Quoterrmoderator Psychiatrist and author Robert Jay Lifton, who wrote "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism" defined cults as follows: "Certain psychological themes which recur in these various historical contexts also arise in the study of cults. Cults can be identified by three characteristics: 1. a charismatic leader who increasingly becomes an object of wors
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quoteinitiate ( As Dr.Phil would say, "WHAT WERE WE THINKING!!!!???????" :idea: We were thinking we were fortunate and blessed enough to have come into contact with the "Messiah" who could teach us the truth... and the truth would set us free.... :idea: We were thinking we were becoming spiritually enlightened by listening to lectures about how we were not this
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotereginaYou thought the toe-nail story hard to believe. How about this? And it is a first-hand observation, not hearsay. A kid had a pair of old socks, worn by Wai Lana. The kid felt "blessed" to have them and wear them. Is this abasment and misdirected devotion or what? The worn-out socks of the Guru's wife? SOCK IT TO THEM, WAI LANA! :D
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

There was a taped recording of a conversation between Biharilal and Siddha where Biharilal mentioned that his son wanted to study to become a laywer... guru replied, no, no, no, as the son would probably forget about Krishna, etc, etc, etc, etc... The point is that there is evidence to suggest that guru was influencing not only his followers/disciples, but also the children of said follower
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotesuziIs the strict ayruvedic diet, part of this cultish thinking in the Chris Butler group? Do they have affiliated catalogs to order certain foods? Hi Suzi, yes, these people follow a strict "ayurvedic diet" - namely, no meat, fish, eggs, and they stay away from onions, garlic, mushrooms. There are no affiliated catalogs that i know off for ordering foods. Note: most of t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotekali...... Let us suppose that the kind of abuse that was inflicted was of an emotional and mental variety. There has not been suspicion of any physical abuse. .... Yes, this seems to be correct, no physical abuse reported so far but probably abuse of an emotional and mental variety - not only on children but also on adults.... Below are listed some of the problems connected to this
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quoteinitiate ... I wish more people would come out and add to these posts. We are like the little boy in the story, "The Emperor's New Clothes" who gets ostracised for pointing out that the Emperor is naked. YES! Good analogy. Most people know this story of how the people were too scared to criticize the "invisible clothes" of the emperor. In this case,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Regarding the debate on underage children being indoctrinated by the group, Barbara and others certainly have a reason to be concerned about this. It is quite conceivable that this is going on, considering the fanatacism of some of these people... When I was involved with the group in the 1970s it was mostly young people for sure who were attracted to the scene, but usually people in their 20
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

SAI SPEAKS WITH FORKED TONGUE! Sai says "One should chant the Holy Name of the Lord in a HUMBLE state of mind, feeling onself to be lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than the tree, devoid of all sense of FALSE PRESTIGE, and ready to OFFER ALL RESPECTS TO OTHERS" WHEREAS: Sai is not in a humble state of mind, feels higher than the King of the Whole Wor
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteyoursisterWhen something reeks of $$$$$$$, deceptions, politics and condemnation there is no reflection of spiritual truth. Likewise, when a group or system infringes on your free-will it points to enslavement and spiritual vampirism. .......... Who thinks "god" wants his boot licked? Sounds more like Nazi protocol to me. :wink:
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Thanks, DD, for the info on Siddha's adventures in California (with the Queen Bee, hilarious!)... yea, sounds like a real humble kind of fellah!
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotesuziDealing with an x-chris butler devotee. Any advice? Dear Suzi: There is a long active thread entitled "Krishna Group in Hawaii" under the "Cult, Sects and New Age Religious movements" section of the forum lists. Please note that Chris Butler goes by many names, such as Siddha, Siddhaswarpananda, Jagat Guru, Jagad Guru, Sai. He teaches a religion of chant
Forum: Former Cult Members and Affected Families

MEGALOMANIA - unreasonable conviction of one's own extreme greatness, goodness, or power.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Jesus said: "In my Father's kingdom there are many mansions." Unfortunately, most of them are owned by Chris Butler! :lol:
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

