[/quote]

that's true. and yet, when a pastor speaks lies directly at you, it's as if it happened this morning.

[/quote]


Could a person who lies consistently possibly have a psychological disorder?

Consider this from iVillage - Health and Well Being:

The condition that's most associated with pathological lying is sociopathy or antisocial personality disorder, which is characterized by a lack of regard for others' feelings and manipulating others for personal gain (or sometimes just plain amusement). People with antisocial personality disorder also frequently have erratic work histories and substance abuse problems and may engage in criminal activities. I suppose people with antisocial personality disorder can also have ADHD or bipolar disorder, but there's no inherent connection.[/color:33e40931f9]

[health.ivillage.com]

It is downright frightening to hear what has happen to so many people at this church. The lies are used to keep people coming and giving.

A recent conversation I had with a lady who left about 5 years ago told me that if you took the Lighthouse congregation and transplanted them all into Wayman's church in Prescott, 95% of them would leave within 2 months. She said the truth is that they could not handle the no TV, no movie, no vacation rules, the monthly revivals, weekly outreaches, and other demands to prove that they are real Christians. You see, even Scribner doesn't keep the rules - he is playing a religious game - trying to feed his massive ego from the mouth of Mitchell and Warner. This lady saw Rob one time give a 10 minute kiss-butt introduction to Harold Warner. What is the purpose for that? Only to hope he could get to preach in Warner's church?

It is so clearly evident that this place has nothing to do with the Christian faith, but to build a personal kingdom for a sad little man.

One last post from me……..

I’ve been thinking things over lately, and I need to move on with my life. The great divide that happened at the lighthouse continues to affect me and many others to this day. Those of us who were at the church pre-CFM remember it a certain way, and those who joined post-CFM probably don’t understand what all the fuss is about.

A few things I wish I had not said….

Rebekka loves her parents. All teenagers have a few choice words and tense situations now and then. That was not a good illustration for me to be using. I’ve had my own teenager tell me what a jerk I can be from time to time. Unfortunately, there is no edit button to delete the post.

Pastor Rob, it looks like you’ve got your hands full with real estate activity. At the time it probably seemed like a good idea. In reading my posts, it is unclear if I stopped short of calling a few of your transactions fraudulent. Let me qualify and say that while claiming owner-occupancy in an investment property is such, that may not be your case at all. Unfortunately, I cannot edit my posts and completely remove that language. Lower your prices, sell the houses and move on.

And Pastor Rob, you’ve got your hands full in the church. Do what you think is best. God does a much better job of sorting out matters than I do. It’s never going to be the same as the old days, and I just need to accept that. Instead of exploring ways to warn people about the Lighthouse, I’ll pray for God’s direction upon the church. I’ll also pray that someday we can have a true reconciliation. And since this is a Christian-based website, I’ll do the Christian thing and ask your forgiveness for adding to your burden.

The funny thing is, I’m just as much a sinner as public figures who are such easy targets to criticize. If I tried to pastor a church it would be a disaster. I’m sure my name would be splashed all over the Rick Ross website.

When I chat on the board I lose sight of the fact that it’s more than 3 – 4 people I’m talking to. There are many viewers out there. And to you viewers, I have probably added things to your lives that you don’t need added. If you’re at the Lighthouse,or any other CFM church, get on fire for God, and encourage your pastor to do the right thing. It sure beats the heck out of second-guessing him, saying things you wish you didn’t, and having to apologize later.

I have kindly asked the moderators to delete the thread, which may or may not happen. I certainly cannot control what other people will say, but as for me, the war is over. I need to go back to my Lord and figure out what’s next in my life.

From the heart,

NiteDork

Dork, the truth is the folks at the Lighthouse need the TRUTH! That's why this website is here and hopefully why we joined and began posting. I know that's why I did. The folks at the Lighthouse are caught in a trap and that trap is an evil spider web woven by a cult to ensnare people for their control, to manipulate them and abuse them. That Cult is CFM headed by Mitchell whom Rob Scribner has alligned himself with and has systematically been directing the Lighthouse church into and Foursquare has stood by idly for these FIVE years and have done NOTHING about it! It speaks to the impotency of Foursquare for sure, and it is something that Hayford inherited when Risser retired. More than that it speaks to compromise of integrity by Scribner who is supposed to be a Foursquare pastor. He hasn't acted like a pastor at all. Like Mitchell long before him he has betrayed his denomination and has acted in rebellion to their bylaws. The Lighthouse is either a Foursquare Church or it is a CFM church... it cannot be both. The congregants thereneed to know the truth about the history of CFM and Mithcell. They need to know the TRUTH! It will set them free. If we don't share that truth then we become partners with their captors and abusers!

