Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: April 04, 2013 08:57AM

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sleepy skunk
I should also mention I found my only shakabukus and I apologized for potentially getting them into a bad situation. I feel quite a lot better since I've done so, like I've restored the balance in the universe somehow. I really did worry about that for the last while. The good thing is they never mentioned that they ever went to a meeting when I talked to them. I don't feel I'm quite square and wonder if they'd forgive me but that is up to them I guess.

I know exactly how you feel and can relate. Thank goodness nobody ever joined, because of me. I never was one who was much for the "shakubuku, shakubuku, shakubuku" at all cost mentality. I always felt that people had an inherent right and freedom to choose for themselves what they wanted to do, without any arm twisting or pressure tactics. People knew what I was (I thought I was "Buddhist"), but that's as far as I ever took it. If they asked for details, I would share, but again, it was just a simple discussion between individuals from different backgrounds with neither one of us trying to convert the other, just learning from each other.

I always felt that the cult org. obsession with "shakubuku" (converting others) at all costs was a sign of desperation, and the guilt and power trips that "leaders" would dump on the membership for the numbers game, disgusting manipulation. I never subscribed to the, "you have to practice, or else ...." mind games others used.

I have pangs of regret, however, for any of the naive and innocent "YOUTH!" that I may have "encouraged" (cult-speak) or influenced by my example when I was in. Whenever I run into gakkai members who knew me, I sometimes throw the comment out, "Do you realize, that you are in a Cult?" One of two reactions usually follow (there is no in between):

1. Anger and vehement denial, that of course they aren't.

or

2. Shock, mouth falling open and stunned silence, not knowing what to say.

The first category of people have their mental door tightly shut to reality. There's no getting thru.

The second category have their door a bit ajar and can sometimes hear reality knocking. If they are receptive, I may kick a thought into the open door about something, and sometimes they may even bring it up again someday and say, "do you really think that ... [insert that thought I implanted into their head] ... is true?" Without hesitation I reply, "Yep." Then, once again, contemplative silence and maybe the subject is changed. I'm always hopeful for this second category of people.


- Hitch

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: TaitenAndProud ()
Date: April 04, 2013 09:08AM

There have been a couple of studies of doomsday cults (and don't kid yourself - the SGI, with all its talk of "the Evil Latter Day of the Law" and the "Time of Kosen-rufu" DEFINITELY falls into this category). One of them took the form of a book - you can read about it here, it's called "When Prophecy Fails": [en.wikipedia.org]

Key points:
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Festinger stated that five conditions must be present if someone is to become a more fervent believer after a failure or disconfirmation:

A belief must be held with deep conviction and it must have some relevance to action, that is, to what the believer does or how he behaves.

The person holding the belief must have committed himself to it; that is, for the sake of his belief, he must have taken some important action that is difficult to undo. In general, the more important such actions are, and the more difficult they are to undo, the greater is the individual's commitment to the belief.

The belief must be sufficiently specific and sufficiently concerned with the real world so that events may unequivocally refute the belief.

Such undeniable disconfirmatory evidence must occur and must be recognized by the individual holding the belief.

The individual believer must have social support. It is unlikely that one isolated believer could withstand the kind of disconfirming evidence that has been specified. If, however, the believer is a member of a group of convinced persons who can support one another, the belief may be maintained and the believers may attempt to proselytize or persuade nonmembers that the belief is correct.

Gee, let's see - voluntary humiliation that isolates the believer within the cult - check! Fewer people (if any) receiving gohonzons - check! Members dropping out - check!

A more recent case study involved looneytunes Rev. Harold Camping, that old nutbag who declared that the world would end in May (or June - whatever) 2011:

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That warning turned out to be a false alarm. No giant earthquake rippled across the surface of the earth, nor were any believers caught up in the clouds. Harold Camping, the octogenarian whose nightly Bible call-in show fomented doomsday mania, suffered a stroke soon afterward and mostly disappeared from sight. The press coverage, which had been intense in the weeks leading up to May 21, 2011, dwindled to nothing. The story, as far as most people were concerned, was over.