From what I could glean over the internet, Tusta went to Poland to defend their religion in some sort of court case... Apparently they got off any charges. However, it appears as there was some fanatical Catholic element in Poland who were harrassing the devotees over there and there was some violence. They were tearing down their posters, stoning their homes (not sure if fire bombs were used)
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotegulagWhat with all the enterprise, business and money-making going on here how does it jive with non-material life and where does all the money go? Do they run programs for the poor or homeless or a hospice for aids sufferers? Ha, no chance! I think Siddha's philosophy is that if you are poor it is due to your own bad karma. :( It seems to be that all the money goes to pay fo
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quoteinitiate The lifestyle was fatiguing, stressful and alienating. Many families were very poor or on welfare. This is so true... gone were the carefree days of playing drums in the jungles of Kauai and Maui with a chorus of rare bird-song and surrounded by beautiful trees! THE WAREHOUSE was now our reality! The "warehouse" was a large concrete building with no daylight and
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Barbara! Yes, Kathy Hoshijo is the same as Takahani or Katyayani. I just checked her out on the website link in one of "initiate's" posts. She is of Japanese descent and has a very beautiful face, but alas, Mother of God!, her body looks like it is wasting away!!! From the latest pics on this website, her arms, neck and shoulders look extremely thin with no flesh on them!
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I am not much of a political man, but maybe guru is pro Iraq war so that America can get the crude, to make the gasoline, to drive the tractor, to grow the soybean, to make the tofu, to propel aircraft to transport the tofu from Idaho to Honolulu, to propel the motor vehicle to transport said tofu to guru's mansion, so guru can eat tofu (all in Krishna's service, of course)... so muc
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi all once again, more thoughts on the latest postings: Glad to hear that the sweet cook got a better life! Maybe she was too sensitive to be serving such a harsh and bad tempered master... I can believe that Siddha only dealt with the money makers, politicians, etc., as that was the way things were swinging in the 1980s as well... Incarnation of God's Mother in the spiritual world
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quoteinitiate How does any one know if they are still Siddha followers? ... If Siddha ordered her to go off to war, then it's his own hipocracy. If she allowed herself to go off to war on his orders for political motivations, which I doubt, then she is an idiot. I'm pretty sure Mike and his family are very much Siddha's followers and taking instructions from him. I di
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Chris Butler's followers were very active in Sacramento a long time ago, and as far as I know they probably still are. They follow the meditation process of chanting the Names of God. See other thread for more info (Krishna Group in Hawaii).
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Quotemaui Offensive thought or speech or action against an authentic guru gives the worst kind of bad karma. So followers develop a concsious and unconcious fear of being offensive in their minds, what to speak of speaking or acting in a way that their guru or god will perceive as offensive. The future of your life depends on not offending a guru. Yes, Maui, this is exactly what was happeni
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuotedevadasiI feel terrible for her and to think she most likely thinks that her military stint is service to Krishna. That is really heart-breaking. Kind of like "Kill a Commie for Krishna"??????
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

More reflections on the post-Siddha experience: WAI LANI: Yes, this is none other than Vaisnava dasi. It seems as though the nasty bump on the head did not slow her down after seeing her dancing around on the "Horses" video! THE COOK: Yes, she was a devout and religious girl. She was very, very skinny - no doubt was feeling guilty about eating when she should be cooking for t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Deva Dasi and Initiate and all! great posts! Yes, I ALSO remember the accident to Vaisnava dasi's head and the ridiculous accusations that I had done something wrong to cause that!!! Siddha was also complaining at that time that he was living in a 1200 square foot house and it was not good enough for him. And then there was a "heart attack" incident experienced by Vai
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Devidasi, Regarding your question of homophobia, my impression is that it was a great target for criticism in order to boost his political agenda, as most of the Christians were also against the laws that favored homosexuals, and thus more potential votes. Maybe you saw the info about the recent political campaign in Honolulu with Mike Gabbard running for office. I can gather that there
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yes, I was there on Kauai also in those days - and I also remember these days as being the greatest time of my life - However, there is a part of me now that regrets the many, many, many years of spiritual practices while neglecting the material side of life... neglecting career, investing, etc. to the point where 30 odd years later one wishes one had worked for oneself instead of for Krishna..
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Initiate: It sounds as you were around in the very early days when Chris was known as just "Siddha"... It seems odd that a person would want to conceal his whereabouts from his own father, (pure devotee or not)... Seems like the paranoid mentality was there from the early days also but maybe got worse as time went on. I think what might be going on is an element of drawing a pa
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Hi Initiate: I remember listening to a lecture by Chris Butler about how he had visited his father in Honolulu - I forget the gist of the whole lecture but I seem to remember the impression was that his father was quite disappointed after the meeting. I think this was in the early 1980s. (I think the gist was something like "God is our real father and that Mr. Butler Senior was only th
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"