It is common for supporters to excuse Landmark for their lawsuits and tactics, saying "Well, they're a business. They have to do what they have to do to protect the business."
So my question is not so much about the Landmark leadership being "out of integrity" in trying to erase Charla Mack from existence. My question is why do the Landmark supporters also remain so silent.
Charla Mack was someone from the Landmark community. Here's a web page about her participation:
[web.archive.org]
You have to read about her in the web archives because Landmark scrubbed her out of existence on their own web site. They didn't even do a very good job, because on this page:
[www.ilovepossibility.info]
if you click on the link for "The First Ever Landmark Forum to Manila, the Philippines" you get a page not found error. They simply hit the delete key on the pages that mention Charla Mack without fixing links to them.

Why are not Landmark supporters outraged that a community member has been erased? Are they happy to forget about her too? Is that being "fully expressed"? I don't understand how a mind can sustain such incongruity.

Quote
joe6
It is common for supporters to excuse Landmark for their lawsuits and tactics, saying "Well, they're a business. They have to do what they have to do to protect the business."
So my question is not so much about the Landmark leadership being "out of integrity" in trying to erase Charla Mack from existence. My question is why do the Landmark supporters also remain so silent.
Charla Mack was someone from the Landmark community. Here's a web page about her participation:
[web.archive.org]
You have to read about her in the web archives because Landmark scrubbed her out of existence on their own web site. They didn't even do a very good job, because on this page:
[www.ilovepossibility.info]
if you click on the link for "The First Ever Landmark Forum to Manila, the Philippines" you get a page not found error. They simply hit the delete key on the pages that mention Charla Mack without fixing links to them.

Why are not Landmark supporters outraged that a community member has been erased? Are they happy to forget about her too? Is that being "fully expressed"? I don't understand how a mind can sustain such incongruity.

I agree with you this is outrageous and a sign of cowardice. But I think with their skewed logic, Landmark authorities can always justify their own act by arguing this is about getting complete with the past! It's BS of course, but they can get away with just about anything. When you are not afraid of ridicule, anything is possible.

I don't necessarily think it is about charla mack, its more to do with distancing themselves from what happened. and any mention of charla links landmark to it. But you are right Midonov it is outrageous and it is a sign of cowardice, it shows the true nature of the company, they don't care about people, just about profits

These groups.... which ones ? The charismatic, we are the keepers of the true message, we have touched the hem of the great one, we are a community of conscious....[b:7a365c42bc] they tell themselves satisfying, ego inflating stories all the time, patiently waiting for the world to wake up and get how fabulously significant they are [/b:7a365c42bc]... like the equal and opposite force of Newtonian Mechanics, they can't deal with the downside of being so permanently impeccable, so Werner + Carlos + Fernando, so on message, so getting it, so handled, so tight assed and righteous... this downside being that they can't see the [b:7a365c42bc] adolescent rigidity [/b:7a365c42bc] that shapes these mental processes which then shape these self images which then shape their [b:7a365c42bc] institutional mythologies. [/b:7a365c42bc]

In other words, [b:7a365c42bc] they can't handle discrepant messages [/b:7a365c42bc] and their collective neurotic defense mechanisms switch on to neutralize anything that might suggest [b:7a365c42bc] sub-impeccability [/b:7a365c42bc] ... they just don't have the gut strength to admit their weaknesses, their absurdities, the general weirdness of their former fearless leader...

I don't think it is so much stupidity or evil as it is fearfulness. It finally dawned on me. These are fearful people and they are trying to control their fear through rigidly structuring their thought patterns. Healthy ? No.
Strangely effective in maintaining an organizational structure ? Yeah, sort of...

Quote
nutrino

...I don't think it is so much stupidity or evil as it is fearfulness. It finally dawned on me. These are fearful people and they are trying to control their fear through rigidly structuring their thought patterns. Healthy ? No.
Strangely effective in maintaining an organizational structure ? Yeah, sort of...

Exactly!

