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diashto
Okay.. and those boundaries are related to (gasp) sexual contact.
Ok, it is a "love, intimacy and sexuality" workshop. Not much surprise in this.
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diashto
For me, the biggest problems are 1) You're being told what to do and when to do it 2) there always is the subtle peer pressure to continue, regardless if its past your boundaries, or if its too soon, or if the person just plain isnt interested in touching someone else.
Being told what to do, well.. It IS a workshop. They are guiding you through an exercise. Maybe you've been everywhere and done everything, and this is all old hat and pointless to you, but it's not to us.
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diashtoQuote
Phrasing it in the manner you did, made it more of a "have you stopped beating your wife, answer yes or no" sort of question.
.. is there a "sort of" answer to that question? You're either yes, beating your wife, or no, no longer hitting them. There's no middle ground. "Oh sure, i'm not actually swinging my fists anymore, but i still throw an occasional elbow and push her into doors and stuff".
But by design, it precludes the "no, I never did" response.
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diashto
Pushing those boundaries IS a good thing - however, not in a group setting, nor with someone whom you've (presumably) only spent a limited amount of time with.
What if you have too many fears with your SO and you're too nervous to try this stuff with them first? The group actually affords some protection as well. As I said before, a loud NO would bring all the help you could need.
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diashto
I apoligize if this part seemed like a personal attack, it was not intended to be.
It did seem that way, and this isn't the place for clearing that misunderstanding.
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diashto
Well, aside from being naked precluding any hidden cameras, I wouldnt suspect that anyone thought of investigative journalism, or they werent willing to be "the source" of something like that, again for fear of reprocussions.
Journalists used to work for a living. They used to write things down, and use memory. They've also taken on some very nasty folk.
Maybe the reason there isn't much negative out there, is because there isn't much negative? Occam's razor?
I know not everyone is there for the best reasons, but even they teach you something.
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diashto
Scientology also has some 6000 churchs, with (reportedly) 8 million "worshipers". According to HAI's website, "Over 75,000 people have experienced HAI", with approximately 7 locations.
They've been quoting that number for over 12 years, and also that they are "the worlds fastest growing religion". Seems like a flat point on the curve eh? :) Look up the handling for supressive persons, and R2-45 procedures, and the "sea org". There's a very real threat there, that has been used against critics. And STILL they can't keep bad news from spreading. All it takes is ONE person to be pissed off and say something, you know that.
Hell, I got microsoft to change how they handle SCSI LUNs. In '95 they totally discarded LUN support, even though it's part of the SCSI spec. I wrote up a page on this, and pointed out that an ANSI spec isn't a chinese menu, you implement ALL of it, or it's not compliant. They called me and demanded that I pull the page, and I said fine, right after you fix the problem.. Pretty soon, problem fixed. One voice can make things known, one voice can make a change.
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diashto
Honestly, i rather liked what I heard about Level1 until the bit where the clothes came off, then i was curious, then amused, then concerned, about why they came off. Then to find out that they come off much earlier at Level2, and presumably even earlier at Level3, raised a serious red-flag to me.
It dosen't get much earlier than it was at L2, but again it's totally your choice.
I think you're looking hard to find "subtle pressure" and if you want it to be there bad enough, then you'll see it, even when what was said or done wasn't done with that intention.
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diashto
I'm not trying to be confrontational.. but i refuse to believe that there's nobody who hasnt seen the flipside of this coin.
I will point out that you've only been to an intro, and it sounds to me, like you'd already made up your mind before going.
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diashto
If you believe that everyone who goes to HAI has pure intentions and just wants to help others feel better, you're fooling yourself.
I don't believe that about hai, the boy scouts, or my church either.
People are people. But if you never open yourself up to anyone, never take that risk, then you'll lead a very lonely life. When you start to open up, you realise that there's a lot more opportunities for happiness out there than you'd ever imagined.
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diashto
People go to "make connections", "Fall in love with an angel (or three)", etc. For those people, at the very, very base level, its sort of like a square-dance swingers club with a $400 cover.
And as long as that's done honestly and up front, what's the problem?
Besides, you don't need to attend the workshop to hook up, just email to the list and ask. Nothing wrong with honestly asking for what you want, as long as the party asked can say "no" without penalty.
If swing is what you want, far less expensive and less emotional involvement, to just look up a NASCA club in your area.
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diashto
Some people don't want to give up their morals or their boundaries because it makes them who they are.
You don't HAVE to. But we do have a lot of morals that sort of came in there by default rather than concious choice, and boundaries based on groundless fears. It's nice to get rid of those, and not have them in my way. I had fear issues of other men, that was causing me problems at work. I didn't see WHY it was happening at the time, but L2 got me past that, and I am able to be a lot more effective in working to compromise now. There's a boundary of trust that I had, that was not serving me, and was getting in my way, now gone.
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diashto
And sometimes, people do discover more about themselves, even things that they didnt want to know.
Ok. sometimes the truth hurts. Been there, done that, at L1.
But I'm better for having done that, and so's my wife.
IMHO it's a good place to discover something painful. Lots of caring support, and probably someone around who has been through it too.
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In my perfect world.. HAI would be able to do the fluff-bunny frou-frou thing.. but keep their clothes on. Then they'd be much easier to swallow, at least.
Honestly, I think you've misinterpreted "come on in, the water's fine" into "subtle pressure to conform".