obsidian, When I was young and single, I wanted to find a man, get married, and have a baby! For many years I chanted about it and did continuous activities for SGI--sometimes, just about every night during the week. I "took care" of a YWD for a few years who had some mental health issues, and nobody else wanted to give her rides to meetings, etc. becasue she was strange. I was assigned to take care of her, so becasue I was a devoted member, I faithfully had her by my side for a couple of years. Several times a week I would leave work, go and pick her up, go to the meeting, and then bring her back to her home when the meeting was over. All this time I wanted to find a man! This girl did a lot of "shakabuku" and she frequently had a guest along--sometimes a homeless person, sometimes a mentally ill person, even sometimes someone who was drunk! (Occasionally a normal person!) I don't regret at all the time I spent with this girl. In fact, I have fond memories of her and hope that I helped make her life better! It seemed like we all did help her to function a little better and added some consistency to her life. Anyways, one night, a man that she met in a bar came home with her and stabbed her to death. Everyone in my district/chapter was stunned and numb. By this time I was in my mid-thirties. A couple of months later I met a man who was shakabuked in another area, but had moved to my area. We started to go out, and then got married. We now have been married for 21 years and have 2 children! Sometimes I think that because I was "taking care" of the young woman, I did not have time to find a husband, but when she was gone it happened right away. I see many young women that are so devoted to SGI and want so desparately to get married, but can't find anyone within SGI and are too busy doing activities to find someone outside of SGI. Because in this country most people are not members of SGI, it can be really hard to find a spouse if you are only looking within the organization, but if you are an active member, how will you find someone on the outside? During my years of practice, I noticed that people who had spouses outside tended not to practice hard and often left SGI.

When my oldest daughter was in high school, she did occasionally hang out with the kids of the members that we practiced with. There were two other kids that were exactly her age and were in the same high school as her, and there were some other kids that were close in age. Sometimes they did socialize. SGI sponsored a beach party and a few other events for them that they enjoyed. But after high school they all went their separate ways and I don't think my daughter has seen them since that time. I'm sure that some "youth division" date. There are many older people who are married to other members, so there has to be dating within SGI!

I've only ever lived in areas where there were not all that many SGI members. Sure, an SGI member might prefer to date another member -- but nobody I knew insisted on dating ONLY SGI members. We couldn't. It would limit your love life far too much. There might be only one or two single SGI members the right age and sex in a fifty-mile radius -- and you spend so much time with them, they seem more like family than potential lovers. Plus, if the relationship doesn't work out, you've got to see them all the time at meetings....ugh. I know leaders who've married nonmembers. Where you do have a husband and wife who are both members -- often they converted together. Or when they married, one person was a member and the other joined later.

ALSO, if members do socialize outside of SGI -- their friends, boyfriends and girlfriends may become interested in joining SGI too. SGI's goal is to grow and expand into mainstream society. That won't happen if members just keep to themselves and don't associate with people outside of SGI.

I myself dated two men that I met at meetings. With the first guy, it was only two or three dates; the other relationship went on longer. He wanted to marry me, but I didn't love him. Other dates/relationships, I met them through friends, through another organization I was in, and once, through a personals ad. Oddly enough, that was the longest and best of my relationships. I really believed that we were going to be together forever, but it wasn't to be.

The high school and college age children of SGI members? As with the older members, the low numbers affect activities. Around here, there's only a handful of teens whose families are SGI. So any youth group is going to be very small -- and have a large age spread. The eighteen-year old probably doesn't want to -- and shouldn't -- hang out with the thirteen and fourteen year old. And the thirteen and fourteen year old may not like eachother anyway. The great majority of their friends from school and the neighborhood are not Buddhist -- and as a teenager, you hate to be different. So, many of the members' kids resist doing anything with SGI at all, and don't even want their friends to know that their family practices Buddhism. ("Mom, PLEASE, PLEASE don't chant when my friends are here!") Some kids even ask to go to Christian services with their grandparents or their best friend's family. The college students might come to SGI meetings now and then, especially if we served decent snacks, but they were not about to set up an altar and chant in their dormitory room. I don't think I would have at that age either.

