direction and Pastor Rob.

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Warrior4Christ
You know nitedork...that is really low when you post people's personal financial records online.
Lets hope you never have your personal information posted online.
That is really crappy of you.
Can you even prove that the interest rate is lower? You are just throwing out false accusations...

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nitedork
it's when you buy a property for investment purposes - to flip and sell, and then lie on the mortgage application saying you're gonna live there.

what you get is a better interest rate.

the info i posted shows him living in arizona.

you know warrior, it's kind of like this - these fellowship pastors can sin with impunity. if harold warner and wayman mitchell look the other way, then no judgement ever falls on these men. and you, as a congregant never get an opportunity to see their true character.

and because you have decided to follow a certain individual into eternity, aren't you curious to know if your leader is the real deal?

here's a plan: fast and pray for a few days. then go into rob's office behind closed doors and ask him some very direct questions.

and just maybe, you'll see it with your own eyes.

First off, "By their fruits ye shall know them" pretty much sums it up.

My thoughts are on this is the mark of a cultist and someone who is bringing division into the Body of Christ, and specifically Foursquare and it's of the highest level especially considering Mitchell's tawdry rebellious history with Foursquare.

For anyone to read this Scribner character's letter and actually stay in his church is following a man not God. If he wants to pass himself off as a man of God then he should first act like one. This letter is proof that he isn't. Jesus didn't set up his church so guys like Scribner can issue "fish or cut bait" ultimatims to people caught in the middle so he can support a renegade like Mitchell.

My thoughts are also I cannot believe Foursquare is leaving this loose end flapping in the breeze! It's loose cannons like Mitchell and Scribner who keep the cult factor going in Pentecostal circles, especially those of the Foursquare off-shoots.

I think it's disgusting. I wouldn't give him or that church the time of day.

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A Truth Seeker
Frank, what are your thoughts about this "3 days to repent" correspondence that Rob Scribner and Harrison Sommer wrote to those who wanted nothing to do with Wayman Mitchell in their Foursquare church anymore?

Here is that letter again:

*****

The Lighthouse Church

Our church has just been put through a very difficult and divisive time. The difficulty and division has been as a result of a few individuals who were in disagreement with and/or antagonistic to the vision of the church, its direction and its leadership. It became clear that the goal of these individuals was a complete disassociation with Christian Fellowship Ministries and/or the removal of Pastor Rob by the leadership of the Foursquare denomination. Public statements and criticisms were made by these individuals which, in many instances, did not reflect the truth or the motive, attitude or heart of the pastors.

It is our belief that these actions were wrong and were designed to divide with the ultimate purpose of taking the church in a different direction.

We believe that you were one of these individuals either by your statements or associations. * It is unclear as to whether or not you desire to continue to be a part of the Lighthouse Church. If you do, it is our position that you must recognize that your actions were wrong, that you repent of your wrons and that you can, with a pure heart, commit to the direction of The Lighthouse Church and submit to and support the pastoral leadership of Pastor Rob. Anything short of that would not be in keeping with sound biblical teaching.

This is not in the spirit of retaliation, but rather reconciliation, if that is possible.

If you are unable or unwilling to do what is set forth in this letter, then it is our position that you find another church where you will be able to fully support the pastor and direction of the church. We believe that this is the way that Jesus would have it and how He would conduct His church.

Unless you directly contact one of us to discuss your continuing association or membership at The Lighthouse within 3 days, we will understand that you either cannot or will not seek reconciliation and will no longer attend or have any association with The Lighthouse Church. In that case, we ask that you do not continue to speak against The Lighthouse or its' leadership as we believe that would be coming against a work of God. This would be of no benefit to anyone.

When Jesus prayed for His disciples, He prayed that they be one as He and The Father are one. Unless that unity is at the center of the church, we go against the Gospel and His will.

We stand firm on the essential of unity and hope that you can understand its' necessity and importance.

