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They are so out of touch with reality that they probably think that non-member parents should be grateful that their children are being led in the "right" direction; they are no longer capable of thinking about anything outside of the cult context.

Yeah, I remember this one Christian guy I was arguing with online :P was telling me that I should be taking my kids to church so at least THEY would have a chance at going to "heaven"! HA!

I've never known whether he was being serious or not :/

TaP - I'm pretty sure he was serious - those hellfire and damnation folks don't joke around about hellfire and damnation ya know.

No sense in arguing with those people - it's a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Yes, no sense going into a battle of the wits with someone who's only half-armed!

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meh
Unfortunately, this s being presented to innocuously to those friends who are being invited to a fun night of laser-tag (and how blasting one another with laser beams ties in with the passivity of Buddhism I'm not sure). There's nothing there to really raise suspicion - activities like that are somehow considered wholesome fun. Most parents wouldn't raise a question or an eyebrow - typical church groups have these kinds of activities all the time, and there's nothing on the surface to warn anyone about how hyper-predatory sgi is. Maybe that's a place for us to start raising awareness - especially those of us who are active in PTAs and other community organizations who offer services to our kids; let them know that these predatory practices are taking place and give them concrete examples like this. We try to protect and educate our children about drugs for the body, maybe we need to start taking the same stance on drugs for the mind.

I absolutely agree with you meh. A lot of parents think their children have fun pure at the "lovely" buddhist people of sgi and do not question more about it. I have done the google search with " water fun games soka gakkai" and it results in: the second link leads to this mb. So if there are careful parents out there who do a control about the event on the net, they can find a lot of information on 671 pages on this forum. I am quite hopeful, they will not hand their kids to a harmful cult!

Sixtyseven, I hope you're right.

For those of you who are involved in your children's lives, I'll apologize in advance here; my kids are grown, so I really don't have a lot of interaction with parents of younger children these days. It seems to me, though, that there are too many of them who are completely willing to hand the care of their kids off to other people. I think there's a strong temptation for them to just see something like "water fun games" with any so-called religious organization and simply think that something church-based is going to be safe for those kids. Parents now seem so concerned about sexual predation (rightfully so, sadly) that it doesn't occur to them that something that appears as innocent as a church activity may be equally dangerous. It brings to mind the South Park episode . . . they just seem so nice, and their families are so happy and balanced!

I was thinking about the whole concept of cults last night, and how loose the definition can be. I was brought up as a catholic and, while most of the people I knew were pretty casual about their involvement in the church, there were those who were fanatical about it; I'm relatively sure that's true of any organization, whether it's a church, a club, an employer or even a multi-level marketing organization (a lot of the latter are owned and operated by Mormons, by the way, most notably Amway and Herbal Life!) The level of participation and buying into the whole particular line of BS, is largely individual. There are catholics, for example, who go to mass and communion every day, go to confession as often as they're supposed to, and follow every single rule, believing that that's the only way they'll get into heaven; they don't question the authority of the pope/church, they don't socialize outside of the religion, they attribute everything positive in their lives to their adherence to the faith and every negative event is a punishment for some transgression. That sounds pretty cult-ish to me. On the other hand, there are the Christmas/Easter catholics who follow the major directives but other than that, give only lip-service to the more demanding rules. They might give up chocolate for lent, but they still eat meat on Fridays during that period, for instance.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that there are some church organizations that may affect their members on an individual basis as a cult would - I'll generalize here and say that those would be the more conventional and immediately recognizable; for example, if someone tells me that they're an Episcopalian, a Jew or a Hindu, I'm going to be fairly comfortable with that and not think that they might be a nut-job. Anything evangelical immediately raises my suspicions, and anyone who tells me that they belong to a group that believes when they die they'll go to the planet Photon is going to make me want to politely disguise a snicker. I would immediately think "cult" as far as the latter are concerned. It just seems that the older, more conventional religions attract fewer people who have a cult-like fervor, whereas the newer, more-contrived ones may be prone to attracting the wing-nuts.

Nichiren itself is pretty old, but the sgi influence is relatively new - prior to makaguchi and toda, it was a pretty obscure group and had a narrow following, so I put it in that neo-religion group as of the 1920's-1930's. Its association with Buddhism clouds that, though, and unless you really recognize that it's a modern creation, it's a pretty blurry distinction. If someone is looking, as I was, for easy-access/immediate-gratification, it fills the bill perfectly. When compared to Tibetan Buddhism, where you actually have to do quite a bit of work to begin understanding it, sgi is the kraft macaroni and cheese version of Buddhism. It fits in with our modern need for short-cuts - the only real work required is chanting and going to meetings; hypnosis makes that progressively easier and reduces the need to ask hard questions.

