Its true that Milton Erickson used something like a Yes-Set method to gain rapport with his patients. The difference is that he was a licensed MD, doing hypnotherapy to help people, for a modest cost. So it was totally appropriate. Then what happened is the NLP guys, and others, studied Erickson, and wrote it up, and took it apart. Yes-Set Agreement Frame (NLP) They took a therapy tool,
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Continuing Education Module--Two Articles There are times when making a single commitment is innocuous or even part of a genuinely beneficial experience. Or that first commitment, seemingly simple, is a first step into what later becomes a degrading, expensive and enslaving, betrayal ridden mess. How do we tell the difference? It may be that seemingly minor first commitment is harmles
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

recently read some info about what are called "Nested Loops", which are used in this type of hypnosis that was coined by Richard Bandler and relates to the hypnotherapy of Milton Erickson. Byron Katie uses these techniques as well. These are basically stories within stories, sometimes 5 stories at once, that can set up a symbol/metaphor system, and in the confusion they create, serv
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Its invariable that whenever Google alerts cue members of a group, they come and start their PR. The same thing has happened on other websites where criticism of OneTaste was posted, so at some point they will probably come and post here too. The bottom line is that Nicole Daedone has no training or credentials to be fooling around with live-in sex groups, therapy, experimental communities, M
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

one other major difference between real CBT and Byron Katie, is how to deal with things in life we don't like, or even despise. Byron Katie tries to tell people its all just reality, and goes as far as to say even horrible things are wonderful. That is how she gets to the point of saying Nazi war criminals burning babies alive are doing The Work of Byron Katies "God". (that should
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Some excellent points. As mentioned before, the Byron Katie "head-cock" or her tilting of her head at times, is not just a random thing, believe it or not. Sure, it may have evolved organically, but its a technique too. In hypnosis, they establish "signals" and triggers and anchors. It may be a hand gesture, or a look, or a head-tilt, Voice-Cue, anything. You see, over t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

also, it would be wonderful if only using gentle and loving language was enough to deal with this material. Sadly it isn't. So its great to use gentle and loving language when possible. On the other hand, it does appear that using blunt, realistic and harsh language at times is the best way to cut through the mountain of horseshit. Otherwise, one can get lost in the mountain of horses
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

This poster is either not being honest, or is perhaps dangerously naive. (notice how they took the one word "make" and ignored the words about "Influence", to distract. On the most banal level, salespeople have dozens of techniques to Influence your beliefs to buy their products. Dozens of books on that subject. Advanced Salespeople are much better, and literally do as
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

as far as I know he didn't write any books, per se. He wrote a ton of academic papers, which are contained in various places, mostly in a series of books by Ernest Rossi. Try this book, its very accessible. My Voice Will Go With You (The Teaching Tales of Milton H.Erickscon) by Sidney Rosen. or.. TRANCE-formations by Richard Bandler and John Grinder. Try a general word search at
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I don't know where that story originates from, it's not referenced in my literature here. If anyone here has heard that story being used elsewhere or knows its origin, I'd like to hear from you. It seems like it might be a Hindu or Buddhist story that was used to teach disicples. The possibility of transference is there, isn't it? ... promoting dependency on the Guru. That
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Didn't Paramahansa Yogananda use that story? The "story" thing is very interesting. Milton Erickson used ideas from mythology, and tribal myths, parables, etc. He ws then able to refine the language, and put them in a modern context, and get a similar result. So the use of Teaching Stories and parables is ancient. But then they modernized it into almost Dick & Jane stor
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Shakti, you do make good points. But I am not lumping all those guys together other than their names, I don't know anything about Stuart Resnick other than the few posts here, and I have not said he is drinking Katie Kool-Aid....yet. I do agree using the terms "Katie supporter" is not the correct term, and retract it. I like the phrase mentioned though..."running interferen
Forum: Large Group Awareness Training, "Human Potential"

Quotequestion ladyFascinating analysis Anticult. What books or other sources do you recommend for learning more about these types of techniques? I would imagine that if you can spot them, you are less likely to be taken in by them. This falls into the area of Ericksonian Hypnosis, and the use of hypnotic metaphor, and what are called Teaching Tales.They are stories, which sound like a normal s
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I see more patterns in the Byron Katie cancer tumor story above. One of the main ones, is Byron Katie says over and over and over, about her DEATHBED VISITS. Obviously she does these. The questions being asked are people signing over their entire Estates as "donations" to Byron Katie on their deathbed? That might sound like its unbelievable, but from the other reports about people h
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Tjena/ Chris: Its nice to see someone who has obviously studied some of the hypnosis material, in regards to being Artfully Vague, etc. Byron Katie does her own very powerful variant of Ericksonian Hypnosis, but literally using it against people in a highly destructive way to suit her own purposes. Much of it is explained in this other thread. She even does the Handshake Induction on peop
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Some people who would read these threads would DOUBT that the power of so-called "Ericksonian Hypnosis" can make you do things, without you even being aware of it. How could just reading and hearing "metaphorical stories" while in a suggestible state make changes? Well, due to this thread, many of my old books on this subject from the archive have been pulled and reviewe
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

