@backnforth, You wrote, "I feel that the majority of members stay regardless of what is taught for 2 reasons: 1) Chanting feels good, and 2) the amazing sense of community especially if access to a large center. One thought that occurred to me today was how I must have been attracted to the chanting and the feeling of community in the beginning. And I really don't mind that chanting is mind-altering as some say. My mind can be so dang negative and lead me down such discouraging paths; I'm still so glad to have this tool - it helps me a lot. I realize not all people have such a bad time with negativity. Heck, it's kept all the anti-depressant drugs at bay, so why not? I've never tried them; I prefer to avoid drugs of all kinds for the record" I hear you. Some people have indicated that as Buddhists we need a sangha. I used to think that was true. Perhaps RRI has become my sangha. I practiced for 21 years with the organization but so far I am happier without it. If I feel I need a sangha I will seek one out or get together with former members who chant or current members who know my situation. For now I don't have those plans. Like you, I don't mind if chanting is mind-altering. I know too many people on anti-depressants who are still not quite right and if I have to choose between drugs or chanting to improve my perspective and responses, I will choose the chanting and all the possible self-delusion that may be taking place. @sgIwonder, I also don't regret my Gakkai activities because most of the time I only got involved in things that interested me in the first place like performing music and leading studies. I never did the fortress-guarding stuff that some here did. I was simply not interested in "making that cause" "building or accumulating fortune" that way or "challenging my weakness." Ah yes, that Gakkai-speak would only be intelligible to other Gakkai members. You mentioned that the activities were "amazing experiences I would never have had otherwise, working for a positive goal. I delayed my own advancement to help others -- I'm sure that giving myself over to a goal greater than myself helped me grow as a human being in ways I could never realize."This is the part I am not so sure about. What exactly was this altruistic goal? Was it a personal one you have not shared(and don't need to) or was it some ambiguous objective repeated continuously in Gakkai-speak at noisy meetings?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2010 11:24AM by doubtful.

Hey Doubtful,

you had asked how we handled being contacted by members - the phone call to my sister's house was the first contact I've had with SGI in quite some time. I have one close friend who is still in the SGI but we never talk about it. He's never asked me why I left, but I think he understands. I haven't called the chapter leader back and I don't plan on it. I wish she was calling just to say "hi" but I don't trust her motives.

As someone who has struggled with depression in the past I wanted to say that, for me, it was never a choice between chanting or anti-depressants. If I hadn't gotten medication, I don't know that I would be here now. That was an attitude I encounted not infrequently in SGI and it really bothered me - that if I really chanted I shouldn't need medication. Depression is an illness and like many illnesses, medication can mean the difference between life or death. When I had cancer, no one ever told me I should just chant and not do chemo. If chanting is enough to keep someone's depression at bay that's fantastic, but there's no shame in getting professional help when you need to.

[www.sgi-usa.org]

Latest hour plus youth division "encouragement" audio. Sensei mentioned > 400 x, chanting 20x, Nichiren Daishonin ~10x [one short Gosho lecture on the Three Treasures], Lotus Sutra 2x, Shakyamuni 1x

Lowlights:

“Youth! Why aren’t you seeking me out more.” — Ikeda Taisaku

“Exert fully to seek our mentor.” -

“How can I seek Sensei more.”

“How can I be a truer disciple of Sensei?”

“Joyfully do anything for Sensei.”

“Increase the number of Sensei’s disciples.”

“Never stop practicing with Sensei as our mentor.”

“Share Sensei’s heart.”

“Capitol of oneness of mentor and disciple

“My Sensei, my Sensei in my district.”

“How can I reply to Sensei?”

“My blood flows with Sensei.”

“Tell them about Sensei’s heart.”

“Teach them of the greatness of the mentor.”

“Write to Sensei about your victories and defeats in life.”

“Feel closer to Sensei.”

“How can I be a truer disciple of Sensei every day for the next ten or twenty years.”

“Sensei wants us to have the exact feeling we have now to seek Sensei. The true meaning of the indigo plant, ever stronger feelings for Sensei.”

“Never stop practicing with Sensei, even in twenty years at the 100th anniversery of the Soka Gakkai.”

Not only not Buddhist but BORING!!! Hearing Sensei mentioned so much, especially just before the halfway mark may give you a headache. Warning.

Nichijew, Thanks for the warning. I think I'll skip this one!!

doubtful asked:
What exactly was this altruistic goal? Was it a personal one you have not shared(and don't need to) or was it some ambiguous objective repeated continuously in Gakkai-speak at noisy meetings?