I really wish that there was some way to be more public about what a terrible organization this is and to warn people away from it.

I agree. I hope some of the unsuspecting parents have the foresight to check into *what* the $GI is --> a pseudo-buddhist CULT (of the Ikeda personality) ORG..

Currently at 670+ pages on a "Cult Education Forum", . . . . where there is smoke . . . . . .

*****

Ideally, from the cult org.'s perspective (unfortunately, for the victim / mark), some current member's kid(s) invite a non-member acquaintance to one of these "innocuous" "buddhist" gatherings for a weekend afternoon, there's a lot of fun, a "seed is planted", and eventually they get asked (hounded / pressured) to come out to a formal "meeting."

Over time, this snowballs into the kid joining the "Young Lion's - ESD" group (or better yet, one or more of the parents converting). The kid grows up being shackled to superstition, magical thinking, and ritual.

They eventually move into the "YOUTH!" proper (YMD / YWD), where it is intense cult mind games (thought reform) with their naive, innocent and impressionable mental hard drive being even more intensely encoded with all the cult speak vocabulary and worldview.

All the while, the new victims, as part of their "appreciation" (and to change their own "karma"), convert and bring in a few others for the ride, along the way. The former kid matures (physically only?) into an adult, graduates into the MD or WD and by this time has their own kids growing up in the cult org. (repeating the cycle) and is also now supporting the new generation of "precious" marks / victims in the "YOUTH!" division, for cult org. sustainment and progression.

Rewind / reset & repeat the cycle. Manipulate and use each mark / victim to the greatest extent possible (as much as they'll let you), until you suck them dry or they die with their happy delusion.

The End (but there are always others).

*****

Back when I was in, I tolerated, dreaded, and then eventually hated (in that order) CULT ORG. Sundays.

This is from "Singapore's Soka Association - Sunday Morning Prayer Meeting, April 2013" (don't you love the name change, "Prayer mtg.")

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"It is to record the high spirit of the members with musical notes. The Lyric describes the Gongyo Meeting Place like "Ryojusen" (Eagle Peak), Daimoku is like a vibrant song which all members sing together with noble spirit! We hope all members will enjoy this song and sing happily at every Sunday Morning Prayer Meeting. (The singers were only given very short time to hear and learn the song, and practised only once (for 2 hours) to perform early in the morning at the meeting, on this meaningful day 28 April 2013, 760 Years Anniversary of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. Their spirit is commendable! The youth really engrave Sensei's Guidance in their heart and sang with Courage and high spirit! Thank you!)

[Hitch's comment: the bolded portion is quintessential gakkai cult speak. They are singing about "Eagle Peak", which is basically the equivalent to living on a cloud with Jesus forever, in Christianity.]

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Sunday Morning

I wake up every Sunday morning
Looking forward to a brand new day
There is goodwill for all I see
There's joy to share with all I meet
There is joy to share with all I meet

I'm keeping my footsteps light all day
So I can sing and dance all week
And there's nothing I cannot do
We're all united in prayers
We're always united in prayers

Good morning it's a Sunday morning
It's morning, a happy morning
Let's welcome the morning sun
Cos our good days has just begun

Sunday Gongyo , let us sing along
Daimoku is a vibrant song
People ( all ) around are my friends
This is our place, our Ryojusen!

This is our place, our Ryojusen!

*instrumental*

Sunday Gongyo , let us sing along
Daimoku is a vibrant song
People ( all ) around are my friends
This is our place, our Ryojusen!

Our Ryojusen!

[www.youtube.com]

[Hitch's comment: Singing about the glory of Sunday CULT ORG. meetings, is new one on me.]


- Hitch

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It seems to me, though, that there are too many of them who are completely willing to hand the care of their kids off to other people. I think there's a strong temptation for them to just see something like "water fun games" with any so-called religious organization and simply think that something church-based is going to be safe for those kids.

It's not always just ignorance and optimism at work here.

A friend of mine who worked, and her husband worked, too, responded to an ad for a week-long "Sports/Art Camp" to be held at a nearby church. She called and asked if it was religion-based, and was told, "No, we might have a prayer at the end or something because it's being held in a church, but your children can choose either the 'Sports' track or the 'Art' track." At $25 for 5 full days of child care, what a boon to working parents, right?

When she and her husband took the kids to the signup open house, there were refreshments and inflatable bounce houses - very kid-appealing. She looked over the release form - it was standard stuff, who to call in an emergency, can we call in medical professionals if needed, blah blah blah.