But I wanted to know what happens next. If you’re absolutely sure the world is going to end on a specific day, and it doesn’t, what do you do? How do you explain it to yourself? What happens to your faith in God? Can you just scrape the bumper stickers off your car, throw away the t-shirts, and move on?

In order to find out, I got to know a dozen or so believers prior to the scheduled apocalypse. I sat at their kitchen tables, attended their meetings, tagged along on trips to Wal-Mart, ate pizza in their hotel rooms, spent hours with them on the phone. Then, after Jesus was a no-show, I stayed in contact with them—the ones who would talk to me, anyway—over the following days and months, checking back in to see how or if their thinking had changed.

I learned a lot about the seductive power of radical belief, the inscrutable vagaries of biblical interpretation, and how our minds can shape reality to fit a narrative. I also learned that you don’t have to be nuts to believe something crazy.

“I Can’t Afford to Doubt”

On the night of October 22, 1844, they huddled in a barn in Port Gibson, New York. They stood by the graves of their departed loved ones in Sugar Hill, New Hampshire. In Cincinnati, Ohio, 2,000 of them walked through downtown and climbed a hill to a park overlooking the city. Inside homes, on rooftops, in fields, alone or en masse, they waited for God.

These were devotees of William Miller, the prosperous farmer turned self-taught biblical scholar. It’s impossible to know for sure how many people he persuaded that the world was ending; estimates range from 50,000 to one million. Anyone who read a newspaper at the time would have been familiar with Miller’s prognostications. Along with those who identified publicly as Millerites, there must have been many more who privately took his warnings to heart.

More than a century later, a young social psychologist named Leon Festinger took an interest in the Millerites. What intrigued Festinger was why the failure of Miller’s multiple prophecies had done little to discourage the faithful. Miller had predicted the end of the world more than once. The end of the world hadn’t come. Shouldn’t that have been enough? Festinger wrote the following in his 1956 classic, When Prophecy Fails: “Although there is a limit beyond which belief will not withstand disconfirmation, it is clear that the introduction of contrary evidence can serve to increase the conviction and enthusiasm of a believer.”

When the world failed to end, they clung more tightly to their belief. Rather than folding, they doubled down. [www.religiondispatches.org]
We saw that same reaction from the Republican party in the US, when their candidate Romney lost big-time to that awful (insert insulting name for a dark-skinned person here). Many in the party felt that their error was in not being extreme *enough*! Let's continue:

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May 21 believers couldn’t afford to doubt either. Whenever I met one, I would ask: Is there any chance you might be wrong? Could someone have miscalculated, misunderstood a verse, botched a symbol? Just maybe?

I asked this question of a believer in his mid-twenties. He started listening to Harold Camping’s radio show in college and immediately went out, bought a Bible, and immersed himself in it. After graduation, he took a job as an engineer at a Fortune 500 company; a job he loved and a job he quit because he thought the world was ending. He wrote the following in his resignation letter: “With less than three months to the day of Christ’s return, I desire to spend more time studying the Bible and sounding the trumpet warning of this imminent judgment.”

He would not entertain the possibility, even hypothetically, that the date could be off. “This isn’t a prediction because a prediction has a potential for failure,” he told me.

“Even if it’s 99.9 percent, that extra .1 percent makes it not certain. It’s like the weather. If it’s 60 percent, it may or may not rain. But in this case we’re saying 100 percent it will come. God with a consuming fire is coming to bring judgment and destroy the world.”

I encountered this same certainty again and again. When I asked how they could be so sure, the answers were fuzzy. It wasn’t any one particular verse or chapter but rather the evidence as a whole. Some believers compared it to a puzzle. At first the pieces are spread out on a table, just shards of color, fragments of meaning. Then you assemble, piece by piece, finding a corner here, a connection there, until you begin to make out a portion of the picture, a glimpse of the scene. Finally, you only have a few pieces left and it’s obvious where they go.