Fear is a great motivator. Ask any insurance salesman. (As long as you aren't frozen or paralyzed with it.) And those Landmark "prospects" on the cusp of adulthood must take a look around and see a lot to be afraid of. Also, explains why the "programming" has a particulary strong hold on anyone with a history of traumatic abuse or PTSD. Like alcohol, they offer a salve for the corrosive feelings of fear, and mostly I imagine, a fear that life will progress as problematically and as horribly as it has already with little to be happy about. Landmark culls from the slightly to moderately depressed & anxious - so-called "walking wounded" who are bread-and-butter psychotherapy clientele. Too bad a trip through LandmarkLand compounds and cements the problems many show up with. Yikes! No wonder so many are willing to take the leap into an institutionalized form of la-di-da ~possibilities~ and la-di-da ~empty&meaningless~ insanity and that the Landmark schtick plugs right into that obsessive/compulsive rearranging-the-deck-chairs-on-the-Titanic hole.


Ellen

You know, it's this kind of stuff that reminds me of what Hubbard said, "dispose of them quietly and without sorrow." Apparently Werner squirreled this bit of the tech too. I know it goes on, I've seen people 'glossed over' when they drop out, and I'm sure it happened to me when I left. One day they're this big possibility making machine getting all the wins and the next day they're just G O N E. What happens here? How can someone be so transformed and then the next day just be erased from the picture and everyone just accepts it? So much for 'the group' so much for 'either everyone gets it or nobody does.'

What happened to me, did anyone call me after I walked out? Did any one of those people I was coaching call me to find out what was going on? No. I know for a fact that these people were specifically told NOT to contact me, my LMFIA leader emailed them and I got a CC. I did have one friend who called me and thank you very much to that one friend. You really showed me not everyone in the clan is so spineless.

It just goes to show, THIS ORGANISATION HAS ZERO INTEGRITY! *I* had zero integrity when I watched those people leave and just thought, "oh well, too bad for that person, but it really doesn't matter because I'm helping people get transformed over here, that's all I care about."

Quote
Dynamix
One day they're this big possibility making machine getting all the wins and the next day they're just G O N E. What happens here? How can someone be so transformed and then the next day just be erased from the picture and everyone just accepts it? So much for 'the group' so much for 'either everyone gets it or nobody does.

High demand organizations ? It seems like this weirdness is a product of debilitating neuroses... you [b:7a7ec1f53f] must [/b:7a7ec1f53f] give me your total, unconditional love or you don't exist... sounds like many a dysfunctional, codependent relationship between a needful, controlling, manipulative "top" and a compliant, obedient, masochistic "bottom", fused in love embrace that admits no intrusions and no distractions... and anyone who dares defect, which implies rejecting this love, can only be handled by being [b:7a7ec1f53f] depersoned [/b:7a7ec1f53f] ... they can't handle the reality, they can't even handle the possibility of the reality that normal people do grow up and move on and that their packaged formulas won't satisfy the curiosity or the intellectual drive of a truly autonomous mind....

nutrino,

your last paragraph above fits the narcissism 'supply and demand' web, spot on.

Quote
elena
No wonder so many are willing to take the leap into an institutionalized form of la-di-da ~possibilities~ and la-di-da ~empty&meaningless~ insanity and that the Landmark schtick plugs right into that obsessive/compulsive rearranging-the-deck-chairs-on-the-Titanic hole.

I understood this better when I saw that Landmark wanted to suppress the author of the following quote. The addictive technique that someone "gets" is a way to escape reality (until it comes crashing in):

"With Landmark's help, you can look at a bad situation
and through a fairly simple exercise draw conclusions
about it that make you feel good. You use the power of
creative interpretation to infer positive outcomes.
Essentially you just make up your own reality by
selectively ignoring the facts in front of you. Got a
bad performance review at work? Well forget about that
and remember the time last year when your boss said
"Good work." Problem solved!
At Landmark you have hundreds of peers telling you
it's perfectly ok to think this way"

From this case Landmark filed.
[www.culteducation.com]
The email message cited is below.

--------------------------------------
Subj: A Breakthrough for everyone
Date: 8/27/01 12:02:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: landmarkblows@yahoo.com (landmark blows)
To: blah@blah.com

Or, rather, a chance for all of you to ditch your
"landmark forum racket" for a real life...

