Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: TaitenAndProud ()
Date: March 30, 2013 01:27PM

I've noticed something - people who believe strongly that whatever they believe is extremely beneficial to them like to tell other people about it. Frequently. (I've got a Christian acquaintance seizing every opportunity to tell me how she relies on God for every step etc. etc. yadda yadda yadda - ugh *eye roll* What, she thinks I've never been exposed to Christianity????) It's as if they think, "How could anyone hear how wonderful this is for me and not want to try it for themselves?? And then, if they just *try it* for even a few minutes, they won't want to stop!" I remember thinking that myself when I was in thrall to the SGcult - and it never failed to surprise me when there would be guests at a meeting and TERRIFIC experiences, but the guests would never be seen again!

I think that this excerpt from an article about how Shin Buddhism, often said to be most similar to Christianity though it actually isn't at all, really sums the situation up well:
Quote

Christians believe that all people in the world must accept Christ, and missionaries undergo all sorts of hardship to bring the gospel of Jesus to all mankind. Christians "have a story to tell to the nations." They go to teach and elevate people.

Shin missionaries, on the other hand, go out to seek people who have similar opinions to their own. They invite them to join them in their activities. Shin regards entrance into the Hongwanji as a union of attitudes. The basis of these religious attitudes lies in one's past experiences. No amount of arguing or teaching can bring these attitudes about without there having been the necessary conditioning experiences in one's past.

Shin does not believe that everyone will or must become a Shin follower. It is said that Sakya taught 84,000 different doctrinal systems so that there might be one suited to each possible kind of human personality. Shin, as one of these many doctrines, will find kindred spirits in every country of the world, but were any one country even -let alone the whole world- to follow Shin alone, it would be a sure sign that Shin is not a true doctrine.

With regard to conversion, then, Christianity and Shin are quite different. Christianity finds evidence of its truth in the fact that all people will accept it. Shin takes universal acceptance as a sign of not being a true doctrine. [www.seattlebetsuin.com]
That's the Amida/Nembutsu sect, in case you don't recognize it as Shin, one of the rival schools of Buddhism which Nichiren had no shortage of horrible things to say about. In fact, by comparison to the SGI, the Amida school sounds downright sensible! It wouldn't have *millions* of devotees if it were as bad as Nichiren said it was, now would it??

I think that too many people in our society aren't able to accept the possibility of "magic chant" to change reality. Being educated tends to have that effect. They understand that, if you want something to change, you need to get off your ASS and start making some changes! I suppose there have been guests who want to believe they can get something for (effectively) nothing, but I think they quickly realize there is no magical money tree hiding in their starter butsudans. I wanted to believe, and I had been intensively indoctrinated into Evangelical Christianity as a small child, so I had been "programmed" to think that the rules of reality could be "gamed" or "bent" if one simply asked nicely enough.

Remember how I told you that one former YWD HQ leader was telling us all at a Soka Spirit meeting that she'd introduced over 400 people to this practice over the last 20 years - and TWO (2) of them were still practicing? She then went on to say that the Daishonin's seminal work, the Rissho Ankoku Ron, wasn't well received by the Powers That Be in Japanese government at the time because the Daishonin was awkward and inexperienced - he hadn't yet gained enough experience to skillfully and effectively "sell" his ideas to the rich and powerful. That perspective was not well received. I don't believe she ever spoke at a major meeting again. Imagine, saying *out loud* that the Daishonin wasn't perfect! What was she THINKING????

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Hitch ()
Date: March 30, 2013 02:03PM

$GI CULT informercial, made voluntarily (?) by a cult member eager to do "shakubuku", save other people and change his own karma. It reminds me of those con-men self-motivation speakers who promise to deliver all the secrets of "hope, courage, confidence, & unshakeable happiness" to you, for "free." "It won't cost you a dime, not one penny." Only 30 minutes a day of the magic chant. Yeah right.
[www.youtube.com]

****

And this looks to be another voluntary upload, this time of perhaps an ex-$GI cult member, who has cult hopped to another similar cult (JMO) and still regards Williams-Sadanaga as his "hero." Virtual daimoku (magic chant, sansho, etc.) for the U.S.A. gakkai cult org. mini-master-boss of the olden days.
[www.youtube.com]

There is no end to the wishful and magical thinking, is there.



