Songshand, have you read this whole thread? It's long and varied -- but a lot of posters have discussed some of the things you mentioned, including the President Ikeda worship, recruiting, study materials and chanting as a solution to everything.

Below, I copied some information that you may be interested in from a thread about Byron Katie. She has a secular/self-help cult going, but as a twenty-year member of SGI, I find that a lot of these apply to SGI. It's amazing how similar these groups operate!

President Ikeda, the leader of SGI, has absolute authority and answers to nobody. In my opinion, this is really what was behind the SGI/Nichiren Shoshu split -- Ikeda simply got tired of priests telling him what he could and couldn't do.

Members have requested that SGI disclose information about how it handles its finances -- the leaders turn this back on the members and say that you are only asking because you lack faith! If you criticize or question ANYTHING about SGI, your leaders will make it sound as if you lack faith, or seeking spirit. People like me who leave -- we are considered evil, negative influences to be avoided. Members are surprised, when they run into me in the park or a store, that I'm still alive and healthy -- some really believe that terrible things happen to people who leave the Soka Gakkai because the leaders have told them that!

Members feel that chanting, converting other people to this Buddhism, and doing a considerable amount of unpaid work for SGI is the solution to EVERYTHING, from mental illness, to domestic violence, to cancer. I had a good friend, several years back, who was suffering from what appeared to be the beginning signs of schizophrenia. His leaders urged him to chant more. That's it. Not go to doctor or psychiatrist for evaluation and treatment, just chant! Back when the World Tribune had letters to the editor, there was a discussion of taking anti-depressant medication. A shocking number of members wrote in and said that taking anti-depressants was a cop-out -- people should just chant more. I was appalled. Would they tell a diabetic that taking insulin was a cop-out?

Songshand, if you like to chant, then do it...but don't listen to a thing that SGI leaders tell you. After years of being in SGI, they have turned off their critical thinking and common sense. All they know is to follow what Ikeda says, and to chant. If Ikeda announced that everyone should jump off a cliff tomorrow -- they'd all be running to the edge of the nearest cliff and jumping off.

Most of the SGI members I've known are nice, well-meaning people -- but the organization has gotten them very confused. Please don't stick around and let it confuse you too!

--------------------------Beginning of Quote-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

9. The group/leader is always right.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

-----------------------------------End of Quote------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This came from "A Chapter Leader's Diary," wwwfraughtwithperil.com -- a collection of blogs on Nichiren Buddhism. The woman who wrote the blog, Nancy, is a chapter leader in the Soka Gakkai. Please note -- this guy, Eddie, had been in jail for violent behavior toward his girl friend -- and still, SGI appointed him a unit leader! WHY!? Because they really believe that practicing this Buddhism can change anything, even violent, abusive behavior. Tragically for Jean, that was not the case.

This is why I say, "PLEASE don't listen to the 'guidance' of SGI leaders! They give advice on things that they know NOTHING about!


------Beginning of Quote, www.fraughwithperil.com, "A Chapter Leader's Diary Blog---------------------------------------------------------------------------

February 18, 2008

A Tragic End and a New Beginning

Friday, February 8, 2008 just before 6:00 pm I answered the phone. It was our WD area leader. She asked if I had heard about Jean. No... what? Another member says she was murdered by her boyfriend. Jean is one of our group leaders and her boyfriend, Eddie, was just appointed unit leader four days earlier. That first night was rough. The news wasn't releasing her name and we couldn't verify the information. I went to her apartment building and saw the police leaving her apartment – it was Jean.

Jean's life opened up when she introduced Eddie to her Buddhist practice. Last March she brought him to his first meeting. She taught him gongyo and chanted with him. Her practice became stronger and Eddie was happy. Eddie received his gohonzon on June 3, 2007 and we immediately enshrined it. Toward the end of August, Eddie and Jean had an argument and Eddie broke Jean's windshield. Jean immediately went to th police and had Eddie's parole violated. He spent four months in jail. During this time we told Jean that she an d Eddie had to live their own lives. They both had to get it together and it wasn't going to happen in their co-dependent relationship. I wrote to Eddie in jail and told him the same thing.

One Saturday at the end of December, Jean called and asked if I wanted to go to SVCC with her to chant for two hours. We went, but there was a meeting and we couldn't chant. As we were leaving, the bell toban (person who answers the phone at the CC) asked if we were from Monterey Area. He told us a woman from our county had just called in to say she wanted to reconnect to SGI. I called her, but Jean took the phone away and talked for 20 minutes. They became best friends that day. Jean was searching for someone to support and there she was. Jean's life was opening up – she was happy. I believe that night she had decided to break off the relationship. I believe she was ready.
----------------------------------------End of Quote---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"New beginning," she says! WHAT new beginning? This young woman is DEAD and she didn't have to die! "We're practicing this Buddhism, so everything will be all right in the end!"???? What "new beginning" is there for Jean, her family and her friends?