The big thing I think we have to ask ourselves about this deal is if we back off on a situation like this is what will be our standard of retreat next time? Shall we lower our resistance? Maybe when a Foursquare pastor somewhere embraces the teachings of Charles Rutherford via the Jehovah's Witnesses at his door and then little by little begins to shift his ministry and the direction of the church until finally one day he nails a Kingdom Hall sign above the Foursquare Church door and begins passing out The Watchtower to his congregation, maybe then Foursquare get off their duffs and decide to oversee their churches with integrity and maybe then we will begin to see and understand how a little leaven spoils the lump!

I understand because some people have hurts that are deep seated that this discussion has brought to light, which indeed may have opened some of those wounds. All the same we all have to realize that hurts such as these which are swept under the rug go untended where they fester and thus go unhealed. As painfull is it is the only way that festering sore balled up under a dirty rug is ever going to heal is for that rug to be stripped off and cast aside and the wound laid bare so it can indeed be cleaned out in order for the healing process to begin.

To back off now and let the CFM CULT get their hooks into these wounded people deeper without continuing to hold the banner of truth high is just unthinkable. It's adding insult to injury and not being our brother's keeper. That's one of the problems I have with the modern day Western church. It's too easy to just turn the other cheek and not earnestly contend for the faith.

I HATE Cults! And I despise groups that enable them, which is why I am ticked off at Foursquare! The cultist feels entitled. Why? Because others enable them, that's why! Well, I for one am here to disable them.

:D Well said Frank!

I am another who is not going to back off on this one. This cult destroy the lives of many. I will do what I can to expose them. I can understand Nitedorks position though. Fighting against these groups can be wearying and when you want to get on with your life and leave the past behind and make peace it can seem like the best thing to do.
I think everyone needs to make up their own minds on how they deal with groups like this. For me I feel good about what I do. I threw my life into the fellowship, prayed for, witnessed for and preached for the fellowship and all in the name of the God I Know and love. It bothers me to this day knowing that there are many others who will go through the pain and torment that I went through and all because of this sadistic cultic organisation and all for the benefit of a few corrupt people at the top.

My prayers go out to all who suffer at the hands of the Potters House and all connected to it. You deserve better. I aim to give you that chance to have better by arming you with the information you need to make a decision on this organisation so you can leave without an unbearable burden of condemnation on your back.

I know what it's like I've been there.

God bless you....naboth675

[www.habakkuk2-4.com]

[b:18e29550c4]I have found this site to be very helpful. I was involved in an abusive church for 16 and a half years and I hav e been out for a year and a half and we are going through a lot of healing but I am shocked at the churches out there doing thet same things to all those people. I am thankful for this site and the help it is to us in the healing process.[/b:18e29550c4]

Good on ya, Naboth! I don't condemn anyone who decides they need to back off for a spell in order to refocus - whether it's just to back up and re-group or just to spend time with their family at home and their church family. These relationships are important and sometimes we can all get weary from battle fatigue just as any soldier in any confrontation. I myself have been involved in cult awareness since the late 70's and there have been long periods where I backed off completely. I do understand because during those times I had to pack up my books and other materials and just put that stuff out of sight so I could concentrate on other things. But I always come back.

Growing up in a First Baptist church which instructed it's members from the pulpit to slam the door in the cultists face kind of got to me after a few years. When they knocked on our doors with those Watchtowers in hand preaching doom and gloom mixed with heretical doctrines OR the clean cut young men with 'burning breasts' and starched white shirts on 10 speed bikes with their Book of Mormon, we were to just not say a word and slam the door. The pastors told us it was because we didn't know as much about the Bible as the cultists do, so we would be no match for them. The pastors insisted that we slam the door in their faces without so much as a word to go to our neighbors to peddle their mindless manipulative cult to. Another facet of their teaching at the Baptist church explicitly said we were not to witness to people on our own, but instead we were to either leave tracts anonymously, which had the church address and ph # stamped on the back OR we were to simply invite them to our church. We were never really urged to witness or taught how to witness except we were to live sinless lives so that we would not bring reproach against the 'church', which I always interpreted as the Baptist church instead of the Body of Christ which is the global 'Church' of Jesus Christ. "Just live clean, don't talk to cults and invite everyine to our church!" That was their watchword in a nutshell.