- Hitch

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: TaitenAndProud ()
Date: March 30, 2013 03:16PM

Hey, from the sidebar to the right of your first video, there was Part 1 of 3 about "President Ikeda's Death Spiral" - it's some priestly looking Japanese man talking about the SG and stuff - looks pretty fun!

[www.youtube.com]

Anybody know who Zynkyoku Haku is? "I will now draw noodles on the board! Is everyone hungry?"

Given how the SGI is *completely* focused on Daisaku Ikeda, just WHAT THE HELL is going to happen when he dies?? It's a complete cult of personality; will he then be deified and continue to be referred to as the "ideal mentor in life" or whatever twaddle they're spewing about him??

Or is he going to go "into seclusion" and never be seen again? With his death announced posthumously, perhaps "discovered" in, I dunno, 50 years or so? I remember reading a while back that - you know how Japan has a reputation for having some of the world's oldest people? Well, in a *lot* of these cases, the oldster in question actually *died*, but the heirs hid the body and continued collecting that person's pension etc., so the government thought s/he was still alive and very old!
Quote

Japan has long boasted of having many of the world’s oldest people — testament, many here say, to a society with a superior diet and a commitment to its elderly that is unrivaled in the West.

That was before the police found the body of a man thought to be one of Japan’s oldest, at 111 years, mummified in his bed, dead for more than three decades. His daughter, now 81, hid his death to continue collecting his monthly pension payments, the police said.

Alarmed, local governments began sending teams to check on other elderly residents. What they found so far has been anything but encouraging.

A woman thought to be Tokyo’s oldest, who would be 113, was last seen in the 1980s. Another woman, who would be the oldest in the world at 125, is also missing, and probably has been for a long time. When city officials tried to visit her at her registered address, they discovered that the site had been turned into a city park, in 1981.

To date, the authorities have been unable to find more than 281 Japanese who had been listed in records as 100 years old or older. Facing a growing public outcry, the country’s health minister, Akira Nagatsuma, said officials would meet with every person listed as 110 or older to verify that they are alive; Tokyo officials made the same promise for the 3,000 or so residents listed as 100 and up.

The national hand-wringing over the revelations has reached such proportions that the rising toll of people missing has merited daily, and mournful, media coverage. “Is this the reality of a longevity nation?” lamented an editorial last week in The Mainichi newspaper, one of Japan’s biggest dailies.

Among those who officials have confirmed is alive: a 113-year-old woman in the southern prefecture of Saga believed to be the country’s oldest person, at least for now.

The soul-searching over the missing old people has hit this rapidly graying country — and tested its sense of self — when it is already grappling with overburdened care facilities for the elderly, criminal schemes that prey on them and the nearly daily discovery of old people who have died alone in their homes.

For the moment, there are no clear answers about what happened to most of the missing centenarians. Is the country witnessing the results of pension fraud on a large scale, or, as most officials maintain, was most of the problem a result of sloppy record keeping? Or was the whole sordid affair, as the gloomiest commentators here are saying, a reflection of disintegrating family ties, as an indifferent younger generation lets its elders drift away into obscurity?

“This is a type of abandonment, through disinterest,” said Hiroshi Takahashi, a professor at the International University of Health and Welfare in Tokyo. “Now we see the reality of aging in a more urbanized society where communal bonds are deteriorating.”

Officials here tend to play down the psychosocial explanations. While some older people may have simply moved into care facilities, they say, there is a growing suspicion that, as in the case of the mummified corpse, many may already have died.

Officials in the Adachi ward of Tokyo, where the body was found, said they grew suspicious after trying to pay a visit to the man, Sogen Kato. (They were visiting him because the man previously thought to be Tokyo’s oldest had died and they wished to congratulate Mr. Kato on his new status.)

They said his daughter gave conflicting excuses, saying at first that he did not want to meet them, and then that he was elsewhere in Japan giving Buddhist sermons. The police moved in after a granddaughter, who also shared the house, admitted that Mr. Kato had not emerged from his bedroom since about 1978.

In a more typical case that took place just blocks from the Mr. Kato’s house, relatives of a man listed as 103 years old said he had left home 38 years ago and never returned. The man’s son, now 73, told officials that he continued to collect his father’s pension “in case he returned one day.”