In His Grace,

Pastor Rob (Scribner) Pastor Harrison (Sommer)

* You are receiving this letter because you were at the meeting on June 3rd or if you did adopt the spirit of those that are spoken of in this letter then you too should acknowledge that it was wrong, repent and decide if you are going to stay at the Lighthouse in agreement with its current direction and Pastor Rob.

Furthermore Scribner is acting like the Mitchellite that he is by sending this letter. I don't recall anyone who is really Foursquare sending letters of this kind in cases like this. This alone should be a huge red flag to Jack Hayford.

but frank, do you really think foursquare gives a rat's rear-end about scribner? it's his mouthpiece hsommer that has these guys on the hook. his business partners are major benefactors in the van nuys foursquare community.

rob is the baggage that comes along with having powerful allies in berglund, johnson & sommer esq et all.............

rrmod, can we get a little emoticon that







vomits??

:oops: (of course this guy looks like he's about to....)

its been almost three years since this incident happened...
GET OVER IT!
Are you mad because you were one of the ones asked to leave?

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A Truth Seeker
Frank, what are your thoughts about this "3 days to repent" correspondence that Rob Scribner and Harrison Sommer wrote to those who wanted nothing to do with Wayman Mitchell in their Foursquare church anymore?

Here is that letter again:

*****

The Lighthouse Church

Our church has just been put through a very difficult and divisive time. The difficulty and division has been as a result of a few individuals who were in disagreement with and/or antagonistic to the vision of the church, its direction and its leadership. It became clear that the goal of these individuals was a complete disassociation with Christian Fellowship Ministries and/or the removal of Pastor Rob by the leadership of the Foursquare denomination. Public statements and criticisms were made by these individuals which, in many instances, did not reflect the truth or the motive, attitude or heart of the pastors.

It is our belief that these actions were wrong and were designed to divide with the ultimate purpose of taking the church in a different direction.

We believe that you were one of these individuals either by your statements or associations. * It is unclear as to whether or not you desire to continue to be a part of the Lighthouse Church. If you do, it is our position that you must recognize that your actions were wrong, that you repent of your wrons and that you can, with a pure heart, commit to the direction of The Lighthouse Church and submit to and support the pastoral leadership of Pastor Rob. Anything short of that would not be in keeping with sound biblical teaching.

This is not in the spirit of retaliation, but rather reconciliation, if that is possible.

If you are unable or unwilling to do what is set forth in this letter, then it is our position that you find another church where you will be able to fully support the pastor and direction of the church. We believe that this is the way that Jesus would have it and how He would conduct His church.

Unless you directly contact one of us to discuss your continuing association or membership at The Lighthouse within 3 days, we will understand that you either cannot or will not seek reconciliation and will no longer attend or have any association with The Lighthouse Church. In that case, we ask that you do not continue to speak against The Lighthouse or its' leadership as we believe that would be coming against a work of God. This would be of no benefit to anyone.

When Jesus prayed for His disciples, He prayed that they be one as He and The Father are one. Unless that unity is at the center of the church, we go against the Gospel and His will.

We stand firm on the essential of unity and hope that you can understand its' necessity and importance.

In His Grace,

Pastor Rob (Scribner) Pastor Harrison (Sommer)

* You are receiving this letter because you were at the meeting on June 3rd or if you did adopt the spirit of those that are spoken of in this letter then you too should acknowledge that it was wrong, repent and decide if you are going to stay at the Lighthouse in agreement with its current direction and Pastor Rob.

So what you are saying is basically Foursquare is for sale if there are enough benefactors with the right kind of bank account? Sounds like a deacon of a church I knew who made his money by working hard and by doing the 'right' things. He told us all one day at a guitar pulling at his home one Saturday, "You guys can be rich too if you have the right lawyer and sue the right people!"

At least Jesus had the chutzpah to keep Judas from having any influence in his church. And he kept the legal eagles at bay as well. Too bad the church today is tainted with so many betrayers and legalists. Oh, that's right... they're the people who run cults!

