And I find your use of words very interesting. I might have or might not have gotten anything from the IST mess, but that doesn't take away the hypnosis of it. Like cannabis is still a drug even if you are happy it makes you sleep better. Or unhappy it makes you itch. overlandtraveler Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I didn't experience
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

This is from Wikipedias article on hypnosis and it's short. But from reading explanations like these on what hypnosis is, I think if I was an obsessed narcissist who wanted a doting audience I could feel loved by and make vulnerable to suggestions, I would want to add hypnosis to my bag of tools. "Hypnosis is a human condition involving focused attention (the selective attention/s
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

To the world regression therapies, like IST techniques, is considered a type of hypnosis. I've tried both and I have to agree. overlandtraveler Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I always wondered what his real history was too, > and why he chise to hide and what he was hiding > from. The thing is lots of people on the "outside" &
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

For what it's worths I often wondered what SS ran from. And why he didn't want the school to grow big or became fanours even though he really seemd to crave attention and control. used hypnosis a lot and had the highest possible opinion of himself. It made no sense. People claimed he was french-algerian and that his name was too hard to pronouce and that's why he changed it. But wh
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

This bit I meant: "I checked with mesche and it's not the same person they knew who killed themselves... so there are at least 2 Clairvision students we know of so far who ended up committing suicide, apparently even more who attempted but did not succeed. " So much was never private in CV, including private conversations on email. That's why I don't share most pers
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

There was a lot of gossip and drama and loss of normal boundaries around sex and relationships. Plus a lot of misunderstandings and different ways of dealing with any kind of interactions and attraction or judgment and boundaries due to cultural differences. Mixed with the intensity of the exercises and people there it could get ugly. In one intensive students could find themselves suddenly d
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

I recommend other survivors of the school to seek out groups that are not specifically for former members of the school. And to not tell anyone who has been in the school about it. It can be very healing.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

And it makes it so hard to leave. I still feel like I have withdrawal syndrome from time to time. grok Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > "Cult leaders understand the power of charisma, > the attractiveness of transcendental ideology, and > what it takes to make vulnerable people feel like > every question is answerable with jargon, &
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

I've had to take a hard look at my own involvement in the school as well. There was abuse I didn't have the courage to adress or report. A woman was knocked out and I didn't call the police because I was gaslighted so hard I couldn't think but honestly also because I was so scared of being kicked out. Was I abusive myself? Why did I believe it when others told all there was ev
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

I'm sorry that happened. I can't believe how normalized behavior like that becomes in so many religious and spiritual schools. Did you tell anyone at the school about it? How did they react? How are you doing now? LB_Slayer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I got almost raped at clairvision. I was touched > physically without my permission
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Stupid petty revenge is part of some peoples way of dealing with criticism. I get why not all members posting about the school responds to questions about what they write here.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The motel was only partially built when purchased by the school and yes labor on new motel rooms was free and done by the students. The pay was some form of teaching. There was a lot of stories about bullying, stalking, sexual predators, hard physical labor, damages. And a lot of covering it up.
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

To most of you in here it might not be a surprice. Colors, sounds, shapes, feelings, silence, agitation, energetic movements, feeling expanded, warm, cold, feeling traumas emerging, grief, joy, feeling a benevolent presence and so on. Even experiencing nothing at all. There is nothing unusual about any of it but I didn't know that until I met students of other schools of meditation.
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

There's a lot of information to look for out there. I have very bad experiences with providing scientific explanations to students of the school and won't do that again. Seeing is believing, right? I suggest you search for scientific articles about whatever type of experience you would like to know more about. I have for instance looked into research on how cults and cult leaders ma
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

I mean experiences had while doing the work can be explained scientifically. I don't know if there are ever any metaphysical experiences even though I thought they were at the time. grok Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > mesche, > > Do you mean the metaphysical aspects of what the > Clairvision work claims to bring can be explained &g
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Threw out all the techniques I meant. mesche Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > But the someting is actually not what it > seems to be. Most of what I experienced, the good > and the bad, can be explained very well with > science. I threw the whole thing out years ago. > > > metanoia Wrote: > --------------------------------
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

But the someting is actually not what it seems to be. Most of what I experienced, the good and the bad, can be explained very well with science. I threw the whole thing out years ago. metanoia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think it is so, so complicated, confusing, and > hard to be discerning when there is also something > of substance being
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

oneclickwonder Wrote: > > I hope you're well and fully recovered after these > incidents. I'm not and I might never. Luckily there were witnesses not in the school to some of the things I experienced because at one point I started doubting my own sanity. One of those people raised very logical and concerned questions and was met with both anger and petty revenge. I was q
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

That is unfortunately the norm I think. That could have been me saying that ten years ago perhaps. ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes, I find it's been hard for me to find the > right support as well - I had a therapist tell me > that now I can be more discerning after going > through this experience and other condescending > remarks that
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

grok Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I really relate to this... it does somehow feel > like a betrayal, and even some licensed > psychologists don't really understand cult > dynamics much less friends from the past. People > can definitely judge and think you should just be > able to get over it or not understand the level of > tr
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

oneclickwonder Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ok, SO awesome that this thread has lit up again. > > I want to share a bit more about my experience and > speak to what has been shared here as well. > > I found that, as said in my previous post, I dealt > with abuse or things that made me feel > uncomfortable in the school, includ
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

metanoia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > mesche Wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > About the apocalyptic flavor. Many of the > students > > I met trained for the future and the big > > technological changes that are happening right > now > > in our world as discussed in the books
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

mesche Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > metanoia Wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Grok, Mesche, these details are incredibly > helpful > > to hear--feeling much better about my decision > to > > not get involved. A few follow-up questions, if > > you're willing to answer them: &g
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

> Quotemesche > Some became suicidal when i was in the school. > Getting a depression was something to expect I was > told by some older students if you did the work > long enough and aspired for Elightenment. Because > no one became enlightened in the school. Only > Samuel according to him and only he would be able > to see. No one had this big moment of connecting
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

metanoia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Grok, Mesche, these details are incredibly helpful > to hear--feeling much better about my decision to > not get involved. A few follow-up questions, if > you're willing to answer them: About the apocalyptic flavor. Many of the students I met trained for the future and the big technological changes
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Some became suicidal when i was in the school. Getting a depression was something to expect I was told by some older students if you did the work long enough and aspired for Elightenment. Because no one became enlightened in the school. Only Samuel according to him and only he would be able to see. No one had this big moment of connecting with their body of immortality and being able to tap from
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

Talking about it is really hard. Breaking the silence feels like betrayal even though I know with my mind that it is okay. Even with trained psychologists I have a hard time being totally open about everything that happened. Some judge if they don't know how cults and related groups work. Also I miss the school sometimes and people most often doesn't get how I can do that. But that is h
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse

There can be a lot of abusive behavior in religious relationships and I have met a lot of women, and some men, who were told they were weak for being victims of any type of violence. And that being what was labeled as weak was also their own fault. I think Lundy Bancroft offers some new perspective and ways of making change happen in a healthy way. I'm still reading and slowly understand
Forum: Abusive and Controlling Relationships

OCPD too. I have met many who had Obsessive Compusive Personality Disorder.
Forum: Recovery from Destructive Cults and Groups

Years ago I was in this school of meditation and there were good and bad times. The good: I learned to meditate and work on some of my personal problems. The bad: I walked away with new and painful personal problems. I experienced: Kindness Warmth Purpose Relaxation Open-mindedness Protection Insight I met people I would otherwise never meet But also Arrogance Abuse
Forum: Clergy and Therapy Abuse