"Jean's life opened up when she introduced Eddie to her Buddhist practice." Please, he joined and then two months later, he quarreled with her and smashed the windshield on her car. Yeah, Buddhism was really making him more peaceful. She didn't need to be introducing him to Buddhism, she needed to be talking to someone who understood domestic violence and could help her make plans to safely get away from him.

SGI leaders could not tell her that because they are so invested in this notion that "Chanting and being a member of SGI can change anything." They don't like to admit that maybe chanting CAN'T fix everything...because so many years of their lives have been devoted to insisting that it can.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2009 04:40AM by tsukimoto.

Wow! That story is so sad and bizarre. "A new beginning." It's almost like any behavior can be excused as long as someone chants. I am a firm believer that a person should chant for another person's happiness AND one should do anything everything to protect themselves from another person's bad behavior. Like the so called "leader." I wish him well as human being AND once I heard the truth I did not even hesitate to let him know that he had been deliberately deceitful and needed to get out of my home immediately.

Can you tell me more about the other Nichiren Buddhist sects or any resources that have a more egalitarian view of other forms of Buddhism.

Thanks for your comments.

Commongirl:

Posting contact information is against the rules.

Please don't use this message board to preach, which is also against the rules.

@ commongirl

report to who???

the ones that will make sure things are well covered up to fit the party line?

I myself have been a member of SGI for more than 20 years, please note that this sort of usual rethoric won't work here, because we talk from REAL experience. You guys call us enemies of the law and that we commit slander.

Take some time and read the Lotus Sutra and Nichirens writings - without an SGI comment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2009 06:11AM by Rothaus.

@ commongirl

gosh it makes me so angry what you just wrote. talk to a leader? just read what tsukimoto said - a leader who may be an ex-convict that some SGI people put trust in? And if it woks out wrong? S..t happens?

thats one of the big flaws of SGI, people giving out "guidance" on urgent issues that they have by no means been trained for.

How many dsifunctional families I have seen in SGI. Not that this not the case outside of SGI, but the fact that so called "leaders" made things even worse.

"Just hang on in its a matter of your faith. Stay by your husband, be strong, show actual proof" --- god all mighty these people should get charged!!!

Quote
commongirl

I think you should report the behavior of this member right away! [...]

I hope you do so right away. One of the first things I learned, after being discouraged by the behavior of another member, is never to seek the Law outside myself. You have discovered a philosophy that could enable you to unlock your most beautiful potential. Please don't give that treasure way based on the poor behavior of someone else. It would be like, as Nichiren Daishonin explains, "exchanging gold for rocks." The SGI is like any other community in that it's a microcosm of society as a whole. That means there will be sincere people and not-so-sincere people. But I have come to appreciate it as a collection of ordinary human beings, each doing his or her best to change their lives.
Commongirl

Commongirl -- I don't entirely disagree with you. I too value the Gosho and the Lotus Sutra. I can also agree that there are good people and bad people in SGI, just as there are in any other organization. I didn't dispute that. My concerns are as follows:

1. SGI members are encouraged to "seek guidance" from leaders regarding any kinds of problems that they face in life. It's reasonable, then, to ask what kind of qualifications leaders have to give advice on sensitive issues like domestic violence, abuse, and mental illness. From what I have seen in almost twenty years with SGI -- most leaders are NOT prepared to advise members on such issues. As a result, with good intentions, they often give inappropriate advice that makes the problem worse.

2. Not to bash our Japanese leaders, who are practicing in the United States -- but in the Japanese culture, a wife who is being abused is often blamed for it. She is advised to be a better wife and try to please her abusive husband. Some of our Japanese leaders may tend to give that advice even here in the States. From what I have read of domestic violence, this is exactly the wrong advice to give. The more one tries to cater to and please an abuser, the more he (or she) feels free to bully the victim.

3. The Japanese culture is simply very different from western culture; Japanese leaders simply may not understand nonJapanese members' issues and with good intentions, give poor advice. (Certainly the reverse can happen too.)

4. Leaders always give the advice to chant more. What if you've chanted for hours every day and you still can't solve your problem? You not only still have the problem, but you feel like a failure -- and perhaps that's kept you from looking for better, and more practical solutions.

5. In the "Fraught With Peril" post, the young woman's leaders DID know of the boyfriend's violent behavior -- and yet still chose him to be a unit leader! Also, I can't believe that Songshand's leaders knew this men's division leader for so many years and did not know about his issues with violence.

