@backnforth: Evil not Evil, who really knows, I completely agree:

Devadatta Chapter 12 of the Lotus Sutra:

The Buddha said to his monks: "The king at that time was I myself, and this seer was the man who is now Devadatta. All because Devadatta was a good friend to me, I was able to become fully endowed with this six paramitas, pity, compassion, joy, and indifference, with the thirty-two features, the eighty characteristics, the purple-tinged golden color, the ten powers, the four kinds of fearlessness, the four methods of winning people, the eighteen unshared properties, and the transcendental powers and the power of the way. The fact that I have attained impartial and correct enlightenment and can save living beings on a broad scale is all due to Devadatta who was a good friend."


In the spirit of what backnforth says about the SGi and the priesthood debacle, it made me think about the Buddha who was, attempted to be killed and all sorts of mischief by Devadatta, but in his ultimate wisdom he called Devadatta a "good friend" , and th Buddha actually said it was because of Devadatta that the Buddha was able to attain enlightenment. I think it is great that we realized the deviations of correct faith of the SGI and as backnforth said particularly the "MDM", but we have to be careful , because we do not know how things are supposed to enfold. For me standing up and speaking out has been a big challenge, I have had to study more than ever,at the same time as trying not to be filled with negativity,but instead compassion,a lesson that is the essence of Buddhism, so in some small the way the SGI is actually my"good friend".

@sgIwonder, You wrote, "Even in my days of of being super-gung-ho I did my share of eye-rolling. But I wonder if you cut yourself off from the organization how you sustain yourself and where do you get your encouragement? Don't you find constantly being upset by things draining? Someone mentioned they get it here, but this is a poor substitute for in-person human warmth (fellowship as they say in some churches). I stayed away a long time, but still missed the group. I could not find any other good substitute in all the things I tried." I was the one who referred to this forum as my new sangha and I was not even being sarcastic or facetious. I know that it is not the same as meeting with a group and chanting or praying but after 21 years of the other experience this quite liberating. Posters like Mark Nichijew keep me on my toes about doctrinal issues and the varying range of comments and experiences keep me intrigued, learning, and laughing. Some of the best SGI meetings I attended produced similar effects. I really thought I would miss chanting with others but I simply don't. Maybe I will later. I am active in a fellowship where we share our experience, strength, and hope with each other so maybe that's why I don't miss the SGI meetings. For the past few months I have been keeping Shakyamuni, Nichiren, and the Gohonzon at the forefront of my prayer when I chant and this has been working for me. I don't know you so I cannot presume anything, but when you talk about missing the meetings your memory might be recalling only a small part of the actual meetings. For years the meetings I attended and hosted were not particularly encouraging. In fact, many were downright annoying since they were basically Ikeda-rallies or because I was typically disappointed by the turn out. Hm. I guess other people did not find the meetings encouraging enough to commit to helping out, answering their phones, returning messages, taking on responsibility in the meeting, or just attending. Did any of you ever have the feeling that people here simply don't want to do this? Did any of you ever feel that for all its talk of success, most members did not have many or many recent experiences that matched all the hype about the power of the practice? I did, yet I kept "chanting for the success of the meeting" only to have the same people come out. I don't mean this as a criticism of any of those well-intentioned people. The zeal that enabled the membership to explode in post-war Japan probably does not exist anymore since, fortunately, those dire conditions don't exist. Or maybe I was simply not committed enough to propagation, for some very good reasons. Perhaps when you were gung-ho things were different or you were just younger and often it's tempting to look nostalgically at those times and ignore the less-than-ideal aspects of even those things were think we remember so fondly.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2010 01:44PM by doubtful.

@doubtful,

I agreed with sgiwonder, regarding missing the meetings, but as I read your post I realized that I missed the meetings from over 10 years ago when we were very active and there were really good experiences. I guess if I think about it ,it has been a long time since I went to a meeting and felt that type of energy. As for my district meetings, it is similar to what you describe, they have taken to importing youth division from other groups, so many youth go to all the meetings and that makes it seem like more people are attending. Agreeing with your conclusion, for me it is notstalgia for a time long passed, but I wish there was some way to recreate that.

sgiwonder - I've been thinking a lot about your question regarding where do I find encouragement since that I've left the organization. Truthfully, that was one of the reasons I left the SGI - the "encouragement" was very encouraging anymore. When I first started practicing I was part of a great district, members really supported one another. The meetings were fun and there was lots of gosho study, which I loved. People shared their struggles and their victories. When someone was having a tough time we didn't talk about What Would Daisaku Ikeda Do but we all chanted together instead. But when I moved and became part of another district it was all about doing activites, giving money and the mentor-disciple relationship. I haven't been part of the organization or chanted for quite some time. But I guess I'm still seeking something because I'm here.

From an e-mail from a friend who is still in SGI:


"This is my "no rest for the wicked" week. The Chapter has a big leader in the zone coming Friday/Saturday so we have been having several planning meetings trying to get everything ready. We have our final planning meeting tonight. Then I meet with a member to work on writing out a faith experience tomorrow night (okay, that was self inflicted) then Thursday was the district study meeting at my apartment. Friday night is the leaders meeting. Oh and Saturday morning is the final meeting. Thus I'll have activities 5 days in a row."

I asked him, "Is all this really necessary?" He still feels that it is, stressed and tired though he may feel about it. I used to be the same way....tired, stressed, resentful, guilty about feeling tired, stressed and resentful. And yet I still felt that I had to jump through whatever hoops an SGI leader told me that I had to jump through. SO glad not to be doing that anymore!

Where is the Buddha in all this busy-ness, and how does putting on this dog and pony show to impress some big zone leader actually leading to world peace?