“No one really suspects foul play in these cases,” said Manabu Hajikano, director of Adachi’s resident registration section. “But it is still a crime if you fail to report a disappearance or death in order to collect pension money.”

Some health experts say these cases reflect strains in a society that expects children to care for their parents, instead of placing them in care facilities. They point out that longer life spans mean that children are called upon to take care of their elderly parents at a time when the children are reaching their 70s and are possibly in need of care themselves.

In at least some of the cases, local officials have said, an aged parent disappeared after leaving home under murky circumstances. Experts say that the parents appeared to have suffered from dementia or some other condition that made their care too demanding, and the overburdened family members simply gave up, failing to chase after the elderly people or report their disappearance to the police.

While the authorities have turned up a large number of missing centenarians, demographic experts say they doubt that discoveries of the living or the dead would have much impact on Japan’s vaunted life expectancy figures; the country has the world’s highest life expectancy — nearly 83 years — according to the World Bank. But officials admit that Japan may have far fewer centenarians than it thought.

“Living until 150 years old is impossible in the natural world,” said Akira Nemoto, director of the elderly services section of the Adachi ward office. “But it is not impossible in the world of Japanese public administration.” [www.nytimes.com]
Ugh >.< So there's a cultural precedent for it O_O

Regardless of the ick factor, it's a better plan than moving ol' pasty flabbo Hiromasa into the international presidency!

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: TaitenAndProud ()
Date: March 30, 2013 03:18PM

Quote

And this looks to be another voluntary upload, this time of perhaps an ex-$GI cult member, who has cult hopped to another similar cult (JMO) and still regards Williams-Sadanaga as his "hero." Virtual daimoku (magic chant, sansho, etc.) for the U.S.A. gakkai cult org. mini-master-boss of the olden days. [www.youtube.com]
Great O_O Virtual daimoku toso. Just great O_O

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 30, 2013 08:55PM

Taiten, since you have background, both personal, and familial, in missionary Christianity, here's a question.

Do evangelizers feel any sort of 'rush' when uttering the words or catchphrases associated with testifying or witnessing?

Quote

I've noticed something - people who believe strongly that whatever they believe is extremely beneficial to them like to tell other people about it. Frequently. (I've got a Christian acquaintance seizing every opportunity to tell me how she relies on God for every step etc. etc. yadda yadda yadda

I am wondering whether uttering the words has some kind of self soothing effect for the person doing the 'witnessing' and that the presences of the other person doesnt actually matter--is just a pretext.

That may be what you and others find annoying--that our presence might be a trigger for someone to utter a favorite set of phrases, and who we are as persons doesnt actually matter(?)

I am thinking again of Marc Lewis telling us that 'dopamine provides thrust'. Perhaps uttering the phrases associated with outreach, whether its SGI or another group is a way to stir up dopamine in whoever is doing the 'witnessing'. (?)

If someone else comes along who shares the formula utterance, then one gets not only the dopamine thrust but the opioid soothing of social bonding. (?)

Now that so many talks are captured on video, they could keep Ikeda's image in place for a long time, even if he is incapacitated in any way.

What you have mentioned about the check cashing going undetected in Japan because people live so very long--that is fascinating. And scary.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Spartacus ()
Date: March 30, 2013 09:19PM

Quote
Hitch
The celebration at a "grand reopening" of a $GI CULT pseudo-buddhist community center [www.youtube.com].

Now, I ask you, where exactly is the "buddhism"?? All I see is bizarre cult-like behavior. I never saw anything like this when I was in the gakkai cult org.. This is completely unrecognizable to me. It just keeps getting weirder and weirder.

- Hitch


This was an unexpected surprise. So the San Antonio CC has transformed into a "Buddhist Center". HA! Looks like just a remodel of the old kaikan, which was originally a leased property. Perhaps the SGcult purchased the building, or maybe they just needed a tax write-off - oops, almost forgot - they don't pay any taxes, because it's supposed to be a "church". Well, all that money goes... somewhere? (trickles up to the top - magically). It only comes back down when it benefits the cult organization.

