Prasadam Das:

Offering a link to an ISKCON devotee site does not answer the questions.

I asked you some very simple questions, which you still have not answered.

But thanks for the acknowledgement that two gurus are still around from the era of "corruption" and "fanaticism."

Oh excuse me, one is "semi retired" for "physical health problems."

I am sure Cardinal Bernard Law would have preferred such arrangements for his early "retirement" amidst the ongoing scandal in the Catholic Church.

You say that Nori Muster "describes the situation pretty well."

Here is what Nori described:

"If [ISKCON] now really wants to change for the better, it should remove all illegitimate gurus, Governing Body Commission (GBC) board members, temple presidents, sannyasis (priests), and zone managers. There are at least 20-30 illegitimate leaders that still remain firmly in place within its hierarchy."

How many of these folks are still around from the "bad old days"?

You failed to answer very simple questions, which a 30-year member of ISKCON should have no trouble responding to.

Don't you know how the organization is actually run and what its bylaws are regarding meaningful accountability and financial transparency?

Why did you make claims about "checks and balances" if you cannot support your statements with substance?

After all, you posted and initiated an exchange on this Open Forum.

Your claims were at best hollow or at worst deliberately misleading, without any objective proof to support them.

You have totally ignored questions about ISKCON's continuing legal fight regarding airport solicitations and settlements for child abuse, which would of course be a meaningful showing of proof that ISKCON really has changed.

You say the Catholic "churches handling of things could have been a lot better."

The Catholic Church has paid out more than $500 million dollars in settlements, what has ISKCON paid?

FYI-- No one is both "Catholic and also a Hare Krishna devotee."

Actually there are quite a few devotees who actively attend Catholic churches. Several devotees in California are even Catholic monks.

A fellow I know in the UK who was one of the top book distributors in the UK is an ordained Spiritualist minister in the Spiritualist National Union and works full time as a medium. I have had several sessions with him and he accurately described my deceased brother without knowing anything about me. NO questions or cold reading just pure information from the spirit world.

A young lady in Christchurch I know also attends a born again Christian type church as she likes the energy and the devotion.

Satsvarupa is the guru who has health problems. He is a really sweet man maybe you should ask him about his condition before you imply that he was trying to escape his situation. He is very humble and his books are very very insightful.

I don't see what the big deal is about distributing books in the LA airport. When I was there last October I actually spent a few days helping out. On average people are really cheerful when they meet us. As long as it is done honestly and nobody is conducting any scams I really don't see the problem. The LA devotees who do it all the time are pretty upfront about who they are and what they are doing. A lot of other groups also solicit at LAX.

From what I understand the child abuse lawsuit is going to result in a settlement and the details are being worked out.

Anyway, write an indepth article that will reach a larger audience. I would be happy to help you with it if you want. It seems that even though you are an expert on cults and alternative religious movements that you don't know much in detail about our philosophy or movement. When we are informed we can make intelligent judgements. I would love to see your views on Chakra as you would find that a lot of devotees would support you. Also, I would love to have you meet and spend time with devotees. I think that your views might be altered a bit as I know that you are very open minded and desire to progress on a personal level.

As my Jewish Grandmother, a holocast survivor used to say: "Without God our compassion is lost" I have found her words comforting and the truth. Her influence was a major factor in leading me to my spiritual master and joining up 34 years ago. I am sure that if she were still here physically that she would be very much involved in teaching the young and helping others know themselves and GOD. Om Shalom!

Prasadam Das:

You have not supported your claims about "checks and balances" regarding meaningful accountability within ISKCON. Nor have you answered other simple questions asked about ISKCON's leadership.

You have offered no objective proof, which easily could have been done by simply citing the bylaws and constitutional provisions at ISKCON that mandate such accountability.

You have likewise skirted the issue of actual financial transparency by offering no proof whatsoever.

You also have not responded to Nori Muster's points, such as her suggested changover of leaders from the "bad old days."

Apparently, despite your previous remarks about Nori Muster, you really don't agree with her concerns or support her conclusions.

These are not theological or philosophical questions. They are instead factual questions about the structure, government and accoutability of leaders at ISKCON.

As a 30-year member you should be able to easily answer such questions.

However, as anyone reading our exchange can readily see, you have chosen not to, attempting to change the subject and/or obfuscate by making unsupported claims.

Your statement about airport solicitations, underlines the point made by Ms. Muster, nothing much has really changed at ISKCON.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Court rulings directly contradict your view of the solicitation issue at LAX.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Regarding any settlement of child abuse claims against ISKCON, nothing has been announced. But when a news report is released about a settlement that article will be archived under ISKCON at the Ross Institute database.

See [www.culteducation.com]

People cannot be two religions simultaneously, and it is doubtful that any "Catholic monks" are actually ISKCON devotees. If such people exist it is certainly without the knowledge of Catholic officials.

If you know of ISKCON devotees that are posing as religious adherents of another faith, you should encourage them to declare themselves honestly and move on.

The way that you have handled questions on this board has been instructive. At best you have been evasive.

Again, this would appear to support Ms. Muster's conclusions that not much has changed at ISKCON.

Unsupported claims do not denote meaningful change, but rather what seems like an effort at PR spin.

Hello again,

It's been a few months since I've been back here to check on the thread I started.