The Forum

Landmark employs a well-tested and highly refined
formula to get your money. Their methodology is
neither proprietary nor unique, and is described in
any scholarly work about cult dynamics.

The invitation
Recruitment is via invitation from a trusted friend,
so you start out with a very open mind. This is much
more effective than seeing an ad in the newspaper. In
fact, Landmark does not buy advertising -- instead they
rely on the powerful word-of-mouth advertising from
their members. Usually advertising eats into a
company's profits, but not in Landmark's case.

The speakers
Landmark's forum speakers are charismatic, that is,
they are very good at being persuasive. They appear
believable, trustworthy, caring, intelligent, and
worthy of admiration. They are well-paid, highly
trained professionals, selected for their speaking
abilities. These are the only paid employees you'll
see at a Landmark Forum.

The "volunteers"
The member-volunteers you meet, including the friend
who brought you, are sincere in their belief that
Landmark is good for you. They have been convinced
themselves, and are being strongly encouraged to
convince others. In fact, Landmark assigns them
recruitment homework, as spreading the word is an
integral part of their growth as a member. They are
encouraged to take Landmark as far as possible by
attending course after course, each costing hundreds
of dollars. At these meetings, members are trained how
to recruit.

The psychology
Landmark preys on people with low self esteem or who
are somewhat depressed or dissatisfied -- in other
words, the majority of the population. People are
looking for answers and Landmark claims to have all of
them. They begin with what I call the "christmas
present."

The Christmas Present
Imagine seeing a box under the Christmas tree. It's
very nicely wrapped, undoubtedly placed there by
someone who cares about you. It's a very large box and
has a note saying "Something very special, just for
you." You can only guess what's inside, but you know
it's got to be something very special indeed. You
can't wait to unwrap it because you know it will make
you happy.

This is how Landmark gets you interested -- by telling
you it has something you want without actually giving
you a single detail about what it is. Consider the
name, "Landmark Forum." What does it mean? Absolutely
nothing. This was also true of their previous name,
"Est," and of a related offshoot which you may have
heard of: "Dianetics."

Landmark Forum is an empty box to be filled with
treasures that only your imagination can provide. This
is a popular advertising technique. Think of that car
commercial where you get only tantalizing glimpses of
the "stunningly redesigned" product. You get no
specific details, only a vague framework upon which to
place you wildest dreams of what you want the product
to be. It makes you want it even before you really
know what it is. That's how Landmark hooks you. Their
members are told they must not reveal any information
to outsiders about what actually goes on in the
meetings because that will somehow ruin their benefit.
In truth it would just undermine Landmark's
recruitment strategy and eat into their profits.

Breaking you down
Once you're hooked into attending your first Forum,
the psychological work begins in earnest. This is were
Landmark borrows heavily from successful cult
operations -- operations that have been powerful enough
to lead people to take their own lives in the name of
the cult, like Heaven's Gate. Of course Landmark has
no interest in mass suicide -- they want hordes of live,
happy, paying customers. Remember, Landmark's sole
purpose is to collect money.

Your weekend Forum is three consecutive full days plus
an extra evening. The schedule is 9 am to midnight
each day. No food is provided. Breaks are three hours
apart, and you are told that if you take an
unscheduled break -- even for the restroom -- you will
ruin the experience and not get the benefit for which
you have paid. The idea is to create physical and
mental discomfort by exposing you to marathon
sessions. Such a schedule inhibits critical thinking
and impairs mental alertness (true adult education
professionals recommend breaks at least every 50
minutes to keep participants alert).

When you finally get home you are exhausted, it's
after midnight, and you you have a homework assignment
(usually some sort of writing). And you have to be
finished and back in session early the next morning.
There is little time for sleep. Sleep deprivation is a
common technique that cult leaders use to make
people's minds malleable and highly open to
suggestion. Prisoners of war are routinely subjected
to sleep deprivation in the hopes they will reveal
secrets to their captors.

