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13 years ago
dbvanhorn
Quotecorboy 1) You are not told, clearly in advance what will happen--making informed consent impossible. A real therapist will tell you what methods he or she uses and will not covertly change them later on. I could concede this point, but I don't think that what happens at a workshop is what you're talking about here. Quotecorboy 2) LGATs very often require subjects to sign
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
15 years ago
dbvanhorn
I'm always puzzled as to why society in general seems to hold "cheating" as somehow a bit acceptable, or at least tolerable, but ethical non-monogamy is somehow worse. Then there's that whole double-standard where the cheating guy is a "stud", and a cheating woman is a "slut". Seems to all link back to the concept that the woman is somehow the property o
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
15 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuoteDayDreamerI know... there's very little feedback at ALL about HAI. And I find that to be rather disturbing. We've spoken on this, but just putting it out there for the group: Yes, when I was looking into it, I was bugged by exactly this. Few positive reports, and just the one negative one, and I think we could all agree he is his own worst enemy. That's one reason I
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
15 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuoteS_Byers666Here are some interesting reports: For the record, that's my writing. I wanted to have a bit of control who connected that with us at the time, but at this point we're past that. I'm just getting back in sync here, you guys have been busy!
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
15 years ago
dbvanhorn
Boy, you don't check in for a while, and the thing just takes off. DayDreamer, This cultist would enjoy your company at any workshop, but is perfectly happy with you traveling your own path, wether that involves HAI or not. My wife and I are really enjoying it, learning a lot, and hope to become interns some day. Interesting comment about high drama people, but letting someone go l
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
15 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuoteCiruela I work for a software company, and I've been in "crunch mode" since about July 4. As soon as I get this release off my back, I'll be re-entering this discussion. I knoooowww that feeling.. :)
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
15 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuoteDayDreamer Interestingly enough, these responsible poly folks are NOT involved in HAI! In fact, one man in the local poly group (who has been involved with HAI also) said that he agreed with me that HAI is fostering an "irresponsible" form of polyamory. I don't remember HAI fostering any form of polyamory. I remember peter talking about his experience, which is how he and h
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
Quotediashto Okay.. and those boundaries are related to (gasp) sexual contact. Ok, it is a "love, intimacy and sexuality" workshop. Not much surprise in this. Quotediashto For me, the biggest problems are 1) You're being told what to do and when to do it 2) there always is the subtle peer pressure to continue, regardless if its past your boundaries, or if its too soon, or i
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
Quoterrmoderatordbvanhorn: These criteria have nothing whatsover to do with churches. This is a paper about LGATs. That would be large group awareness training. That is not a meaningful response to the paper. Is this what you consider dialog or discussion on a message board? The criteria given for being "dangerous" seem to apply to a lot more than just the groups in question.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
Quote The groups were determined to be dangerous when: Leaders had rigid, unbending beliefs about what participants should experience and believe, how they should behave in the group. and when they should change. Leaders had no sense of differential diagnosis and assessment skills, valued cathartic emotional breakthroughs as the ultimate therapeutic experience, and sadistically pressed to c
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
Quotediashto Now.. when people are stretched out on the floor, naked, and being instructed (and even urged) to kiss someone else's private parts.. tell me exactly which of those two it's related to? #3, getting over your fears, if any, of touching and being touched in that way. In this setting, you know that the person you're working with is not going to progress past your boun
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuoteCiruela Yes, an individual can be obsessed--and I do think that my former partner is so now with HAI. Although, to me, it's less like an "obsession" and more like an "addiction," because he seems willing to toss everyone and everything overboard if they get in the way of him feeding his "HAI habit." That's too bad. Personally I think it's a goo
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuoteLuvverly I'm still interested in examples of what happens at L2, particularly the large group exercises since it appears from Daydreamer's and other's posts that these can be overwhelming/shattering. There were people at out L1 who had huge life changing experiences. Me for one.. As you know though, we did agree not to discuss the exercises, when we took the workshop.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuoteCiruela Over the months that passed, my partner lost interest in clubs and hobbies that he had had before getting involved with HAI. It was like a drug to him, and all he wanted was to get back to another HAI event. And this wasn't some young kid, either. This was an adult man, with a great big IQ, well educated and well respected in his field. The change in him was really shocking--and