A psychologist might call this confirmation bias, that is, the tendency to accept only evidence that confirms what you already believe, to search for pieces that fit your puzzle. We’re all guilty of it at times. But that label doesn’t fully explain the willingness to suspend disbelief: Believers selectively accepted evidence that caused them to quit their jobs, alienate friends and family, and stand on street corners absorbing abuse from passers-by. There is something else going on.

So we're in the "EeeeeEEEEvil Latter Day of the Law," right? The time period when *no one* has ever made any good causes in any previous lifetime (that's Nichiren doctrine, BTW - SGI members don't like to hear it) and when Nichiren wrote, in "On the Buddha's Prophecy": Now in the Latter Day of the Law, the teaching remains, but there is neither practice nor proof. Really, Nick? No practice nor proof? Then they're all doin it rong, rite???

From that same gosho: "The people will be full of hostility, and it will be extremely difficult to believe."

Gee, then doesn't that make all the members just so very *special*????

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Not that believers didn’t have their doubts in the beginning. Everyone I talked to assured me that they, too, weren’t sure at first. But after a certain point, maybe without consciously realizing it, they made a decision to abandon those doubts, to choose to believe. A young mother tried to help me understand the evidence before throwing up her hands. “It’s about the believers and the unbelievers, you know?” she said.

“They’ve been around forever and as much as we’re positive, there are going to be people who are going to question it because they don’t believe, if you know what I mean? If you believed it you’d be as sure as I am.”

um...duh?

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What happened after May 21 matches up fairly closely with what scholars of apocalyptic groups would expect. The so-called disconfirmation was not enough to undermine the faith of many believers. From what I can tell, those who had less invested in the prophecy were more likely to simply give up and return to normal life. Meanwhile, those who had risked almost everything seemed determined to reframe the prophecy, to search the scriptures, to hang on to the hope that the end might be nigh.

I was struck by how some believers edited the past in order to avoid acknowledging that they had been mistaken. The engineer in his mid-twenties, the one who told me this was a prophecy rather than a prediction, maintained that he had never claimed to be certain about May 21. When I read him the transcript of our previous interview, he seemed genuinely surprised that those words had come out of his mouth. It was as if we were discussing a dream he couldn’t quite remember.

Other believers had no trouble recalling what they now viewed as an enormous embarrassment. Once October came and went without incident, the father of three was finished. “After October 22, I said ‘You know what? I think I was part of a cult,’” he told me. His main concern was how his sons, who were old enough to understand what was going on, would deal with everything: “My wife and I joke that when my kids get older they’re going to say that we’re the crazy parents who believed the world was going to end.”

In the beginning, I was curious how believers would react, as if they were mice in a maze. But as time went on I grew to like and sympathize with many of them. This failed prophecy caused real harm, financially and emotionally. What was a curiosity for the rest of us was, for them, traumatic. And it’s important to remember that mainstream Christians also believe that God’s son will play a return engagement, beam up his bona fide followers, and leave the wretched remainder to suffer unspeakable torment. They’re just not sure when.

Among those I came to know and like was a gifted young musician. Because he was convinced the world was ending, he had abandoned music, quit his job, and essentially put his life on hold for four years. It had cost him friends and created a rift between some members of his family. He couldn’t have been more committed.

In a recent email, he wrote that he had “definitely lost an incredible amount of faith” and hadn’t touched his Bible in months. These days he’s not sure what or whether to believe. “It makes me wonder just how malleable our minds can be. It all seemed so real, like it made so much sense, but it wasn’t right,” he wrote. “It leaves a lot to think about.”
I think I can empathize with his comment :/ Been there, done that, you know?? How many of us chanted hours upon hours, and DIDN'T get what we wanted? Then were persuaded to blame *ourselves* per the gosho The Three Kinds of Treasure: But if you depart from my advice even slightly, do not blame me for what may happen. And from The 3 Obstacles and the 4 Devils gosho: This time I am sure that you will give up your faith. If you do, I have not the slightest intention of reproaching you for it. Likewise, neither should you blame me, Nichiren, when you have fallen into hell. It is in no way my responsibility.