And yes, as Quiet One says, there are also a lot of SGI women who want to get married, but spend a great deal of time at SGI meetings and activities -- which does greatly cut into the time that they have to meet men. Linda Johnson, one of the senior leaders of SGI-USA, apparently had this problem. (or at least did a few years back; I have no idea what's happened to her in recent years.) She was chanting a lot to get married. Linda, close the Butsudan, and go somewhere where you might meet some guys! These women are given the guidance that they should chant more and do more SGI activities -- to destroy the bad karma that keeps them from finding a husband. And the irony is, it's all this activity that KEEPS them from meeting possible husbands -- they keep trying, and blaming themselves when they don't meet anyone that they want to marry. It becomes a vicious cycle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2009 06:07AM by tsukimoto.

From agoravox.com:

Human rights activists worldwide were outraged this week to learn that in a new Scientology cult fundraising video, cult founder L. Ron Hubbard is described as a humanitarian and inspirational world leader on a par with Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa, Mahatma Gandhi, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Nelson Mandela.Human rights activists worldwide were outraged this week to learn that in a new Scientology cult fundraising video, cult founder L. Ron Hubbard is described as a humanitarian and inspirational world leader on a par with Martin Luther King, Mother Teresa, Mahatma Gandhi, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Nelson Mandela.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I couldn't believe it when I read this article on agoravox! SGI has an exhibit comparing President Ikeda to Gandhi and Martin Luther King. Honestly, do these guys just follow the same manual? Ikeda at least doesn't compare himself to Mother Teresa and Eleanor Roosevelt. Is he modest or just sexist?

This is from the wayback machine, buddhajones.com, May 24, 2004. (Click on "Confusing Information to Dismiss.)

{Quote}SGI-USA is a multimillion-dollar religious corporation

According to LA County tax records, SGI Plaza and adjacent properties around Sixth and Wilshire in Santa Monica are valued at over $20 million. (These are just tax valuations, not the market value.)
Just across the street, the World Culture Center and Ikeda Auditorium and the house behind the WCC are valued at more than $7 million.
SGI-USA’s Malibu Training Center, with a tax valuation of $1.4 million, was on the market in June 2003 for $21 million. It sold for $14.5 million in June 2003. SGI originally purchased the property in 1972 for a reported $109,000.
The LA Friendship Center -- $3,600,000
The Santa Monica Community Center -- $4,300,000
Soka University, Los Angeles in Calabasas -- $14,000,000
Plus, this other little bit of SULA -- $5,700,000
A quick search on hawaiipropertytax.com brings up results of "agricultural properties" owned by Soka Gakkai:
10 acres - parcel 220480940000
3 acres - parcel 160093950000
3 acres - parcel 160093960000
10 acres - parcel 220480950000
SGI-USA's main facility in Hawaii is the Hawaii Culture Center -- Market Land Value $2,318,800; Market Building Value $14,950,000
In Hawaii, Soka Gakkai also owns: Makaha Community Center; Maui Community Center; Pupukea Community Center.
The Soka University of America campus in Aliso Viejo, Calif., opened in 2001 with an endowment of $300 million to teach a class of fewer than 200 students. GuideStar.org reports that SUA has assets in excess of $700 million.
The Denver Culture Center ($2.5 million), the New York Culture Center ($5.7 million), the Florida Nature and Culture Center ($3 million) are all listed in tax records as being owned by Soka Gakkai International-USA. There are more properties in Chicago, San Francisco, Seattle, etc., but you get the idea.{Quote}

Hi Rothaus,

Yes, I believe you are right. The entire set of "unique" aspects of Taiseki-Ji's claims to fame now seems circumstantial to me.

The claims of Kechimyaku is at the core of it. Nikko was one of the junior priests and I think the claims to his legitimacy revolved around his situation. Then the "DaiGohonzon" which in the early days of SGI was revered to us almost as if it floated down from heaven to the temple, but during the schism seemed to fade in importance. The same for the Sho-Hondo which was promoted as the fulfillment of the three great secret laws but turned out to be "just another building".

In retrospect, a lot of those claims seem to be "stories told around the campfire" which evaporate or morph into something else when you subject them to close scrutiny or involve other perspectives. I recall a Japanese movie called "Rashamon" in which four travellers tell the same story of a murder but from four different perspectives, each seeming plausable but each from totally different points of view, and in each the characters motivations and actions were totally different.