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
It was clearly stated in the materials we got, that it was clothing optional. It could be that some people don't reveal it to their partners out of fear, I almost did that, and I'm very glad I didn't. I called the organizers, talked it over with them, and they encouraged me to bring it up with her up front, which I did.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
I wasn't under any misunderstanding as to the credentials or capabilities of the interns or volunteers. That was never misrepresented.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuotekathQuotedbvanhornKath, Karenb, what happened? There was some discussion going on, then you dissapeared. Daydreamer said everything I was going to say:) It's a swinger's club, or a dating agency for those into 'alternative lifestyles.' Love Kath Absolutely not, and that's not what Daydreamer said either. At the level 1 workshop, you are specifically as
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
Kath, Karenb, what happened? There was some discussion going on, then you dissapeared.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
Quotediashto No, i'm not scared of any reprocussions on myself.. bring it on. I just dont want the parties that have shared those experiences to be given any grief because they did share some of the things that went on. Ok, I just wanted it to be clear to anyone else that nobody at HAI threatened you with anything. That does happen in other groups, and it would have been easy for what y
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
That got rather long, and I wanted to put some other observations here separately. I read in other accounts with other organizations, about being short on sleep, short on food, browbeating, and other such things going on. I've read about some where you leave your car keys with the staff. I've also read of groups where you were essentially held incommunicado. I know some groups urge
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuotediashtoHi.. first time poster, but i'll be brief as I can. You see.. she used to be extremely.. lets say.. "loose". She would sleep with anyone, thinking it was the price that she had to pay for the human contact, the afterglow, which she desired more than anything, as she was hurt very badly. Although diashto and I haven't met in person, we both know the lady
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
Quotekath But nudity does make one more vulnerable, and not just metaphorically. If you are with strangers or with anyone not your doctor/family/lovers naked, especially if you are female, you are putting yourself at risk of unwanted sexual stuff. Or does this HAI group think everyone should always be 'access all areas' to everyone else? Love Kath I posted a reply earlier, but I
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuoteTamarillicentHi all! I've been lurking for quite a while and was surprised to NOT see this on this forum. So, after 9 years of making fun of EVERYONE, he suddenly gets a case offended? Am I the only one that thinks the pressure came from the "church" and not from Isaac himself? Tam I about fell off my chair when I read that yesterday. (I've been traveling)
Forum: Celebrities associated with "cult-like" groups
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuotekarenbThe nudity is annoying. The buzzwords are annoying. The encroaching polyamory is absolutely from hell. Most people do not want to see nudity as "just that," and it's not cause they have issues, anymore than people don't want to do Landmark because they're "just not commited to living a life of possibility." Maybe you're not dropping trou in pu
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
Quotekarenb But nudity does make one more vulnerable, and not just metaphorically. If you are with strangers or with anyone not your doctor/family/lovers naked, especially if you are female, you are putting yourself at risk of unwanted sexual stuff. Or does this HAI group think everyone should always be 'access all areas' to everyone else? Love Kath I'm sorry, when I read
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuotekarenbOK, but please put your pants back on. I'm sorry, you lost me somewhere.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuotekarenbMaybe not a cult, but generates a lot of small, cultish entities using its techniques. Hyper-sexualized. Lots and lots of Landmark overlap. Incredibly annoying. Makes people think it's ok to be naked at social events. Hyper-sexualized? Well, the workshops are titled "Love, Intimacy, and Sexuality". From what we've seen so far, seems more or less equally b
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
Definitely not. This is something started by Stan Dale, back about 30 years ago.
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
16 years ago
dbvanhorn
QuoteThe fact that their next workshop is to take place in the town of Sonoma makes me suspicious. Sonoma is home to Scientology factions and a secret Gurdjieff/Ouspensky cult with no name that is headed/once headed by Anne Haas, which I am in the process of exposing. Rest assured, they have nothing to do with elron and company. My wife and I have done level 1 and level 2. I was a little
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"
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