All of these things weighed heavilly on my mind and heart. How could we not stand in our own doorways and not ernestly contend for the faith? How could we possibly feel the urge to witness to someone and not just 'do it' instead of going about it the way my church said? How could we just simply invite someone to church and expect that person to respond? What if I invite them on Tuesday and before Sunday they die? Hasn't the Lord set us free as Christians to not only be living witnesses with changed lives so that we may walk that walk, but also given us the power to talk the walk to our neighbors and to tell strangers about it? How could we possibly stand by and allow a cultist to wander from our slammed door to our neighbors and let them spew their cult prattle in order to deceive them? This things ought not so to be as Paul said!

There was a time when it was important for me to deal with other matters and let this cult thing go. I had other priorities and some circumstances prevented me from committing to cult awareness issues. That's OK. We have to do what we have to do and what the Lord allows us to do. When it's time to reconnect and get involved again we will return with a new fire and hopefully a fresh perspective born out of time away which can and will produce a new paradigm shift within and that alone can make a big difference on how effective we are.

There is a LOT of truth out there. Sadly the large percentage of it is wrapped in lies!

Frank

Quote
naboth675
:D Well said Frank!

I am another who is not going to back off on this one. This cult destroy the lives of many. I will do what I can to expose them. I can understand Nitedorks position though. Fighting against these groups can be wearying and when you want to get on with your life and leave the past behind and make peace it can seem like the best thing to do.
I think everyone needs to make up their own minds on how they deal with groups like this. For me I feel good about what I do. I threw my life into the fellowship, prayed for, witnessed for and preached for the fellowship and all in the name of the God I Know and love. It bothers me to this day knowing that there are many others who will go through the pain and torment that I went through and all because of this sadistic cultic organisation and all for the benefit of a few corrupt people at the top.

My prayers go out to all who suffer at the hands of the Potters House and all connected to it. You deserve better. I aim to give you that chance to have better by arming you with the information you need to make a decision on this organisation so you can leave without an unbearable burden of condemnation on your back.

I know what it's like I've been there.

God bless you....naboth675

[www.habakkuk2-4.com]

Welcome Mike! It's great that you got away from the clutches of an abusive cult. Praise God that you are going thru the healing process. I have found it is quite healthy to get involved in a way that you can possibly help someone else find the truth and be set free from the same kind of circumstances. It really helps to know that you are not alone in this and that you can make a difference even if it is only in comiserating and encouraging that other person. We don't have to look very far to see yet another cult busy at the devils business.

Someone reminded me today that you can easilly guage whether a group is a cult by looking at the first 4 chapters of Genesis. God promised to take care of Adam and Eve and simply asked them to trust Him. The serpent in the tree lied to them when he twisted God's message and qualified His promise to them. He posed a question to them, "Has God not said..." and them presumed to present the 'truth' behind God's word to them. He lied and he has been lying ever since via other men who have taken up the same warped message. Does the church or preacher down the street or on TV preach the real truth or is it another spin of lies? God asked Adam and Eve to trust Him and promised to take care of them. He doesn't change and neither does He lie. Even today, THAT is the same message: "Trust me and I will take care of you." The serpent/devil/cultist twists that around and puts unreal conditions on the message that God never put in.

The cults omit that God is a loving God and that He is a giving God. Their 'god' is one that is angry and hateful, and one that is consumed with taking everything away from us. The cults hold us on the threshold of hell itself and heap fear into our lives and demand that we PAY for our shortcomings and do WORKS for our standing with God, which they assume the power over in our lives. They profess to have the keys of hell and death, when the Bible plainly teaches that Jesus alone has those two keys. Their deviance is usually subtle. Once we get hooked we enable them to abuse. Once they feel entitled by our committement to "their" message they are enabled to abuse, to manipulate and to decieve and to do with us as they wish. It's a vicious cycle but the TRUTH of God's word can break it. The love of God can heal it. His touch can remove that sting and our faith can soar. His truth, His love and His word enables us to walk in His faith and live our lives in Him. The cultist seeks to hide these truths so we might serve them instead of God.