I am starting to think not only is CFM a good place to stay away from, but so is Praise Chapel and Foursquare. Saw way too much balogney in Assemblies of God as well, but I won't say that the AOG and Foursquare are cults, but I will say this much, AOG came from Christian and Missionary Alliance (CMA) and Foursquare was birthed from AOG, CFM split from Foursquare and PC came out of the splits from CFM... you get the picture. Of course Calvary Chapel has roots in Foursquare, with Chuck Smith who left them in good graces (and remains as such even today) and started his own work. I don't see CC as a cult at all. They are very user friendly. Nobody gets very close unless you are part of the clique, but there's no membership, no hammering about tithes and those who wish to be in ministry must prove themselves and be accountable as well as seek higher education and experience in matters of ministry and study. The big thing I like about them is there is a pretty relaxed atnosphere without all the emphasis on dress code or mode of worship. You can sit or stand, clap your hands or look stoic. Nobody follws you home to see if you are living with your wife or if you are going to a club or whatever. In short externals are viewed with a less important place in the believers life. No preacher or deacon or whomever is there to judge you. They actually teach the Bible there, and do it in a more organized fashion rather than the haphazard way cults like CFM tend to do, teaching the same stuff over and over to hammer the distinctive doctrines they major on. CC pastors teach thru the Bible and in context instead of zipping around the Book.

I will not go to any church that isn't user friendly. I don't mind them teaching against sin, because the Bible does. If there is no love and only rules and regs from some man and his organization, I am outa there!

Has it ever occurred that Jesus fed the 5000 that day and never took an offering? He asked what food was available, not how much money did they all have. He didn't seem interested in 10% of ANYTHING, did he? I wonder if it ever occurred to any CFM pastor that Mitchell has demanded 10% of all of his churches from what they collect and this is one of the very factors that he split with Foursquare over! He wasn't paying them the 10% from the churches in Foursquare he had oversaw which had been started by men he sent out under his discipleship/church planting program. That 10% was the core issue as to why Ron Jones led over 200 churches out of CFM in early 1990 because he and these pastors were tired of giving Mitchell 10% of everything their churches brought in!

I will say it again: "By their fruits will you know them"

"Follow the money, honey."

Some other things to consider:
Are people being set free by the truth of the Word or are they being hammered with guilt trip after guilt trip where they can never do enough to please God, because the pastor isn't pleased and he let's them know this everytime he sees them? Are people getting to know God in a real way where their lives show the difference in the way they walk and talk or are they on some hyped up religous kick straight out of the cults where everyone else in the world is bad and apostates? Do the folks in the church live a life that speaks of God's love or do they walk around with a constant frown and an unhappy demeanor? Sure all of that can be faked, but they can't fake it 24-7. How are they about sharing with those less fortunate than themselves? Do they care about God's creation or do they just take it all for granted and treat the world as if it's a waste dump? People that really connect with God have a tendacy to reflect how He really is, which is become caring and kind rather than be some selfish person who is angry at everyone. Religous idiots have this "God is up there with a lightning bolt, ready to zap you if you don't... (fill in the blank!)" instead of real spirituality which longs to share God's love with others. It's the love that is the core of the Gospel, not the law! We had 1000's of years under Moses law and not one of those rules had the motivator to enable people to live for God, but the law of Love actually empowers everyday people who want to know God to do just that and a lot more including loving our neighbor as ourselves. This is not the kind of thing you will hear in most churches! They don't dare tell their flock this stuff.

This is the stuff the cults like CFM can't afford to teach and preach because if they did it would jeopradize the control they have on their followers. If their people heard the truth they'd realize they have been lied to, been manipulated and decieved - all in God's name! This is why Paul instructs the truth is to be taught in love. Instead the cults teach lies out of hate and anger! And to think of the the untold numbers of folks who are caught up in that stuff.

Jesus said it best. "You will know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

Would to God that all the poor ones in the seats this Sunday would actually hear the truth.

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nitedork
but frank, do you really think foursquare gives a rat's rear-end about scribner? it's his mouthpiece hsommer that has these guys on the hook. his business partners are major benefactors in the van nuys foursquare community.

rob is the baggage that comes along with having powerful allies in berglund, johnson & sommer esq et all.............