I think it's interesting that my original post - which is directed to those who are trying to heal / to leave ISKCON - has only attracted responses from keen devotees who had absolutely nothing to say to me and were only here to preach.

I've re-read my original posts and I've read the discussion between Rick Ross, Corboy and the two devotees who wrote in and I don't have a lot to add.

Except this:

I really really hope that someday the person(s) I am trying to reach out to here come(s) along. Perhaps they already have come by amongst the hundreds who read these posts without commenting.

If you are a woman who is in ISKCON, please consider this: ISKCON does not consider you to be equal to men. If you are in ISKCON, then you tacitly accept that. That is very very dangerous to your self-esteem. Get out and get on with your life on your own terms. You can do it.

I know you can.

I am a male devotee and I consider you my equal. I know a lot of females who are superior to me in terms of spiritual realization as well as materially. My wife is an amazing person and is much better educated and smarter than me. In terms of our relationship we really help each other out and while I might play the role of the guru in the relationship the reality of the situation is that she is very much my teacher and my best friend. Some of the most advanced devotees I know are in female bodies as spiritual development does not depend upon your gender.

I don't buy it. In this forum I have talked about my very personal experiences. I will not go into detail about the experiences of all the people I knew while I was in ISKCON out of respect for their stories but I knew a lot of people, a lot of women, and I know a lot of (very recent) horror stories from many different temples in different countries from Canada, the US, Trinidad, India and elsewhere. It's the same story everywhere.

Sex is demonized, women are objectified and demonized.

I guess there is a slacker element in the organization who reads the philosophy, preaches it and then turns around and has loving, orgasmic sex without feeling guilt or making their partner feel guilt but if you're one of those then you are the gentlest kind of hypocrite going and that's sweet and all but frankly, why not just leave the dogma behind in that case?

Ok, I'm going away from this forum for another few months I think - I am not meeting anyone here who is trying to leave / has left the organization and I'm starting to repeat myself.

So knock yourself out Mr. Kind-and-Generous-to-Women - you can have the last word as far as I'm concerned.

My wife and I don't feel the need to engage in sex, but then again we are physically older than you and such desires are not as strong as one physically ages. I know that when we did have sex I always tried my hardest to give her pleasure as I felt that it was duty as her lover and husband.

Repression of sexuality does not work and it has been my experience that many people end up going to an extreme with it. Fanaticism is immature and leads to the situations that you have described. I have found that through my own spiritual practice that my desires for such pleasure has been replaced with higher pleasure found through my quest for higher consciousness. Anyone who is really spiritual is going to love thy neighbor as thyself and anyone who claims to be a devotee who is abusive really is not in touch with themselves or God. Anyone I know who actually lives the philosophy(And I know hundreds of Devotees none of whom are fanatic) is not fanatical and is loving in their relationships. I would not call myself slack either I am actually very hardcore but I try my best to be loving and kind to everyone>


My wife is a social worker and family therapist and does a lot in our city to help familes with situations involviing abuse. The Maori community in New Zealand has a lot of problems involving spousal abuse which she is very involved in helping. She is part Maori so she understands the situation pretty well. I also work part time with massage and spiritual healing to help people. Of the 60 or so devotees who live at the Auckland farm I really don't know any who are abusive to women or fanatical. Husbands and wives have their disagreements but as a whole things are really functional. The ladies even have a female healing and support group for woman's issues. I also take part in a mens group which many men from our large Indian congregation participate in. All the best to you with lots of Love and encouragement in your path to wholeness.

The mens movement is an international movement dedicated to helping men with male issues. I strongly believe that any internal healing or recovery is greatly assisted by involvement in such a support group. And no it is not like a self help cult, but addresses gender roles and negative conditioning that many times results in men being unable to express their emotions. Abuse of women and aggressiveness is part of normal behavior for many males> I have seen this in and outside of Iskcon. It is a social problem that needs to be cured. There are a number of good web sites with resources on the subject for anyone interested for themselves or the males in their life.

Prasadam Das is a 30-year ISKCON/Krishna devotee.

Whatever advice or help he might offer should be suspect and understood in that context.

ISKCON has long been considered a destructive cult. And despite whatever apologies are offered by its supporters such as Prasadam Das it hasn't changed significantly in the areas of meaningful accountability for its leaders or financial transparency concerning its finances.

Don't be taken in by the smooth talk of a Krishna apologist.

I would not recommend taking any advice or resource referrals from Prasadam Das.

ISKCON is embroiled in a class action lawsuit regarding sexual abuse. Advice on sexual matters from Krishna devotees is very questionable to say the least.

I would not recommend a therapist involved in this movement under any circumstances to anyone.

Prasadam Das is an ISKCON apologist.

If you look back on this thread it is obvious that his purpose on this board is to apologize for the organization.

But when it comes to hard facts he hits a dead end.

Note earlier on this thread how he could not, or would not, provide meaningful facts detailing how ISKCON has changed.

Prasadam Das puropose is not to really help anyone other than ISKCON. He posts here to confuse issues, obfuscate and generally muddle the thread as best he can.

See [www.culteducation.com]

In the above article a former member of ISKCON said, "For a long time, ISKCON has had leaders who beat their wives and advocate wife-beating among the other married men. Also, ISKCON arranged marriages between minor-aged girls and often abusive men. The girls’ complaints were generally ignored."