I think in both cases, the men were allowed to be in leadership positions because their leaders believed that involvement with SGI (and chanting) would fix their propensity toward violence. I think it was a poor choice, putting a violent person in a leadership position -- a position of power, authority and trust. What would these two men say if one of their members confides, "My husband hits me." ? I suspect they'd say "Stop annoying him then!"

And if a member complains about bad treatment by such a leader? Are that leader's leaders going to be willing to say, "Oh, I made a mistake by putting him in that position." ? From what I've seen, no. One woman who posted here -- maybe Gingermarie? -- spoke of her struggles with an abusive male leader. Their leaders did nothing to help her deal with him, telling her that "it was her opportunity to change her karma." Yet President Ikeda has always insisted that male leaders are to treat women fairly and with respect. She said that, and was told "You can't wag Sensei's guidance at people." Really? Then why does SGI do it all the time?

So, no, I am not questioning Nichiren Buddhism, or expecting all members and leaders to be perfect all the time. My point is, that in SGI, leaders can have too much power without accountability -- and lack proper training in how to handle difficult issues.

Quote
Songshand
Wow! That story is so sad and bizarre. "A new beginning." It's almost like any behavior can be excused as long as someone chants. I am a firm believer that a person should chant for another person's happiness AND one should do anything everything to protect themselves from another person's bad behavior. Like the so called "leader." I wish him well as human being AND once I heard the truth I did not even hesitate to let him know that he had been deliberately deceitful and needed to get out of my home immediately.

Can you tell me more about the other Nichiren Buddhist sects or any resources that have a more egalitarian view of other forms of Buddhism.

Songshand, I don't know that it's so much that any behavior can be excused as long as the person chants -- it's that many of the leaders and long-time members believe that any behavior can be changed as long as the person chants. Maybe, maybe not. I've chanted for many years, and in some ways I've changed, in others I haven't. I've seen fellow members say that they have changed, and yet to me, they still seem to have the same anxiety, depression, temper or pattern of getting into bad relationships that they had ten or fifteen years ago.

You've seen at Soka Gakkai meetings, that people give experiences: "I had this problem, I chanted about it, I overcame it." What that teaches you to do is "reframe" your experiences. Anything good that happens in your life, you start thinking that your chanting and your work for SGI caused it. Anything bad? You didn't do enough for SGI. You didn't chant enough. Well, both good things and bad things happen to nonSGI members too! EVERYONE has ups and downs in their lives. Everything that happens to you is not always about SGI and how much you chanted. This, to me, is a very dangerous thing about SGI...the way members learn to reframe and reinterpret their experiences. Once you get into this mindset it can be difficult to get out of it. I've been out for three years, and I still find myself falling into this kind of superstitious thinking.

This mindset can lead people to make choices that are not always sensible. Perhaps Jean, the young woman who was murdered by her boyfriend, felt that she would be protected from him because she chanted....I've heard leaders and members say things like that, that if you practice, you will be protected, and if you leave or criticize SGI, bad things will happen to you. Or she felt that he would change because he was chanting.

An abusive or dishonest person can very quickly pick up on this mindset, this kind of talk, and perhaps be very convincing with other SGI members, "Oh, I did bad things in the past, but I've been chanting a lot and devoting myself to SGI -- and I see the error of my ways and I've changed!" And the other SGI members would believe him, because they so want to believe that this practice can create miraculous changes in people. I wouldn't trust a sex offender or a violent person no matter how much he or she chanted -- but some SGI members would, and then that person's in a position to exploit or hurt others again.

Good for you for getting that man out of your house!

Other Nichiren sects? You might want to PM Rothaus, if you are interested in Nichiren Shu. He's been studying it, and can speak more knowledgeably about it than I could. If a Nichiren Shoshu group is in your area, you might explore them. I know very little about them, but I doubt that they are as evil as SGI says. www.fraughtwithperil.com and buddhajones.com have blogs on Nichiren Buddhism.

Do you necessarily even need a group? If you like to chant, you can certainly do so without belonging to an organization or attending meetings.

I copied this from the thread of Diamond Way Buddhism. This Buddhism is in no way connected with the Nichiren Schools of Buddhism. I think that Diamond Way is Tibetan Buddhism, while the Nichiren schools are Japanese Mahayana Buddhism. But just notice how many similarities there are in how both the Diamond Way and the Soka Gakkai are run --despite the differences in their doctrines. It's like these cult leaders all read the same manual on how to run a cult!

----------Begin Quote, Diamond Way Thread, Rick Ross Forum (posted by Kate)-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A new experience posted on the Diamond Way Truths site:

Quote:

When I went to a Diamond Way centre for the first time I was received very warmly and surrounded with hugs and kisses. Everyone was very interested in who I was, what I was doing and what were my opinions. Then the more I stayed in the center I started to notice that what I thought was in fact pretty irrelevant. Its what the Lama says that matters.

