@Dr.JesusEsq no worries about assuming I was a man. And, as far as doing what works for you, I'd say you are doing the right thing because it works for you, so my apology if it did not come out that way. I just felt that I had the need to confront members because I run into whether it's at my job or at the grocery store at least 4 times a week. Also, for me I have always been afraid of what people think of me (and this was way before SGI) so in order to not fall into the same trap of going back, I know now is the time for me to tell them or I won't. I know myself well and if they call or I should happen to run into a member and they ask for me to "host a meeting" or "lead gongyo", I know I will clamor up and go against my wishes. Actually also, a member came into a place where I worked and asked why I did not return her calls. I told her the truth, was very upfront and honest and she was actually supportive!! @Nichijew. I can definitely relate to what it is when you say that there is a "mixture of clean and unclean". There were so many times I felt that way yet I always ignored the signs, and you are right at times it was sooo subtle. The first time it happened was when I went to a shakabuku meeting and I had been a "guest" at these meeting for 6 weeks. I was told by various members to at least wait to get my gohonzan 90 days after being introduced yet a few of the YWD and my "sponsor" urging me to get it "right now". I told them that I probably was but I wanted to wait the 90 days. They said I had a fundamental darkness and that I should not let fear get to me and that the time was right. I began to cave in even though I did not agree to get it when, the next week at K-rufu Gongyo I had found out that my "sponsor" had secretly filled out the paperwork behind my back! I was riding in the car with her and we were rushing when she replied "we got to hurry up and have you sign your signature and do you have the check" I replied, "for what", when she told me, " For your gohonzan it's 30 dollars and you get a year subscription of the world tribune with it. I began to protest but she told me if I did not get it now then I never would. I got it anyway even though the decision was never mine, because I was clinically depressed then and scared to be alone and I really believed that I would not be happy if I did not have it. From then on a series of events would happen that would change my life for four years as a result of being apart of the organization.

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lthomas
For your gohonzan it's 30 dollars and you get a year subscription of the world tribune with it. I began to protest but she told me if I did not get it now then I never would. I got it anyway even though the decision was never mine, because I was clinically depressed then

This was actually quite disrespectful of your "sponsor".
I believe the prime objective for anyone leaving SGI is to get a clear outllook on life again, its a shame if their SGI-experience draws them away from buddhism but to my mind that is secondary as one should become "clean" again.

@ lthomas: Yous said you have a history of depression. In the case that you were discouraged by SGI to seek professional assitance, please make sure that there is a person still out there that can assist you on a professional level. We all went through similar phases when we decided to leave - depending also on the time one was in the cult. Especially if one was in the cult for a long period of time the loss of all attachment figures can be one of the hardest parts.

In my case what I found hard was to accept that the world is not to be devided into black and white, wrong or right anymore. As Billy Joel once said " Shades of grey is all I can see" --- hey and its okay. Compassion to my mind also includes to accept (to a certain degree) other peoples opinion, I can even accept the doctrinal issues on which SGI is based on, even though I have a different opinon. On the other other hand issues of doctrine are pushed to the background in SGI and newbies are not even properly taught anymore on what SGI is based on. What I can not accept are the cult mechanisms at work in SGI, which at a closer look turn out to be disrespectful to anyone how has a slightly different outlook on life and to whom mr. ikeda might be nothing else but a charlatan.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2010 06:10PM by Rothaus.

Dear lthomas [and Rothaus]:

It really doesn't have to be either a long drawn out detox or a depressing experience [leaving the Gakkai]. I was joyful. A big weight was lifted off my chest. Sure I was angry but my decision was not only an emotional one but a reasoned one based on study and reflection. Please feel free to dance for joy.

Nichijew

Nichijew, I also feel like a big weight was lifted off my chest.

I'm still being home-visited occasionally. For the first few months that I stopped going to meetings, nobody noticed, but after a while people started noticing that I wasn't there. Especially when my world tribune subscription ran out! The last time someone came over, I told her that my husband and I were doing really fine. She said the reason that we were doing fine was that we had built up a lot of fortune by all the years of practice and all of the "good causes" that we had made for SGI. But after a while, our fortune would run out. She had seen it happen many times.

Life is full of ups and downs. If something catastrophic happens to us, well, that's the way life is. Members of SGI have bad things happen to them, and non-members have bad things happen. But if something negative happens to us, it will be attributed to us leaving SGI.

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quiet one
Nichijew, I also feel like a big weight was lifted off my chest.

I'm still being home-visited occasionally. For the first few months that I stopped going to meetings, nobody noticed, but after a while people started noticing that I wasn't there. Especially when my world tribune subscription ran out! The last time someone came over, I told her that my husband and I were doing really fine. She said the reason that we were doing fine was that we had built up a lot of fortune by all the years of practice and all of the "good causes" that we had made for SGI. But after a while, our fortune would run out. She had seen it happen many times.

