I'm not so sure that it's all about money... although it may be in large degree about what money represents , ... power, autonomy, respect, ownership... such a majority of these New Age personal empowerment scenes have some form of skewed sexual preoccupation about them, in some cases explicit, in some cases implicit... one must wonder that perhaps the founders of these things and/or
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Look, sex... or the suggestive promise of sex... or the breaching of sexual boundaries as a way of getting deep into someone's psyche is almost standard technique from the old practices of Sex Magick to Baghwan Rajhneesh to pre-Landmark est ... est had massive bombardment of extremely kinky sex in it's Six Day program... a subpopulation of the attendees of the old est programs were th
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Gaaaaaad that Heidegger was full of shit. I guess that makes Heidegger's followers full of meta-shit. Double gaaaaaaad, Ron Hubbard meets continental philosophy.... stew that with Dale Carnegie, add a dose of misapplied physics and some freakzoid dimly hinted at eschatology, an astounding pornography collection, Esalen's hot tubs, Ed Bradley's incredulous expression.... I mean, Don
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Quoteelena I'm pretty sure this expression came from L. Ron Hubbard's scientology and was/is used by an "auditor" (the guy who fiddles with the dials of an "E-Meter" and asks sort of open-ended questions). As he probes deeper and deeper into problem areas and back down the "time-line." the examinee or pupil ("pre-clear") is supposed to do somethi
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Which all goes to show that.... language and thought and worldview are intimately related... LGATS that use a constipated, linguistically impoverished "model" of reality will, in essence, entrap the LGATees with a bizarre exactly-inexact-clearly-unclear confusing vocabulary loaded with unresolved paradoxes, sort of language as chinese puzzle or M.C. Escher lithograph that goes round a
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

and of course, my own thoughts through the korean roundtrip: It was different and inside "this restauant talking that it is that it recommends when with the thing together vast quantity weight.... the duration.... as that logic which is not reversed inside the thses respective areas and the consistency connected and gave writing logical combination cohesion characteristic this imitati
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and Korean, my favorite... this one I think truly captures the full flavor of Landmark speech patterns: It goes out and as this I of grudge what share this weekend in you and Sip i increase. Me in landmark education there was an hour of my life. Me inside my living it is a retention or after and if it found out the like this many thing, the B where them will be isolated is anything it does
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and some russian: I wish to divide with you, that I have made in this уикэнд. I had time of my life in Significant Formation. I have learned a lot of prophetic which have constrained me in my life, and now when those is outside of a way which I have only a boundless opportunity in my future! From this formation I also have returned my
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Could someone explain to me why all of these pseudo-testimonial emenations have the same breathless, gushy, California valley girl, infomercialish.... ummmm.... inauthenticity about them.... this needy, insistent, oh so sincere, pestering, childish, wide eyed, prim, schoolmarmish tone of chirpy bubbly pizzazz .... just like recommending a good restauant to a friend.... of course, my sweet, so
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

We are on track. The reason you won't find much you can use in mainstream sources is 1, nobody wants to tangle with a potentially litigious organization, especially nobody in the magazine publishing business, 2. the APA and psycholocial community doesn't have a clear paradigm for dealing with these issues, although many infomed psychologists have their own strong personal opinions, 3,
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteAcid Reindeer or he can dismiss any other evidence as merely anecdotal. though I do know of a couple of lawsuits but I don't know that they total ten or more. the older ones he can dismiss as pertaining to est and not to Landmark, I want to make this case air-tight. Well, there are a couple of outstanding issues that have to be addressed walking into this inquiry. First of all is the
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Oh boy, isn't his tantalizing.... on September 06, 2001 Landmark Education was ready to take the scalps of John or Jane Does #1-20... and their complaint is something pitiful to read... saying in essence, that their stuff can't withstand the criticism of of one obnoxiously accurate anonymous emailer.... contemplate that grimy paradox... in the training room, they are mighty, potent,
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QuoteAcid Reindeer a LEC apologist has made the claim that a million people have done LEC (I suspect that he has lumped in est and the Forum in with that figure, without knowing it of course, just repeating the information given to him by Landmark) and that just one in a hundred thousand have suffered psychologically. Ummmm.... in ever so typical Landmarkian fashion... they will announce some
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quoteelena "Myles" was a phoney. They're easy to spot when you know the formula. They show up here and everywhere else there are unflattering things said about Landmark. They are singularly lacking in imagination and tend to repeat the same retread script over and over (as have you). Ellen You will notice this about them... particularly if you have been aware of them over a lo
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Ah yes.. the anti cult cult ploy .... another standard issue table turner... this manoeuver crops up with just enough regularity, and has been thusly cropping up over the years, that it now seems to be one of the standard rhetorical tub thumpings that comes from way yonder round the bend... now, good people, why please do the trainers go to such initial efforts to make light of how "some
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoterrmoderatorHey everybody-- this thread is about MKP, not AA or Scientology. Let's try to focus on the topic. True enough... however, in my experience it is useful, enlightening, and sometimes breathtakingly revealing when you trace the geneology of ideas... where do these things spring from ? What sources inspied the creators of these couses/events/trainings ??? ... IF (that
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