It was only when they got the kids alone that they started the hard-core indoctrination into Evangelical Christianity. The day started with an "assembly" where teenagers would get up and speak about how important "god" and "the lord" and "jesus" were in their lives etc. etc. The typical Evangelical call-response style audience engagement was used: "Are you on Jesus's team?" "Yeah!" "Whose team do you want to be on?" "Jesus!" "Would you ever consider anything else?" "NO!" That sort of thing.

By the end of the second day, their children (ages 5 and 7) were coming home very confused and asking questions like, "Mommy, how do I ask god into my heart?" She said, "Don't worry, honey, he's already there." And did not finish out the week. It was pure bait-and-switch. And these are college-educated, upper middle class professionals - THEY checked it out carefully and even THEY were fooled! Just think how much these groups can run roughshod over less educated, poor people!

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Anything evangelical immediately raises my suspicions, and anyone who tells me that they belong to a group that believes when they die they'll go to the planet Photon is going to make me want to politely disguise a snicker. I would immediately think "cult" as far as the latter are concerned. It just seems that the older, more conventional religions attract fewer people who have a cult-like fervor, whereas the newer, more-contrived ones may be prone to attracting the wing-nuts.

I think that's a fair assessment, but we need to be on the lookout for how much indoctrination we've absorbed from our cultural milieu. For example, a cult awareness article written by Timothy Conway, PhD., includes the following in its list of warning signs of dysfunctional cults:

Obsession with invisible or other-worldly entities or forces other than God.

Why should we think that obsession with the invisible, other-worldly entity or force that Christians and Jews refer to as “God” is not dysfunctional? Would a Muslim, whose sole deity goes by the name of “Allah,” agree? Would a Hindu, whose dominant deity is referred to as Brahma (or Brahman), accept such a statement? What would a Buddhist or a Jain, who believes in no gods, think? Is this statement unconsciously betraying the author’s cultural bias, evidence of his however unconscious indoctrination into Christianity (“Everything we do is normal”)?

Are we even aware of the preconceived notions we accept as “normal” and “natural?” I’m sure most of us accept that it is perfectly “normal” to have so many churches dotting our landscape; it’s what we are accustomed to. That means there will be no democratic discussion of whether their effect is positive, benign, or negative. The status quo abides.

Children to a certain age accept without question whatever authority figures tell them; it is this understanding that drives most religions’ zeal to indoctrinate young children, and the younger, the better. What these children learn is then stored in their subconscious, and from there it influences their attitudes and beliefs for the rest of their lives.

"Give me the boy until he is seven, and I will give you the man.” – motto attributed to the Jesuits

Researchers Gregory Paul & Phil Zuckerman have observed that “(d) isbelief in the supernatural alone is able to achieve extraordinary rates of growth (in apostasy, secularism, and atheism) by voluntary conversion” and that “freedom from belief in the supernatural is rising among the growing segment that enjoys higher incomes and sophisticated education.”

References:
[www.enlightened-spirituality.org]
[www.edge.org]

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Nichiren itself is pretty old, but the sgi influence is relatively new - prior to makaguchi and toda, it was a pretty obscure group and had a narrow following, so I put it in that neo-religion group as of the 1920's-1930's. Its association with Buddhism clouds that, though, and unless you really recognize that it's a modern creation, it's a pretty blurry distinction. If someone is looking, as I was, for easy-access/immediate-gratification, it fills the bill perfectly. When compared to Tibetan Buddhism, where you actually have to do quite a bit of work to begin understanding it, sgi is the kraft macaroni and cheese version of Buddhism. It fits in with our modern need for short-cuts - the only real work required is chanting and going to meetings; hypnosis makes that progressively easier and reduces the need to ask hard questions.

Again, a fair assessment.

While kids are certainly deeply influenced in their early years, I think the individual personality may be (to a certain degree) almost hard-wired. My kids are 15 months apart, obviously raised by the same parent with the same influences; they are as different as day from night in many ways. My daughter would identify herself as a catholic, although I can't even imagine the last time she went to church and other than skipping meat on Fridays during lent, doesn't follow along with the edicts. She doesn't have any papist trumpery in her house, so her designation is pretty shallow. My son, on the other hand, pretty much despises religion in any form and would categorize himself as a rabid atheist. They both went to catholic school until the seventh and eighth grades - this wasn't a desire to indoctrinate them in any way, but the city public schools were appalling where we lived and I wanted them to at least emerge with an ability to read and write. Politically, my son is a libertarian, my daughter is much closer to being conservative. I was raised in a catholic home as well, and I attended catholic schools until seventh grade, taking the first opportunity to run away like the wind as soon as I could.