Yep - all OUR faults when the magic chant fails. We must try harder!!!!! (Remember??)

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"When a trout rising to a fly gets hooked on a line and finds himself unable to swim about freely, he begins with a fight which results in struggles and splashes and sometimes an escape. Often, of course, the situation is too tough for him.

In the same way the human being struggles with his environment and with the hooks that catch him. Sometimes he masters his difficulties; sometimes they are too much for him. His struggles are all that the world sees and it naturally misunderstands them. It is hard for a free fish to understand what is happening to a hooked one."
– Karl A. Menninger, mental health pioneer


Ho ho - if you're interested, there's someone called "Yoda" posting on this Buddhist board who states, among other pithy comments: Ah. That. Well, I don't mean to dampen anyone's spirits, but I don't consider Nichiren Daishonin's teachings to be particularly Buddhist. "Chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and you will get what you want", isn't that how it goes? [www.boards.ie] :D LOL!!!

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Spartacus ()
Date: April 04, 2013 09:43AM

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TaitenAndProud
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Looks like this is the same San Antonio kaikan where I took to the mike to redress the culties almost 20 years ago. At last, I had grown courageous enough to speak the truth about the inequalities and unfair practices of the SG cult. As I read from a lengthy pre-prepared speech, I watched the crowd's agitation rising like a rocket. They began to seeth with anger as I continued my verbal reprimand of Gakkai rules and policies. Near the end of my statement, I could see some of the members struggling to keep themselves seated and their rage contained. I could sense how the audacity of my telling the unadulterated truth about the cult had brought me very close to being physically attacked. Culties do not want to hear about anything that does not conform to their pre-programed cult reality. It can be dangerous to step inside and stir the hornet's nest. But now I'm very happy that I did speak out against the cult at that old kaikan that I unwittingly donated so much of my precious time and energy to.
Spartacus, did you happen to save a transcript of your remarks? I would LOVE to see it!!

No, those rebel-rousing hand written pages of dissent are long gone - lost to history. Some of my points were: undemocratic leadership appointments, harrassment of YD leaders, no disclosure of financial info, extremely limited kaikan access, invasion of personal privacy, and overbearing authoritarian leadership attitudes and actions. There was more, but I can't recall it all as nearly 20 years have passed.

Interestingly, I found a paper on the desk in the leader's office after that meeting with notes about me on it. Apparently, the notes had been left on the desk by the leaders after having made a phone report to HQ about my rebellious action. There was nothing regarding the substance of my speech, but there were lots of negative names and remarks that were made about me. How dare I speak out against the organization! Their main problem was how to control/punish me - I had long refused to accept any position, leaving the cult with no leverage over me. I'm sure they were relieved when I decided to stay clear of their madness instead of continuing to incite any more doubts about the cult with the sheeple, uh, I meant members.

There was so much fear and anger being generated toward me! I have sometimes wondered if my having put on several karate demonstrations (I have a collection of blackbelt certifications) for big culture meetings at the kaikan had served as an effective deterrent against physical attacks against me that day. Maybe - but for sure, there was a lot of intense fear and anger!

I really like this quote, "The truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself."

Spartacus

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Spartacus ()
Date: April 04, 2013 10:55AM

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TaitenAndProud
Say, I think we've sort of talked about it, but I'd like to review this idea in some more depth (I'm thinking of YOU, corboy and Spartacus). Do you think that cults deliberately prod their members to engage in embarrassing, socially unacceptable behaviors (like the wild and ridiculous fist-pumping song leading of NSA YMD, or the dressing-all-the-children in matching uniforms of Quiverfull, or the FLDS dresses (see below)) because doing those things not only ostracizes them from society (and makes them more dependent upon the cult for social support) but also requires a deliberate choice to go with the cult, no matter what, instead of seeing themselves as part of society as a whole?