Looks like this is the same San Antonio kaikan where I took to the mike to redress the culties almost 20 years ago. At last, I had grown courageous enough to speak the truth about the inequalities and unfair practices of the SG cult. As I read from a lengthy pre-prepared speech, I watched the crowd's agitation rising like a rocket. They began to seeth with anger as I continued my verbal reprimand of Gakkai rules and policies. Near the end of my statement, I could see some of the members struggling to keep themselves seated and their rage contained. I could sense how the audacity of my telling the unadulterated truth about the cult had brought me very close to being physically attacked. Culties do not want to hear about anything that does not conform to their pre-programed cult reality. It can be dangerous to step inside and stir the hornet's nest. But now I'm very happy that I did speak out against the cult at that old kaikan that I unwittingly donated so much of my precious time and energy to.

The first frame of the video opens on a band playing. BAM! The dark haired guy with a pony tail playing the bass guitar - he's one of my old shakaubuku. He and I played music uncountable times for gakkai activities in SA over the years, and there he is, still hanging around with the cult (its difficult for him to wake up, especially with his catholic upbringing.) Maybe someday he will finally awaken and begin to grasp how the SG is nothing but a cult, but i'm not holding my breath 'cause he's been hooked for almost 30 years now. Seeing him still there, stuck in the same old rut, makes me realize how lucky I am to have moved on with my life 20 years ago, and how happy I am now without the SG cult dominating my life.

I barely recognized any faces at all, so I went through the video several more times. Even then, I only saw about 7 or 8 faces out of the entire crowd that I remembered. I did notice there were 3 men with ties and lanyards. I assume that they are the current senior leaders. I didn't see one senior leader from previous eras. Not one. Thats because the SGcult churns though 'em like butter. Use people up and throw 'em away when they are completely burnt out and no longer useful to the cult. Went back to Dallas, once around 1996 - same deal - no senior leaders there that I could recognize either.

As to "where's the buddhism" (thats kinda like the old Wendy's commercial - where's the beef?), this video was recorded at a Kofu gongyo meeting, as evidenced by the clock's pre-noon time. You can bet they did gongyo, diamoku, experiences, guidances, senior leaders speeches, and most importantly, holiest of vows dedicated to the big cheese, all before this little gem started. You know - the same old tired crap that has been passed off as "true Buddhism" for decades. Let 'em have a little fun dancing - 'cause the big zaimu campaign is almost here and they're gonna need a glimmer of happiness to hang on to for another round of being bled dry. Vampires. Well, at least the music wasn't totally awful, I've heard much, much worse! Where's the Buddhism indeed! That's what I've been wondering for years!!!

Spartacus

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Spartacus ()
Date: March 30, 2013 10:10PM

Quote
TaitenAndProud

To me, it just felt more like I was expected to do everything for the organization, but when there was an opportunity for the organization to do something for me (to freakin' use the community bulletin board for something Buddhist-related, for goshsakes!), they wouldn't allow that. It seems it would have been a natural item for the public bulletin board, as members *use* butsudans and might be interested in buying nice butsudans, right? I really don't see the problem.

In such cases, sometimes leaders would trot out that "must never try to make money off the membership" canard, supposedly one of Makiguchi's strict guidelines, but isn't the whole organization built around making money off the membership? *WINK*


Just as the Iraq War was begining, there were about 50 or so members in Seattle that were actively participating in street protests against the war. But the SGcult itself would not commit to even one word against the illegal and immoral invasion.

First, the revered leaders upstairs had a display against war removed from the large entry room area. Then I tried to use the SG culture center's bulletin board to post about upcoming protest events for the other members. Now this use was for sake of the members, with no monetary interests involved, and was true to the buddhist spirit of "no more war". Yet we were forbidden by senior leaders to use the bulletin board for war protest info. Through discussions about this ban with local senior leaders, I learned that SGcult's postion was solidly in FAVOR of supporting the war, not against it! Lame excuses were offered up, like "we can't speak out against the war or we might lose our tax exempt status" and "we don't want to offend any of our military members (patriotic ferver) by supporting protests against the war". I could not believe my ears.

I was dumbfounded. All those years, I had childishly believed in the cult fairy tale that SG was all about promoting World Peace - but that was totally bullshit. Everything was always about money, I just didn't see it before. But I was pissed and I couldn't stand one more minute of the SGcult's hypocrisys so I walked out and never went back. Didn't make any plans or announcements, just walked out of that cult center - knowing I would never ever go back for another choking taste of their hot steaming pile of cult crap. World Peace my ass!