It seems to be a sad confluence when someone who has a predisposition to being led into a cult encounters the "opportunity" to be found by one. As I wrote before, I think you can find cultish members in any religion (and I'm sure any religion would like to cultivate that level of zealousness), but being an actual cult seems to cross an indefinable line. If you look at a list of red flags that presumably help you to identify a cult, they could apply, once again, to anything from Anabaptist to Zoroastrian.

I suspect that there are probably a number of people out there who chant and would identify themselves as sgi members, but have nothing to do with meetings or the organization, but it's probably in inverse proportion to what we see in more conventional churches, i.e., there are a higher number of fanatical whackos at krg than there are at weekly mass.

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It was only when they got the kids alone that they started the hard-core indoctrination into Evangelical Christianity. The day started with an "assembly" where teenagers would get up and speak about how important "god" and "the lord" and "jesus" were in their lives etc. etc. The typical Evangelical call-response style audience engagement was used: "Are you on Jesus's team?" "Yeah!" "Whose team do you want to be on?" "Jesus!" "Would you ever consider anything else?" "NO!" That sort of thing.

It was the exact same thing in "Jr. Pioneers" and later YMD "YOUTH!" meetings. Even at that time, I noticed a marked difference in the behavior, conduct and intensity of the hardcore "leaders" and meetings, behind closed doors, once all the parents were gone. The zealotry, strictness, fear factor, intimidation and yelling (Hi! Ethan Gelbaum!) were all ratcheted up several notches after the adults departed.

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By the end of the second day, their children (ages 5 and 7) were coming home very confused and asking questions like, "Mommy, how do I ask god into my heart?"

I've written about it before, but it was at one of these intense hardcore YMD meetings (maybe early high school days for me), that I first heard and learned about the great honors of being asked / expected to wear Cousin Rufus diapers and perform for The Dear Leader Ikeda (no joke, it was about emulating the (in)famous "Kansai Member Spirit" of the motherland).

It was also at some these same area meetings that I witnessed the 100 mph versions of "Have A Gohonzon" [nichiren.info] (Hava Nagila [www.youtube.com] tune) or "I've Been Doing Shakubuku - All The Live Long Day" [nichiren.info] (Working on the Railroad tune), bug eyes popping out of their heads, right arms wildly swinging back-n-forth, and more shouting the song than actually singing it.

The weirdos and freaks really came out of the woodwork at these types of meetings. Today, I refer to these same types of individuals as zombie Ikeda-bot-borg-members.


- Hitch

Cults In Our Midst (pun on Singer's book, intentional) - [www.youtube.com].

Who isn't for "World Peace"? It's a noble and worthwhile goal. However, . . . .

It's $oka Gakkai CULT ORG. bait-and-switch --> "World Peace" = Cousin Rufus = The Magic Chant (NMRK) = The Dear Leader, Ikeda, "in" your heart & soul, forever. To "deviate" away from the "path", is "fundamental darkness", negativity, (fake) karma. Devotion to the cult org. is the only "true" path to make it ("World Peace") happen.

(All the above is the eventual end result of gakkai cult org. thought reform, which they will try very hard to instill into you, over time.)

It's also, non-sequitur. (A simple fact that many may never really come to grasp.)

In this clip, the pseudo-buddhist gakkai cult org. places exhibits in the lobby of a small public liberal arts university (Midwestern State University [en.wikipedia.org]), giving the luster of semi-official "endorsement." Reading the huge, colorful banner displays, it's all non-sequitur. The gakkai cult org. isn't about any of that. Never has been, either. Many are under the delusion or illusion that it is, but it isn't.

(Notice the smiling Ikeda-bots that pop-up , as well as the welcome table draped with the large tri-color gakkai cult org. official flag, 4:35 min. mark. The table is festooned with cult org. pamphlets, complimentary copies of "The Weird Tribune", tri-color paper lotus flowers, snacks, candies, muffins, and water.)

So pleasing, so welcoming, so warm and fuzzy, so nice.

CULT!



- Hitch

PS - Hosted by the $GI "YOUTH!" "Student Division", of course. Also, when you view from the 4:35 min. mark, listen very carefully to what the noble world peace compassionate bodhisattva's of the earth are talking about:

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"He's got really bad breath. Oh, I know who it is! Jacob! Yeah. OMG, seriously, like, just physically looking at him, and personality wise, it's like .... yeah, OK, .... but, then like, if you're within a foot, ..... your eyebrows burn."

I kid you not. (This exchange starts, almost in a whisper, from the 4:46 minute mark.)

How sad. Again, the incongruity is completely lost on many. (i.e., it's *still* posted up to YouTube)

Such *is* the $oka Gakkai CULT ORG. (and the mentality of many of its members).