Nichiren Shoshu, Nichiren Shu and the various other Nichiren sects have spent the last 700 years or so developing their individual cover stories so it is reasonable to assume there will be major differences.

Back to SGI, it almost seems to me that SGI simply went the way of the past temples and formed its own branch of the three, triangulated its own dogma, inserted bits of folklore to show its own legitimacy, and in 200 years will be known as the "Nichiren Ikeda Kanemochi" sect.

I'm also reminded of a story I heard in Japan that there was a religious sect that worshipped foxes, and the story went that there were foxes in Japan that could transform themselves into people to trick them. Guess I know where one of those foxes is.

Wakatta

Tsukimoto,

Heh!

1. The Guru is always right.
2. You are always wrong.

And if you dispute #2, then go back to #1 :^)

Wakatta

Quote
tsukimoto
From agoravox.com:

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I couldn't believe it when I read this article on agoravox! SGI has an exhibit comparing President Ikeda to Gandhi and Martin Luther King. Honestly, do these guys just follow the same manual? Ikeda at least doesn't compare himself to Mother Teresa and Eleanor Roosevelt. Is he modest or just sexist?

For some reason the psyche of the cult leaders is such that they need to see themselves portrayed against a backdrop. Individuals like mother teresa never sought to become models of behavior, but their symbolism is what the cult leader needs to legitimize their motives.

And as the list you posted before says, "the leader is always right". :^)

Hi wakatta1

well at least in Nichiren Shu they seems to be able to have disputes without calling each other names :-)

The fox thing is something that Iwas told in SGI too. They said Nichiren Shu worships foxes - checked that its a load of crap. I hope I get this right at some buddhist temples, one may find a shinto shrine, in most cases this is not on the premises of the temples just near by - just as things happen over the course of time an in Shinto the fox seems to play a mythical role, but nobody in Nichiren Shu worships foxes (even though they are nice to look at).

:-)

Rothaus, I was also told by SGI that some type of Buddhism worships foxes.

A quick note about "cults", sometimes it seems some references make it far too complicated.
And of course, there are many "cult apologists" who deliberately try to confuse the issues.

Its unfortunate people often think of "cults" as being bald-headed bongo drummers, or mass suicides. Those are the most extreme examples.

But there are countless other much larger cults, where things are not so black and white, where people dress normally, hold jobs, etc.

And there are currently more advanced "cults" who deliberately portray themselves as to contradict the cult criteria! So the criteria for "what is a cult" certainly needs to be updated. There are many sects now who deliberately use reverse psychology on people, and make their Org look very different from a "cult", in terms of the criteria.
They do this on purpose, as one can see from their websites, where they list the common cult criteria, and then say they don't meet the criteria for a cult! This is to convince members they are not in any type of cult.
And of course, people in "cults" generally don't see it as a cult, or if they do, they reframe the word cult to means something positive.

But the criteria for a cult, can be just using common sense.

Exploitation:
In what way are people being exploited and used? Sometimes, for lower level people, all the cult wants is their money, free labor, and to reruit their friends. Only people way up in the cult are asked to give everything to the sect. That is how SGI works.
Someone said that Ikeda doesn't trust anyone who has not been SGI for 10 years? That is probably correct, as anyone under 10 years, is just a pawn/peon to them.

Deception:
SGI consciously uses deception to recruit people, that is a proven fact, even seen in this thread where they get someone to meet them under false pretences, then ambush them at the SGI center with 6 hrs of high-pressure conversion tactics. That's a cult.
They even go as far as training the everyday SGI people to recruit, without knowing what they are really doing. So they are giving false information to people, but also doing it by deceiving their own SGI people.

SGI also uses very advanced and carefully constructed persuasion techniques, which have changed with the times, and strategies.
So no question, SGI is a cult. But the SGI-USA and the other levels of SGI are really seperate operating systems.
The inner-circle of SGI seems to be absolutely fanatical. What would happen to a person or their family, if someone who knew the inside scoop on SGI inner circle, spoke out in public?
SGI would go at that person with every tactic in their arsenal, and many that have only been hinted at so far. Especially at the highest levels, SGI is very fanatical, and dangerous.