Spartacus

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: Spartacus ()
Date: March 30, 2013 10:27PM

Quote
wakatta1
.

I recall how I would look at the cranes on my butsudan while chanting, thinking about the one crane with an open mouth and the other closed, and then the crane brushing the mountain with its wings, etc. etc. My point is that there is a big internal experience, totally personalized to the individual. Filling all the blank spots in with convenient details. How easily we can furnish our little pointed heads with stuff. Right now my head is furnished with an air mattress and a mini fridge with chips and salsa <grin>.

Wakatta1

Mentioning the cranes jogged my memory. I was told by a WD senior leader that the two cranes represented male and female. Supposedly, the crane with the closed beak was male, and the one with the open beak, female. Why was female associated with the open beak? Because women are always talking! How blantantly bias, this traditional Japanese regressive culture against women (there's a lot of prejudice in Japanese culture).

Spartacus

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: March 30, 2013 10:59PM

Found this on another thread on this message board. Maybe it will be relevant to Ikeda's future.

Quote

There's a book worth a peek by Colin Wilson called Rogue Messiahs. (The title may be different in the original UK edition).

Wilson isnt a sociologist or professor, but he has had a special vantage point. He wrote a large body of science fiction and fantasy novels, very well received, and he had a front row vantage point in England during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s, when legions of gurus, spiritual movements and projects were brand new. And Mr Wilson, having become an important author, received quite interesting correspondance from some of these persons, which gave him access to their inner lives, hopes for themselves and for the world.

Mr Colin, having seen many of these people begin their careers and gain success noted that many spiritual leaders by their sucess in lose access to thier private lives, their deepest selves. . They become their roles, get lost in them.

And he observed that most gurus die 'in harness'. They can never get free from the role, the public persona. Its like a mask that gets stuck to one's face after awhile, that cannot be removed.

Some gurus do manage to go into retirement or into hiding, but its rare. And if they do flee. suddenly and abruptly, followers experience this as trauma. Disciples can remain dependent on having someone to look up to, and unless they work on themselves, have a 'guru sized hole.'

The disciples, suddenly abandoned, cannot to recognize how they feel and experience this as abandonment, because by definition of the role, a guru is perfect and is not capable of abandoning others.

This makes it impossible to question the person's actions or see the person as a human being under severe stress with few if any of the limits and reality checks that human beings need in order to stay balanced and sane.


Note: One need not be a famous guru for this scenario to play out.

Over the years, I observed some priests who were highly charismatic, and had become much in demand as spiritual advisors/directors. These men and women took on more counselees than they could handle, but their talents enabled them to give much support to many persons--but only for awhile.

These clergy, for the same reasons they took on too many counselees, were unable to observe their inner emotions and could not see that they were approaching exhaustion.

When they did finally become exhausted, they didnt have the energy to assist their many counselees in transferring to new advisors, and didnt have the energy to assist their counselees to make sense of and grieve the loss of the relationship.

Instead, these suddenly exhausted charismatics, reacted by disappearing, leaving no contact information--and in their departure left their advisees feeling shocked, bereft, and confused.

I sadly recall one church where the administration was stuck handling correspondance and phone calls for a brilliant priest who had abruptly retired from his role as a celebrated spiritula director. The adminstrator was exhausted from handling phone calls, and waved a hand toward Father X's mailbox, stuffed full of notes and letters from other counselees.

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Re: Soka Gakkai International -- SGI
Posted by: TaitenAndProud ()
Date: March 31, 2013 12:34AM

Quote

Through discussions about this ban with local senior leaders, I learned that SGcult's postion was solidly in FAVOR of supporting the war, not against it! Lame excuses were offered up, like "we can't speak out against the war or we might lose our tax exempt status" and "we don't want to offend any of our military members (patriotic ferver) by supporting protests against the war". I could not believe my ears.
Wait wait wait. What about the tearjerker story about how First and Second Presidents Makiguchi and Toda WENT TO PRISON for protesting their country's involvement in a war, and Makiguchi becoming a martyr to the anti-war cause in prison????????

Isn't that supposed to be the SGI's "noble heritage" that "proves" they're SOOOO much better and SOOOO much morally superior to the sniveling, crawling, groveling, eeeEEEEEeeeevil priesthood who went along with the authorities so as not to lose their tax-exempt status or whatever????

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