When you spend a little more time you notice that critical thinking is the last thing that is tolerated especially if it questions even a little their beliefs.

Also, they seem to elevate themselves completely above the rest of the religions.

The very first thing I noticed in the centre was that whenever someone showed critical thinking inside the group their “leader” immediately started to talk in a very provocative way, stating “how things are” and just a long monologue of why the critical thoughts have no basis in their world. I don’t think I ever witnessed a genuine dialogue when discussing about existential matters.

There was simply no room for it. It seemed to me that everyone was trying to learn by heart Oles “The way things are” and discussions always ended in someone reciting its texts. They also seem to elevate themselves above pretty much the rest of the world also. Statements such as: “Psychology can only get a sick person normal, but Buddhism can make a normal person super-normal” just show the lack of common knowledge in basic human sciences and its just ridiculous.

I saw a lot of anger based behavior but it was always seen as active compassion. Critical thinking was seen as “ego-problems” or pride and practitioners were always feeling really guilty after having these very sane reactions in an unhealthy environment.

Then they went reciting mantras hoping these feelings would go away.
----------------------------------------End of Quote--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Similarities between the Diamond Way and SGI:

--Both groups love-bomb visitors.

--Critical thinking is discouraged. Members who do so are seen as arrogant and lacking in faith.

--Adore the leader (Ole Nyadhal for Diamond Way, Daisaku Ikeda for the Soka Gakkai.) Members must parrot the leader's ideas.

--They say that they value dialogue, but there is no real dialogue. If you don't agree with the leader, you are wrong.

--Psychology is not valued....if you have emotional problems, just practice Buddhism more!

--Members are told that endless recitation of mantras can make negative feelings go away.

--Both the Diamond Way and SGI consider themselves to be the only true Buddhism and disrespect other sects.

--Members are told to just study the leader's writings, rather than the actual teachings of Buddha.

--Members are made to feel guilty for having very reasonable questions, doubts or anger.

Songshand, I hope you seriously consider everything that you have read in this thread. I know it helped me enormously. Tsukimoto was right. I was the one who posted about the abusive leader. And, you know what? They appointed him to an even higher position, even after the leaders sought out my opinion! Just goes to show, if there is an active male who tows the party line, abusive or not, he'll be appointed. (it probably goes for females too)

Songshand, I was in this organization for 25 years and my only regret is that I didn't see this sooner; that I didn't run the first time I heard about this organization.

As far as leaders giving guidance; one of the last home visits I went on was to this woman who lived in a run down apartment in a dangerous city. I went during the day with a top territory leader. The woman we visited was in a really bad state. She had no money, her son, who had learning disabilities was just out of jail for the second time, and was staying with her, and she was just beside herself, in tears. Oh, and by the way, she had just put a huge down payment on a new alter and couldn't find the money to pay for the rest of it. Anyway, the leader said something like, "If your practice is strong, you'll have nothing to worry about." I was dumbfounded to hear this. What about some pratical advise, like,"get counseling, find some sort of job doing anything to bring in income; forget the alter, ask for a refund?"

The practice will pay the bills? This goes to show what Tsukimoto was saying how leaders give lousy advise to reinforce their own misguded belief system. This particular leader's husband can't find a job in his field of choice, and this has been going on for years! Her child has had emotional problems, and emotional difficulty with school. One SGI leader made an off handed comment suggesting that this territory leader's child had once too often been neglected in the name of the SGI. Hmm, and we're suppose to follow her guidance?

That was another reason why I bailed. I could not see myself giving "guidance" to anyone. I just knew I wasn't qualified. Period. Who is qualified? Those who went to school to be a minister, psychiatrist, psychologist, or social worker; are sought after through the proper channels and are compensated accordingly, not an SGI leader. Most
SGI leaders work for free, and as they say, "you get what you pay for." I can give free advise as good as anyone, here it goes; tip of the day, "don't bet on the horses!"

As far as Nichiren Shoshu goes, I use to hold the belief that they were EVIL, but now I understand where they are coming from, I mean, as far as the split. There is a lot of dubiousness as far as their doctrine, i.e. the authenticity of the Dai Gohonzon, and the proclamation that Nichiren Daishonin is the true buddha, which makes me realize how very little I really know about this buddhism at all! But the thing that turns me off the most is that they tend to run their meetings as a psudo-sgi meeting, well, at least the one's I've attended. It's not hard to imagine why; most of the participants are former SGI leaders and members. But for goodness sake, why copy something that you have split from? Why not start something new and fresh? I find it disturbing.

If I were going to find another sangha, I'd probably go Nichiren Shu, or Independent. I just don't have the energy or desire to do that right now. I am still "recovering" and rediscovering my life without the SGI, and I am happy with that.