I joined during the Viet Nam War and had participated in a number of war protests prior to practicing. I felt through NSA/SGI I could actually be part of a world-wide movement for peace, while also improving myself. Since prior to joining I was a a kind of wall-flower -- withdrawn, sullen, confused -- I felt like I was both making a difference and also starting to come out of my shell and develop self-confidence, which I did. Luckily the membership did noting but try to help me in positive ways and I was able to avoid the drug and party scene. Also had a chance to visit Japan a few times and broaden my world and dramatically broaden my circle of friends nationwide. I was happily oblivious to any palace intrigues within the organization. The members also helped me pull myself up by my bootstraps by helping me find a part-time job that eventually led to a long interesting career. So I guess the most immediate objectives were to end the Viet Nam war, which happened, and be able to support myself by doing the things I loved to do, which also happened. NSA/SGI had little to do with ending the war, but, it did help us channel our fear and anger into positive things. As for my career my fellow members did have a direct affect on my ability to start supporting myself financially with a job where I could use my unique skills.

Then I need to think about the religion I left to join NSA/SGI, Catholicism. Now there's a pretty oppressive/hypocratic bunch -- with the threaten penalty being eternal damnation (or worse, the ruler on the knuckles from a nun), instead of bad effects for bad causes. Sadly, some of my fellow altar boys apparently suffered the penalty of "private' counseling from a kindly priest and became scarred for life. But a Catholic education gave lots of people a great start in life, just ask most of our Supreme Court Justices.

In Mormanism you have a lot of crazy rules, but lots of very successful people are Mormon.

In Islam they have those exploding vests. The jury is out on them right now, but they did influence the Renaissance and age of Enlightenment in Europe -- and helped create Algebra and influenced the poetry of Rumi. I like hummus and shish kabob a lot, too.

Judaism is pretty oppressive, but has produced some of our greatest thinkers, businessmen and entertainers -- and pastrami sandwiches.

Every religion has its warts and pitfalls it seems, which might be why, according to Pew research, the fastest growing faith right now is, NOTA (None of the Above). For all its faults think SGI compares favorably with most other organized religions -- except for that one where there are no rules, you get what ever you desire on demand, and live forever, guilt-free. The name of that one escapes me right now.

Tibbs,
No reference at all to Depression in my post. But some people take the anti-depressants for other reasons or are mis-diagnosed. Doctors are so free to start someone on an anti-depressant; I know many on them. For those with the depression disorder of course they need medication. My reference is to my darker side, where I get so negative and want to blame, blame, complain, complain, and it all just gets worse. Chanting has consistently helped me through this and I've got 25 or more year of my own personal proof. I'm aware that SGI does tend to have the attitude of chanting solves everything. I don't believe this is part of Nichiren's teachings at all. He was very compassionate and understanding with individual circumstances but preached the importance of dedication. The question for some of the other chanters might be: why does 5 minutes not have the same lasting effect as say 30 or 60 minutes? In times of stress, that 5 minutes just isn't enough for me. On that topic, I better get to it.

Doubtful, I love what you said about the RRI being your Sangha and fulfilling a need. I am checking in more now too and look forward to it.

I will be at a district meeting Saturday morning. We are starting to go over the intro study exam material, for the new (but so old) graded tests that we all should try to pass. LOL. I'm not planning to take the test. Been there done that. But in the material about the priesthood conflict, it goes into how there should be no one put in between you and your enlightenment. Yay - kinda like the mentor? Our dialogue will point out that no one can dictate if we can achieve enlightenment, no one!

Dear Backnforth:

As long as the national leaders who gave that audio encouragement aren't there, you shouldn't have any problem at your meeting. Maybe you should play the audio encouragement as an example of what not to do, in order to attain Enlightenment.

Mark

Nichijew, thanks for the link. I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. I didn't listen to the whole recording but just enough of it. All the forced enthusiasm, I remember that well now - We have to claim VICTORY! We have to FIGHT for others happiness! If that's Buddhism, it sure is stressful.

I remember geting guidance to "match my heart to Sensei" when I chanted. I was utterly confused-what on earth does that mean and how exactly was this going to help me in my practice? I could never get on board with the whole Daisaku Ikeda-as-mentor bandwagon.

Hi Tibbs:

The young woman, just before and around the middle is totally out of touch. She mentions Sensei close to one hundred times. One may skip everything except her speech for the full flavor of the audio.

Mark

Hi,nichijew,,the link to this seems broken,,mabe i try agan