Some YWD in our area are passing out cute little bookmarks, bright red, blue and yellow and lamenated with a "quote" from President Ikeda. First of all, I don't believe he wrote it, but putting that aside, it so blatantly points out the importance of the organization over the happiness of the person:

First it has 3 points about opening or expanding our state of life, friendships, the way to victory, etc. (all good) and then is the quote:

"the more we broaden our inner capacity, the more people we can help on the path to happiness, the more we can foster able successors and the more we can contribute to the development of our organization. The driving force for expanding our inner state of life is chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo base on the spirit of the oneness of mentor and disciple." This is really very flat, not even very inspiring and I can hardly recall President Ikeda bringing up mentor disciple (or am I wrong), but those around him, protecting him, speaking for him now - certainly want to keep their positions and keep the empire going long after he goes.

The MDM (mentor disciple mistake) is really, really all wrong. This makes more sense to me: first of all, there is a mentor (teacher) and a "student", one learning from the mentor/teacher, so that goes together. On the other hand, there is a disciple ( a follower or a believer). So a mentor and a disciple don't even really go together (or am I crazy)? What's with this idea of coupling a mentor with a follower or believer of the mentor instead of a student of the mentor. Then there is the "Oneness of, which is just way, way, out of this world. So, this is where I am even today: I can accept Daisaku Ikeda as a teacher, and I have enjoyed being a student and have learned a lot about faith and determination. I have appreciation. Pretty much end of story.

I am only a disciple (follower / believer) of Nichiren Daishonin.

So, my point is not to invite debate about Nichiren vs. Skakyamuni or anything like that, just focusing on the MDM.

@Backnforth

Quote

The MDM (mentor disciple mistake) is really, really all wrong. This makes more sense to me: first of all, there is a mentor (teacher) and a "student", one learning from the mentor/teacher, so that goes together. On the other hand, there is a disciple ( a follower or a believer). So a mentor and a disciple don't even really go together (or am I crazy)? What's with this idea of coupling a mentor with a follower or believer of the mentor instead of a student of the mentor. Then there is the "Oneness of, which is just way, way, out of this world. So, this is where I am even today: I can accept Daisaku Ikeda as a teacher, and I have enjoyed being a student and have learned a lot about faith and determination. I have appreciation. Pretty much end of story.

The whole MDM issue is worrisome, partially for what you raise about Ikea's cronies wanting to keep themselves relevant into the future, but also the fundamental misdirection that SGI is being absorbed by in the name of MDM.

How can anyone be certain that they are following an organization that is committed to anything other than money and a cult of a personality in which there is no introspection. Good leaders are balanced, but more and more it looks like the imperative has shifted from following Nichiren's teaching over to preserving this particular flavor of the cult. How anyone can continue to support that sort of thing is beyond me. I recall reading once (maybe it was Ikea's "guidance") that the "organization" was the shadow of the "one true law". Following that model, if the core of Buddhism and Nichiren's teaching is being eroded away, then the organization will become the image of something else, entirely different.

Bumper sticker slogans may give the "look and feel" of buddhism, but the actual actions of the leaders and the members is a far better measure of whether the organization is headed for glory or to hell.

A pity!

Wakatta

Quote
tsukimoto

Where is the Buddha in all this busy-ness, and how does putting on this dog and pony show to impress some big zone leader actually leading to world peace?

Yes!! This is how I felt so many times. Usually as I was going off to attend yet another planning meeting to plan the next planning meeting. Dog and pony shows and planning meetings to plan the next dog and pony show.

FOR SURE: This is why IKEDA failed in his world conquest – he kept it Japanese centric while the other world religions incorporated other cultures – no matter where you go in SGI you are always in Japan – the goal is world peace but you have the entire organization – centered around Japanese corporate leaders and with IKEDA as MASTER to all doesn’t play well outside Japan where the culture needs a Most High Leader! Had a youth come back from IKEDA feast @ LA (RTE) and he was puzzled – because he and some others were talking to some non members about the most magnificent IKEDA and the people ask who is he? Taken back by this the YD said he is like Gandhi, or King – the people responded never heard of him! This was a downer for the young IKEDABOTS – so outside IKEDA little (SGI) empire he is an unknown – as he should be.
Just because he says he's the one doesn’t make it so…………………
A quote from a youth - Throughout the day, we could feel how Sensei was watching over our
gatherings and thinking about how to encourage us at every step of the way.
The FORCE (MASTER IKEDA)will be with you always $$$$$$$$$$$$$



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2010 12:08AM by cyclops.

Quote
cyclops
FOR SURE: This is why IKEDA failed in his world conquest – he kept it Japanese centric while the other world religions incorporated other cultures – no matter where you go in SGI you are always in Japan – the goal is world peace but you have the entire organization – centered around Japanese corporate leaders and with IKEDA as MASTER to all doesn’t play well outside Japan where the culture needs a Most High Leader! Had a youth come back from IKEDA feast @ LA (RTE) and he was puzzled – because he and some others were talking to some non members about the most magnificent IKEDA and the people ask who is he? Taken back by this the YD said he is like Gandhi, or King – the people responded never heard of him! This was a downer for the young IKEDABOTS – so outside IKEDA little (SGI) empire he is an unknown – as he should be.
Just because he says he's the one doesn’t make it so…………………
A quote from a youth - Throughout the day, we could feel how Sensei was watching over our
gatherings and thinking about how to encourage us at every step of the way.
The FORCE (MASTER IKEDA)will be with you always $$$$$$$$$$$$$

You see quite clearly for a cyclops!

Nichijew