I'm not attacking Guruphiliac personally...I think its terrific he criticizes all of these Sri Sri Rama-lama Ding-Dong fraud Gurus. That's good. And its good he criticizes Eckhart Tolle, as the media has given Eckhart Tolle a free pass. But Byron Katie actually appears to be far worse than Eckhart Tolle, in terms of her methods and organization. Why is he so harsh on Tolle and so
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

If anything good can come out of this Byron Katie waking hypnosis nightmare, its that the tools she is abusing were originally created to help people. The methods can be used for people to help themselves, and not just get lured into some weird culty group, and hand over their wedding rings, money, and everything else to some dangerous unlicensed psychotherapeutic crackpot like Byron Katie. A
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Yes, the handshake induction is one that is famous in Ericksonian hypnosis and NLP circles. Byron Katie does many of these techniques, its very obvious to those who have some training in this area. This is why Katie targets those she does, who have never heard of it. For example, Byron Katie does another technique from Milton Erickson, where she "tilts her head" when she says certa
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

From the Wikipedia article as mentioned by Anticult: "Any habitual pattern which is interrupted unexpectedly will cause sudden and light trance. "The handshake is a particularly good pattern to interrupt because the formality of a handshake is a widely understood set of social rules. "Since everyone knows that it would be impolite to comment on the quality of a handshake
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Holy mackerel, that is a Byron Katie variation on the Milton Erickson Handshake Induction!! (which was made popular in NLP). aka: the Hypnotic Handshake, Ericksonian Handshake, and NLP Pattern Interrupt, etc. Lots of information out there. That is a way to do instant hypnosis on someone, and then implant suggestions into their minds rapidly. There are a lot of (profoundly unethical) connect
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

The complexity and subtlety of this is why people need to do some serious study of these Advanced forms of Persuasion that are being used these days. It all started when the NLP guys studied Milton Erickson, and wrote all those books, and it went from there. Now they have fused it with Social Influence, Social Engineering, and advanced Sales techniques, and many other things. Byron Katie seems t
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

whenever you hear someone like Katie constantly telling little weird "Stories", that is generally this brand of hypnotic symbolic persuasion. For those who have been exposed to the technical literature, it just LEAPS out instantly. Its totally blatant. No different than for someone who knows a little about music, Mozart and Bach can be distinguished in a few seconds, but for a non-m
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

Byron Katie has literally taken wonderful symbolic techniques from advanced hypnotherapy, and reversed them, literally using them AGAINST the subject (YOU). For a person to do that knowingly, they would have to be a sociopath or worse, or just a utter uneducated ignoramous, which Byron Katie isn't. She is highly skilled in these arts. The most serious problem with Katie is she is insertin
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

· Here are some rough notes about the Byron Katie 5 CD set “A Thousand Names For Joy”. Its important to begin the process of analysis, which is ongoing. · This is not just a typical CD of strange stories and comments by some lady who sounds kinda “weird”. Not even close. This is some very dangerous material, for certain people with certain vulnerabilities. Some people would just switch it o
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

not only that, Lysette Offley's own bio TEXT is her first attempt to put you into Trance using a Cue. (Trance is focussed Attention) "the soothing voice you hear"...that is a hypnotic command... and its an Induction...its a basic one...like... "as you hear the sound of my voice you may find yourself going on a journey into yourself...that's right...yeah...soot
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

ok, I feel waaaaaaay better now...recovered from the Byron Katie hypnotic mental abuse.. Listened to another Bandler audio in the background called..."Welcome To Planet Earth"... (Reality). you see, Bandler got it right from Milton Erickson. Its about trusting your OWN Unconscious, about aligning your own Mind and Unconscious...the Mind is wonderful and natural, of course..and Le
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

QuoteThe Anticultjj, I am going to be really blunt here...those are extremely fucking dangerous people. I am not making this stuff up. They want to hammer people's minds down to nothing, rip it apart, Dis-Assemble your Identity, and reform it focussed on Byron Katie for her own vanity and self-interest. Meanwhile acting all sweet and holy, and saying the exact opposite. Its sicko stuff, a
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

just for some perspective...someone I know promoted/booked lots of Richard Bandler seminars over the years, and I've heard most of his material. For example, his Neurosonics Inductions, and all his books, HDE, etc. Bandler is a questionable character, questionable ethics. BUT, his material is actually about 1000x more empowering than the Byron Katie stuff. 10,000x. For example Neuroso
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"

by the way, I am not saying "hypnosis" is bad, not at all. Self-Hypnosis and Hypnotherapy can really help people...IF it is done by a licensed professional, with FULL DISCLOSURE. Milton Erickson helped a lot of people. But all of this Katie stuff is open, flagrant abuse. One wonders if licensed hypnotherapists could investigate it? and also remember, its not just the covert hyp
Forum: "Cults," Sects, and "New Religious Movements"