QuoteThis conditioning, not the vision which it projects, is the actuality, the fact. To understand the fact is simple; but it is made difficult by our likes and dislikes, by our condemnation of the fact, by the opinions or judgments we have about the fact. To be free of these various forms of evaluation is to understand the actual, the what is. Thats what they tell the new recruits. Ve
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Meditation Upon a Vase of Flowers QuoteThe Anticult she coaches people to be like a vase of flowers, passive and accepting, and this allows Byron Katie to move into your mind. Lets look at what happens with 'a vase of flowers.' The flowers are cut off from their roots before being inserted into that vase and water. Once in the vase, the flowers can last only a certain tim
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

For the record, I met a lady who had been in a Gurdjieff group and she took the initiative in referring to G as 'the old b----d.' She'd been kicked out after 8 years because she'd asked too many questions. Luckily for her, others had been kicked out earlier and instead of shunning them, she'd stayed in touch, so she had built in support. Despite this, her marriage wen
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

A Sufi author who was involved in a Gurdjieff group with what appears to be a venerable pedigree has some intriguing information. The group was reportedly not pleased when he chose to leave. The author has an entire library of topics on spiritual abuse within Sufism and..another library of essays on general Sufi topics here: 'Streams to the Ocean In the Gurdjieff ess
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yes, it is common that some cults teach that the modern world is going to the dogs. Gurus borrow ideas from all kinds of sources. But those ideas can be used to support everything from kindness to cruelty--it depends on the attitude of the person exploiting that material. No matter how decent a belief system it can be corrupted into a nightmare by any power hungry person who has unresolved
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Regarding Gurjieffs claim to teach esoteric Christianity--I dont buy it. Christianity teaches the inherant dignity of the ordinary human being. To teach as G did that people dont have souls unless they engage in special exercises to develop souls and are otherwise machines and food for the moon--that is incompatible with any belief system based in inherant dignity of the human person. Th
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

If interested, one can read the customer reviews for Mark Sedgwick's book Against the Modern World, here. Sedgwick's own introduction to Traditionalism is described in the prologue of Against the Modern World. A friend of Sedwicks who had converted to Islam lent him a book by Guenon. Quote 'The book looked innocent enough' Sedwick wrote. 'a Penguin paperba
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

There is an additional and extensive survey article on Gurdjieff matters here on the message board
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Sufis have had severe travails. As if distortions from Gurdjieff and Shah were not enough, yet another ideology, traditionalism, has used Sufism as a means to an end. Native American spirituality, throughout the Americas, found itself misrepresented and commercially distorted by opportunists such as Carlos Castaneda. A similar set of misfortunes befell Sufism. Genuine Sufis are modest much as
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quote:corboy I want to meet that cockroach. ON2LF wrote: LOL! I second that..I'm beginning to think, maybe that bug is worth getting acquainted with! Corboy again: A one inch cockroach ran up into my pants leg twice, not once, twice. And in the nastiest men's bathroom in town. To think that I coulda used this as evidence of being enlightened and gotten rich and famou
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yeah, at least you KNOW you are joining or are being invited to join the military. This means that you can, well in advance of signing up, learn about what you are in for. Veterans are readily available and will gladly tell you what they've been through--this, before you even sign up. And military veterans are not subject to reprisals or retaliatory lawsuits by telling you what they&
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Travelling Jewish Theatre once did a show entitled Sometimes We Need a Story More than Food. I have not yet looked it up, but there is a cookbook of recipes that were secured from a manuscript. Women who were imprisoned in, I think Terezin or one of the other concentration camps, told stories of the recipes they had used at home, wrote them down, keeping the image of home in thier minds, when
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The Roman satirical poet Persius put it this way: 'Anyone who wants to bowl me over will need to weep genuine tears, not rehearsed the night before.' (Persius Satire One line 90. Niall Rudd's translation) Damn...years back in my student days, I worked in at the local homeless shelter. One day, I was cleaning the men's room, and a one inch cockroach ran over--and
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I want to meet that cockroach.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hello friends: If anyone gets PM's (private messages) that just dont smell right, feel free to send a copy of that PM to Mr. Ross. That's what I always do. This is especially recommended if someone asks us to post something on the board for them, or just plain gets weird on us via PM.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