FLDS women: [www.highlighthollywood.com]

Seen in the nearby Wal-Mart parking lot (again): [i129.photobucket.com]

Is there a human reaction that gains strength by being rejected by others? There must be, otherwise we wouldn't find so many cults saying the equivalent of "Everybody hates us because we're right."


Here's my two cents, Taiten. Yes, of course they push members into altered states. It is all about brainwashing. Following commands (suggestions) to act (or think) in a manner that would not be natural for that individual creates mind control. Participating in ludicris behavior (even by just watching) draws one into the group hypnosis created by outrageous or unexpected behavior. Mushy brains are more susceptable to the power of suggestion, the modis operandi of cults.

Perceived persecution (real or not) promotes group bonding among the "victims", and reinforces the cult mindset of us vs them. Any person or idea from outside of the cult group is perceived as a "threat".

All cults are bad, but some are worse about taking it to the extreme. From an article [intellihub.com] about the cult known as Scientology:

Jenna Miscavige Hill (born 1984) is a former Scientologist who, after leaving the Church of Scientology in 2005, has become an outspoken critic of the organization. She is the daughter of Ron Miscavige, Jr. and the niece of current church leader David Miscavige.

In 2000, when Hill was 16, her father and mother left Scientology. Hill states that due to the Scientology-ordered practice of disconnection with relatives and friends who don’t support Scientology or are hostile to it, letters from her parents were intercepted and she was not allowed to answer a telephone for a year.

She described her experience from ages five to 12 as this: “We were also required to write down all transgressions …similar to a sin in the Catholic religion. After writing them all down, we would receive a meter check on the electropsychometer to make sure we weren’t hiding anything, and you would have to keep writing until you came up clean.”

Jenna was the third generation of Scientologists in her family and grew up on a compound in California. At the age of seven, she was admitted to the “Sea Organisation” (Sea Org) – the executive branch of Scientology’s most dedicated followers.

She was made to sign a billion-year contract that bound her immortal spirit (known as the “Thetan”) to lifetime after lifetime of dedication to the organisation.

“Looking back I feel completely brainwashed. I didn’t even know what I liked or what sort of person I was. I was just a robot of the church.”

Jenna says that she was made to incur several hours a day of gruelling labour from the age of six until she was 12.

“We wore uniforms and would be digging trench holes for irrigation and rock hauling. We would be doing 25 hours of heavy-duty labour a week. My hands were always full of blisters.”

Any dissent from the group could result in a bucket of ice water thrown over their heads or “pigs berthing” – spending the night on an old mattress in a dilapidated room filled with bats.

Those who resisted authority were declared “suppressives” and cast out.

Jenna became isolated from the outside world. She was taught that non-Scientologists (referred to as Wogs – Well and Orderly Gentleman) were ignorant.

Jenna’s testimony paints a picture of mistrust and suspicion sowed among the students by the leaders, urging them to tell on each others’ misdemeanours or else be considered an “accessory” and face the same punishments.

Jenna explains that any violation of rules could result in offenders being sent to the Orwellian-sounding Rehabilitation Project Force.

“It was like a reprogramming camp for inmates who strayed in an attempt to bring them back into line. Offenders could be sent to a segregated location in the base for at least two years.”

Jenna’s parents left the church when she was 16, though she decided to stay on.

“By that time, I didn’t know my parents. I thought that my life and world was always going to be the church. The idea of leaving at that time was just scary to me.” Jenna stayed on.


So much of her experience sounds terribly familiar. One of the most common cult techniques involves an individual's personal identity being replaced with "group identiy". The only difference between Scientology and Soka Gakkai is that the former is a "cult on steriods". Cults operate just the same, the only difference being the intensity of the brainwashing and bleeding. Religion has been used as a tool of power and greed by cult organizations large and small thoughout human history, the Catholic church being a prime example. As usual, just "follow the money" - it leads to the real truth about the accumulation of power and wealth by religions and cults.