FWIW.... xenu.net has this enlightening tidbit of historical information... in case you had your doubts about exactly where these "management technologies" might spring from: ""Phill Scott" posted: When I was at the cults Sacramento Calif Org in 1975 I was taken into the US Guardians offices and shown their book shelf where Adolf Hitlers, Mein Kaumph was pointed ou
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Fernando Flores ..... a major hidden force in the history of est and the thinking that animates Landmark today.... it was also he who introduced the concept of "coaching" as a non-sports related human interaction... you can thank him for the proliferation of "life coaches" in this day and age.... in the early 80s, Flores tried to organize work around a cluster of linguist
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteMyles Well, I did feel like I had to think in a totally different way in order to understand the distinctions. The Forum leader had us all thinking in a way that we had not thought before. It took a long time too. People had a very hard time grabbing on to these concepts. Okay. So, I think I can see your point. I'm not convinced that it was bad or negative for me right now, but I
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

QuoteDynamix One day they're this big possibility making machine getting all the wins and the next day they're just G O N E. What happens here? How can someone be so transformed and then the next day just be erased from the picture and everyone just accepts it? So much for 'the group' so much for 'either everyone gets it or nobody does. High demand organizations ? It s
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

These groups.... which ones ? The charismatic, we are the keepers of the true message, we have touched the hem of the great one, we are a community of conscious.... they tell themselves satisfying, ego inflating stories all the time, patiently waiting for the world to wake up and get how fabulously significant they are ... like the equal and opposite force of Newtonian Mechanics, they can't
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

One could opine that using one specialized area of knowledge, such as physics, to talk about another area of knowledge, such as human behavior is in poor form.... Educated people seem to understand the difference between a metaphor ... where one thing is used as an image to refer to something else because of some meaningful similarities, and that comparison is made to assist the receiving m
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotemidonov123 There are some similarities between QM and EST in that it cannot be fully understood.. What are these people thinking ? Did it never cross their minds that quantum events take place at quantum scales ??? The Erhardians appear to have made some fantastic, untenable extrapolation from a model, a set of hypotheses, an attempt to form useful abstractions about things that are ver
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

In all honesty, I'd have to see this wonderful piece of creative expression before passing judgement.... as a general observation, vanity projects such as these have a whiff of desperation about them... because they go begging the question... IF this purported saint was, in fact, in general perception, made of the stuff he and his people insist that he is, then why haven't legitimate (i
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

or it could trace back to a severe head injury as a child... a surprising number of guru figures have had diseases like meningitis, head trauma, or clinical depression, like Baghwan Rajneesh... seems like something switches around in their minds... it does sound like "von savage" and "erhard" have strong power/dominance cravings associated with them in a connotative way... wou
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

He was also known as Jack Frost and Kurt Wilhelm Von Savage... by the way... that's Werner Hans Erhard .... did no one in his milieu find these identity shifts more than a little bizarre ?
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Quote You might well be suffering some sort of neurosis that gets in the way of your success but these people aren't the ones to diagnose or treat whatever it is that is bothering you, if something is indeed bothering you. To say the least. I engaged one of their in-the-pipeline trainees about the unconscious mind, unconscious mental processes, whether there was an unconscious mind , a
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Her writings sound irrational, implacable, reruns of the same old global conspiracy crap ... the same rehashed "money isn't real since we went off the gold standard" , "taxes are illegal confiscation" right wing nutjobbery poured into a convoulted new age vessel... basically every cliche under the sun slathered with mayonaisse and pressed between two slices of moldy rye
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotetoby111 i went open about my problems and the leader said "" YOU WORK HARD TO FAIL "". i want to know what it means.the leader never really explained it. have anyone of u who have participated in landmark forum come across the above quote. can u tell me what it means. thanks :-) :roll: They never explain what they mean, and if you ask them directly to explain
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Landmark, Like est before it, doesn't have the perceptual or intellectual flexibility to "see themselves in the round" ... their processes affect people in a wide range of ways... some report benefits and some report destructive outcomes, and there's a lot of ambivalent stuff in the middle. At the root of it they are rigidly systematic ... the trainers have no idea what to
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"