Glad that you got out!

Quote
JustPlainMike
[b:65c09df703]I have found this site to be very helpful. I was involved in an abusive church for 16 and a half years and I hav e been out for a year and a half and we are going through a lot of healing but I am shocked at the churches out there doing thet same things to all those people. I am thankful for this site and the help it is to us in the healing process.[/b:65c09df703]

Thank you for your kind words. I had the chance to tell of God's great love and grace at the jails last night and I enjoyed every minute of it. I gave the word of God and told how He loved everyone there and that He was a tender caring Father that gave us HIs best when He sent His Son to be our atonement for sin. They responded in a way that brought tears to my eyes and I was over joyed to see His Spirit move in that cell. Then I had to go into another cell and listen to someone that was a friend until I left that ministry. He preached condemnation and fear and I could see the looks on all the men and I saw that they were not responding to it at all. It seem to drive them all away but there was one man that seemed to fear the most and he was the one that wanted to be saved again so he would not go to hell and suffer the rath of an angry God. I was so sick at this that I could not stand in agreement with that preaching so I did what I could and walked to the very front door and waited for it to be over. I was not incharge of the ministry so I could say nothing when this took place. I watched as this man rebuked two prisoners for not paying attention while he spoke and he did this openly in front of everyone. I wanted to speak up at that point but as I said I was not in charge of the ministry. The sad theing is this. The one that is the head Chaplin knows that he was wrong and that he teaches false doctrine but he allows it to continue due to his skin color. I say stand and speak out and give them the word in truth and love with compasion and let the Holy Spirit do the work. The one thing I can't do is be silent any longer. I must leave this part of the country just because my wife and children can't get past all that has been done to them. Every where they go they are reminded of the abuse do tothe fact that everyone in that place has turned on us and even lashes out at us. I have handled it up to now but I am just a man and unable to sit and let this continue so we will be moving across country and starting fresh. We know there is this type of abuse everywhere but we need a fresh start but I will never stay silent again. We start with the truth and we stay with the truth and His love and nothing will ever turn us from that again. Not to sure why I am saying all of this but it is very helpful to let it out. God bless and keep you all.

Well, see there ya go Mike. You go to a jail to spead the love of God and there's the cult factor at work even there with someone who is a cultist spewing all this hatred and trash. Love overcomes a multitude of sin the Bible says. You know this to be true because there you were sharing it with those guys. A heart for God responds to love NOT hate. There is a big difference!

I heard about a guy who went to a bar one night while on the streets with a street witnessing team with the pastor and others from The Door Christian Fellowship Church he was once part of. He just decided to walk in there and start preaching at the top of his lungs. "You're ALL going to go to HELL!" he yelled, "You're ALL a bunch of sinners!" Surprisingly nobody got off their barstools and nobody stopped dancing or playing pool or even posed a threat to him. (It's a miracle that he didn't get his butt whipped!) One guy just turned to him from the bar and said, "So, tell me something we don't know!" The guy just stood there and didn'd say a word and finally he turned to walk out the door and just before he did all he said was, "You people aren't interested in God!" Then he walked out and told everyone from the team what had happened. Of course he was applauded for his efforts and slapped on the back for his incredible witness to a bar full of drunk whoremongering sinners. This is THE MESSAGE of the Cults like CFM! They don't preach God's love or forgiveness. Not once did this fellow tell any of those people in that bar that God loved them and had sent His son Jesus to die for their sins or anything else the Bible teaches. Nothing but judgement and abandonment. Just a load of condemnation, that's what they have.

Those guys in that jail and the folks in that bar, they know deep inside what truth is and when love comes knocking at their door they may not accept it, at least not at that particular moment, but they do know what it is. It's the opposite of what the world gives which is hate and lies. It's sad that the Cults like CFM are so bent on imitating the world in this manner rather than being an imitation of Christ, the very one whom they claim to represent.

Keep the faith Brother and thanks for making a stand.

Christianity isn't about church... Church should be about Christianity!