Spartacus

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: TaitenAndProud ()
Date: April 04, 2013 11:16AM

I've read about Jenna Miscavige Hill's case - it's very sad. Something else that they do in Sea Org is put the kids out to sea on a barge of some sort, where they are put in cold, dank, filthy "solitary confinement" in the hold if they don't please their masters - I mean "leaders." L. Ron Hubbard also started the practice of throwing members overboard - often blindfolded and partially bound - if they did not meet his requirements. How terrifying!

I am so glad Katie Holmes left Tom Cruise and took their daughter - he was all gung ho for her to be put in the full-time indoctrination at the age of 6.

I'm shocked when I hear of 3rd generation Scientologists - or 5th generation Gakkai-ists! [www.sfgate.com] <-- It's the She-Hitch!!

I don't know of *anyone* who was born into a gakkai family over here in the states who continued practicing into adulthood - I think that's more of a Japanese thing. The only "fortune baby" I knew of who was still practicing as an adult was my friend, the Japanese ex-pat.
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For example, the actress Priscilla Presley, who joined Scientology in the 1970s, raised her daughter, Lisa Marie, in the church; the British writer and graphic novelist Neil Gaiman, who currently maintains that he is not a practicing Scientologist, was nonetheless brought up in Scientology, at the church's worldwide headquarters. Other famous second-generation Scientologists include the actors Juliette Lewis, Elizabeth Moss, Giovanni Ribisi, and Danny Masterson, who introduced the faith to his girlfriend, the model Bijou Phillips, and to his former costar on That Seventies Show, Lauren Prepon. [www.nytimes.com]

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: TaitenAndProud ()
Date: April 04, 2013 11:23AM

One of the things about the SGI is its obsession with "youth". That's why they like Danny Nagashima so much - the Gakkai leadership views his manic capering as "youthful". That's why you'll see President Ikeda behaving like a monkey sometimes - that's what apparently passes, in Japanese eyes, for "youthful exuberance and energy".

Nowhere within the SGI do you find the image of the sage, wise elder, such as the Dalai Lama. No, in the SGI, leaders are supposed to dance around and sit bolt upright and always appear *electrified* for NMRK!!

I remember a French YWD, whom I'd met when she was studying in Minnesota where I was a YWD leader. We both moved away but we kept in touch. When the "rhythm" in the US was to make the district meetings "the cultural highlight of the week" (remember??), she told me that they didn't have that guideline in France. They already had *plenty* of "culture"! THEY were supposed to focus on "youthful energy" instead!

It's decidedly weird - and immature. The movements that gain respect have a sensible, thoughtful, reliable leader who inspires trust in people both within and without whatever organization it is. That's why Daisaku Ikeda wants to force himself in the middle of Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. THEY both are that kind of leader; Ikeda is *not* and I'm sure it gnaws away at his petty ego, inspiring him to ever more grandiose grandstanding and self-glorification.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: April 04, 2013 01:19PM

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TaitenAndProud
I don't know of *anyone* who was born into a gakkai family over here in the states who continued practicing into adulthood - I think that's more of a Japanese thing.

A handful of us (or less) (mis)fortune babies that I personally knew and grew up with, all got out. They did the brief obligatory stints in the YMD, like me, but in every case, we all gradually drifted away and out of the gakkai cult org. beyond high school and into early adulthood. (Of all the YWD I knew and practiced with, I believe most are still chained to the gakkai cult org.. to this day.)