This is from a blog describing another entity. But the insights apply to quite a few other human potential franchises. QuoteImpact Trainings takes the expensive trainings of a Scientology, pop-psychs them up, prices them for the middle class, emotionally manipulates people into going through the trainings in relatively quick succession, without having to show long term results. Wit
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Some time after this incident, Mr. Novak was reportedly diagnosed with a brain tumor.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Here is a case study of how several licensed therapists got into hot water when they 1) let an unlicensed guru give them instructions on how to do therapy with clients and 2) the therapists used the therapeutic alliance to recruit clients into the guru's group. The therapists, whose professions were regulated by law were the ones who took the rap. The unlicensed guru went scot fr
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

And those with licenses forget that if they offer a procedure that does not meet legally mandated standards for care, they, not BK, not Oprah or (fill in name of charismatic entrepreneur/euse here), it the person with the license who is the one who is legally vulnerable in the event that a patient or client incurs harm. And...its not necessarily a disenchanted patient or client who instigate
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Okay, okay. But for someone who is 'unattached' to the e-gadget, you've put a lot of one helluva lot of energy into posting about it.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Never mind my opinion about the Myers Briggs. What is interesting is you call yourself guruphobic, yet you seem as emotionally invested in the e--gram and whoever taught it to you, as if these were your guru. You say you dont take it very seriously, merelyu found it useful, yet all I had to do was express my opinion that the ethingie was part of the cultic milieu and all at once its as though
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The enneagram, IMO is a device that facilitates cold reading--a way to ask questions, elicit information, give open ended answers that seem specific to an individuals life but are one-size-fits all. And its transmitted in a context of giddy excitement quite different from the context in which I heard psychometrics taught at my university. If the people into the enneagram had played it strai
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hope wrote: "but they were so comfortable with him that they thought he had and/or thought it was forthcoming. And he was the treasurer!" If we read enough first person accounts, what hope and Solea describe show up again, and again and again. One thing these folks do and do very well is they treat human relationship as a giant game of chess. In practice, they learn to surround
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

You need a lawyer. This isnt something to go into alone.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Y'know, it may be that we face a built in quandry when trying to make sense of these lovely experiences. The experience itself feels overwhelming, marvellous and magical perhaps because we are in a quite different state of mind and physiology than the state of mind and physiology called to play when we investigate these experiences. The language of investigation the state of mind need
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

A Wee List of Wilber Critiques (In all his studies of gurus and spirituality, KW has never, but ever made any use of Zimbardo's Prison Experiment. Yet, Zimbardo was a participant in a seminar convened in the 1980s by Wilber, Eckler and Dick Anthony, whose findings were published in the book, Spiritual Choices. Yet despite being listed as a participant, Professor Zimbardo was neve
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteThe AnticultThere are lots of so-called "Yoga" groups which are little more than front groups for cults. Its the best way to get people in. Yoga is trendy and to most people they think its like an exercise class. They then start slipping people the Swami, when they are bent over in the Downward Dog...so to speak... Hey, if I were an ambitious eastern based Guru in the west,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

"It seems (like Elena said) that there is a kind of inherited anger coming from Werner Erhard." It is as though the EST tech implanted material from WE's core into others. Psychoanalysts call this the internalized introject. In childhood we can incorporate features of the adult personalities around us, slowly, gradually and in a way that supports our true developing selves.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

To market 'enlightenment' is to foster delusion. For that kind of message makes it seem enlightenment is something that actually has a separate inherant existence and can be grasped at and attained. Enlightenment means understanding that there's nothing inherantly separated. That's what is taught in Buddhism. The mechanics of marketing and 'this-workshop-will-give-you-
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

? American Hidden Tantra? ---------------------------------------------------- for a sample, here is a chapter from Marta Szabo's blog. Read it and the comments. One thing that is very interesting is the matter of whether to keep using the mantra (OM Nama Shivaya) one learned in Siddha Yoga, or to give it up. If LGAT tech was incorporated into a seemingly ancient Hindu praxis
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"