Another borrowed technique is public humiliation.
You'll be coaxed into getting up in front of the
entire group of 150 people to spill your guts,
revealing your deepest and most embarrassing secrets.
This often reduces people to tearful sobbing, which is
amplified by the microphone. Again, if you don't do it
you're sabotaging your benefit. This activity is
designed to break whatever self esteem you have left
and leave you desperate for something to depend on.

That something is Landmark. Exhausted, feeling
worthless and helpless (but also hopeful for rescue),
a charismatic speaker tells you there is an answer,
that Landmark can give you the power to make yourself
strong again, to make you feel good again. You've
already been told that the life you've been living is
unworthy, hopeless, and born of ignorance. You've even
been convinced that your family, friends, and lovers
are also ignorant and suffering from not knowing the
benefit of Landmark. You'll believe almost anything at
this point.

They don't have to convince you to go out and kill
yourself -- there's not need to go that far. All they
have to do is convince you there's a reasonable
likelihood that Landmark, through its special
"technology" that no one else has, can fix you. And on
the final evening you'll have your poor ignorant
friends and relatives along so that Landmark can offer
to fix them too. And of course you'll need to spend
another $700 or so for your next "advanced" course.

Denying reality
The only way Landmark can keep you paying is to keep
you in the dark about the reality of what Landmark
really is. So in a very clever twist, Landmark's
mysterious technology, the one you use to make
yourself happy, is centered around denying
reality -- pretending things are something they are not.
Now here's the twist: the fantasy that Landmark helps
you construct includes Landmark membership itself as
its basis. Once you have become dependent on the
fantasy, you will go into debt, if necessary,
attending courses and giving up your time as an unpaid
"volunteer." All this because without Landmark, the
unthinkable could happen: your fantasy would collapse,
and you would feel the way you did during those first
marathon sessions.

Building the fantasy
With Landmark's help, you can look at a bad situation
and through a fairly simple exercise draw conclusions
about it that make you feel good. You use the power of
creative interpretation to infer positive outcomes.
Essentially you just make up your own reality by
selectively ignoring the facts in front of you. Got a
bad performance review at work? Well forget about that
and remember the time last year when your boss said
"Good work." Problem solved!

At Landmark you have hundreds of peers telling you
it's perfectly ok to think this way, that it's ok to
automatically assume, for example, that it's your
partner's problems, not yours, that's causing strife
in you relationship. Why face problems if you can
simply decide they don't exist?

Oh boy, isn't his tantalizing.... on September 06, 2001 Landmark Education was ready to take the scalps of John or Jane Does #1-20...

and their complaint is something pitiful to read... saying in essence, that their stuff can't withstand the criticism of of one obnoxiously accurate anonymous emailer.... contemplate that grimy paradox... in the training room, they are mighty, potent, they own the playing field, they are powerful and declaritive, their "listening" sets them apart, they are special, they don't let life's petty paltry annoyances slow them down, that's for weaklings and losers who don't get it, criticism, bwahahaha, we LAUGH at criticism, we are immune to criticism, we are beyond crtiticism...

Got it, man ?

So, ummm... what inspired David Henry Dolkas and Margaret Whyman to express, in paragraph/whine 17 or their original complaint:

"Plaintiff is informed, and believes, and on this basis alleges, that further interference by Defendants [b:3c2ec711d3] WILL [/b:3c2ec711d3] further disrupt plaitiff's business by discouraging enrollment in Plaintiff's programs and preventing or interfering with program volunteers performance of their duties [b:3c2ec711d3] for the benefit of Landmark [/b:3c2ec711d3] and its programs, among other disruptive effects...

and, get this, paragraph/whine number 21:

Plaintiff is informed and believes, and therefore alleges that Plaintiff has [b:3c2ec711d3] at all times enjoyed a good reputation.... [/b:3c2ec711d3]

Right, at all times has enjoyed a good reputation.... their founder notwithstanding, 60 minutes notwithstanding, anybody who dares disagree with them notwithstanding...

Then, tralalala.... a mere 2 months later, on November 01, 2001:

[b:3c2ec711d3] Note To Clerk: Dismiss this action as follows, B(1) Complaint, without prejudice. [/b:3c2ec711d3]

Ain't that more curious than a barrelful of monkeys ?