BUT, I also know of a few others (two were my age and the other a bit younger) - all (mis)fortune babies - who never "practiced" hard and were never what I would call really "into" it, who are now hardcore Ikeda-bots. In every single case, there was a severe life stressor event that triggered them into true believer mode. One of the people I know, are now even a salaried gakkai cult org. leader. The most unsettling thing that I find about each of them, without exception, is that they ALL have that same generic cookie-cutter, artificial, bubbly personality, fake Disneyland-like pasted smile and that very palpable air of smug, arrogant, certainty and authority about them. The one who incorporated this pseudo-personality the best, is of course the salaried cult leader.

I also see on YouTube, several others whom I knew by face, different area (mis)fortune-babies, who now still look to be very deeply into the gakkai cult org. (I've noticed them in some of the FNCC cult retreat gatherings clips).

Many, but not all, have Japanese-American (or partial) ancestry. Plus, let's be honest, if you are Japanese, you are much more easily accepted, trusted and assimilated into the gakkai cult org. borg collective.

I must say, I'm really glad I fell into the category of (mis)fortune-babies who "practiced" sooner and got out later, rather than the other way around.


- Hitch

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: April 04, 2013 02:39PM

Just read the $cientology, Astra Woodcraft piece. She keeps saying things that I said about the $oka Gakkai (N$A) CultOrg. growing up in it:

"I hated it."

"It's ridiculous."

""If you're not raised in [it], this all sounds *crazy. But when you're brought up in it, it's all you know," she said. "You think there's something wrong with you for wanting to leave."

Read more: [www.sfgate.com]

*Crazy = the magic chant, the magic paper scroll, "Forever Sensei" songs, 5 story human pyramid towers, white milkman/Saturday Night Fever uniforms, brass band Libery-Minute-Man costumes with tri-cornered hats, "AAO!", "HAI!!!", caucasian members speaking like English as a second language people with Japanese accents, sansho-shima devils hiding around every corner, daimoku charts, "determinations", "experiences", going to complete (ignorant) strangers for "guidance", chanting as a group into a corner (or facing the head temple, when in Japan) especially before big "meetings", having to do the ritual and superstitious prayers twice a day (30 minutes in the morning, 15-20 in the evening), everyday of your life, PLUS "abundant" daimoku (extra magic chant), chanting tosos (marathon 24-48 sessions) . . . . . . . . and I could go on and on.

Yup. I can definitely relate.


- Hitch

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: April 04, 2013 06:47PM

Gakkai Cult Steppenwolf --> "Born To Be Lions."

"Get your motor running
With fighting Daimoku
United with our Mentor
Time to do Shakubuku
Yeah Sensei will make it happen
Second act of Kosen-Rufu
Inside the ranks of Bodhisattvas
That's what we'll do"

"Like a true Buddha's son
We were born, born to be lions
Like I say, so high, we are Higher Than the Sky
Born to be Lions"

Jamming for Cousin Rufus Gonyo [www.youtube.com]

The gakkai cult hack performers, play on. The gakkai cult loves its "young lions" theme, always has. It's one of those cult labels drilled into the "YOUTH!" division, all the time.


- Hitch

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: rattyboy ()
Date: April 04, 2013 08:46PM

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sleepy skunk
I should also mention I found my only shakabukus and I apologized for potentially getting them into a bad situation. I feel quite a lot better since I've done so, like I've restored the balance in the universe somehow. I really did worry about that for the last while. The good thing is they never mentioned that they ever went to a meeting when I talked to them. I don't feel I'm quite square and wonder if they'd forgive me but that is up to them I guess.
I have trouble using that word 'shakabukus' to describe the friends that I took to meetings. These days it bothers me, of course, but it bothered me when I was"in". I saw friends laughing with members at introductory meetings and seeming to have a great time but would invariably ask me later, sometimes the next day or in the car ride home: " Is that a cult?".
I'm grateful to those potential shakabukus for being honest in their search for meaning while I did my best to skirt the issues. - well, lets not be that hard on myself- we've discussed at length the sneaky machinations that keep one involved - and I was critical along the way. Giving the SGI the benefit of the doubt, severe doubt , was some misguided bodhisattva mission within the rest of it.

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