Life is full of ups and downs. If something catastrophic happens to us, well, that's the way life is. Members of SGI have bad things happen to them, and non-members have bad things happen. But if something negative happens to us, it will be attributed to us leaving SGI.

Dear Quietone:

Anecdotal evidence suggests that SGI members, especially their top leaders, fare worse than non-SGI members.

Nichijew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2010 01:01AM by Nichijew.

Nichijew, I've also noticed that sometimes members have it worse than non-members. Maybe they just chant instead of going to the doctor, working hard, planning, etc. Maybe they put themselves in dangerous spots and just chant for protection. Maybe they are too busy with SGI activities/meetings to get their lives together. Maybe they have a hard time creating genuine relationships with both members and non-members. Maybe they don't pay enough attention to their children and to their children's activities and don't give sufficient supervision when it's needed.

Yes quiet one. All those reasons and more.

Nichijew

@lthomas: It's cool. No worries there. Did someone really come to your workplace to get you back into chanting?? Are you serious!? At least she was supportive. Seriously, I would either tell them to chant more to stop being so possessive or even ask them if they were harassed into "Buddhism". I hear ya with the whole depression issue. In fact, being in the SGI amplified my depression for the longest time.

@Nichijew, Rothaus, and quiet one: I don't know how long ago you guys left the org. Since I joined in the year 2004 and recently left a few months ago, I think the SGI was in a really hazy phase of going from learning the traditional doctrine of Nichiren's teaching and going into the "humanistic" Ikedaism. Here's actually one reason why my depression and amplified and even turned to anger.

On one hand, at these meetings you hear these "experiences" of people having a certain problem and issue, they chant soooo many times in a day, at least for 2 hours, and then BOOM problem solved. They mostly say it is due to a change in circumstance, such as a boss gives them a raise so they can get their new car, a relative calls them up out of the blue and gives them money for education, or even an ex-partner writes them an email for no reason and wants to get back together with them. It's almost like saying if you chant, your luck changes.

And then, when I chant to improve all aspects of my life, obviously nothing changes. I ask the other members who have been in the practice longer than I have and they always tell me I am not taking the right action. Of course, when I ask them what's the point in chanting, that's when they give me some obtuse answer of infusing my Buddhahood with my ichinen and all that jazz. Yet, I still chanted for that "wisdom" that was supposed to open up.

That being said, it was a very confusing dichotomy. Actually since I stopped doing anything with SGI, at least I am depending on myself more to change my life and that has been improving.

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SGBye
In the area where I used to practice, they would have the Ikeda video meetings twice a month at the kaikan. When the attendance level at both meetings started running low, they began showing the videos at kofu gongyo. I hated that because I would avoid the Ikeda videos on purpose, and it felt like they were luring us into kofu gongyo only to turn around and shove the Ikeda videos right down your throat. Bait and switch, SGI-style!

All of those Ikeda videos follow the same pattern:
1. Ikeda comes onstage with his arms stretched out in victory to a cheering crowd.
2. A choir or band performs some militaristic-sounding SGI song.
3. Ikeda receives an award from a foreign dignitary.
4. Ikeda babbles on and on about how some park in some country you never heard of was christened "Ikeda Peace Park," or how some road in some third world country was named "Toda Way."
5. Daimoku sansho (the long & over-indulgent 10-minute Ikeda version).

LMAO! I used to up and leave when it was time to show the video. At the end of my time with SGI it was one of many things that I found creepy. The people in the video were doing sansho and the members in the kaikan would do sansho at the same time (to connect with Sensei!). It was almost as if we were chanting to the television screen.

@Ithomas - I run into people every now and then. Its either they look at me like I'm an alien or its like I've personally hurt them. I think this will be a long road. Afterall, I grew up in that community and they're not all going to know that I left. They didn't issue a memo about my leaving :). My parents feel too ashamed. It feels better to be up front with people in my case. I don't think the members even understand that I've left. They have the attitude that I will come back (like I did once before). So in the end it doesn't matter whether I am honest and upfront or trying to blend in to the wallpaper. They still call me. Only now they know why I'm not calling back. I think wayfarer used to talk about being strict re:members calling or trying to visit. Maybe its a process and I will eventually adopt that strictness myself.

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Nichijew
Sure I was angry but my decision was not only an emotional one but a reasoned one based on study and reflection

a decission that is based on leaving cult like structures and an environemnt of dogmatic bigotry is in my mind still one based on reflection and study. Its the consequences that I talked about.
Bigotry is something which in my mind sympthomatic for many nichiren followers but not to nichiren buddhism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2010 04:00AM by Rothaus.