I believe this is the FNCC clip [www.youtube.com]. I must say, going thru some of the videos under the same theme leaves me just shaking my head. It looks like commune behavior with everyone under the same chemical influence (endorphins, serotonin, dopamine, etc.) tenderizing their minds to be more receptive to the core brainwashing that takes place in the conferences/discussions.

On that note:

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backnforth
Another friend asked the interesting question: what does the SGI do for the members? They take and take constantly; take members time, take members money. But what do they give back? They don't have any qualms about taking from people that are already struggling financially. It's okay to still take their money.

Cruel . . . . . is the only word that comes to mind.

On a tangible level, it gives them a sense of community with like minded people. On an intangible level, it gives them a hopeful delusion and a spiritual fantasy. How much mileage they can extract varies according to each individual's unique personal and cognitive needs.

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Hitch
I believe this is the FNCC clip [www.youtube.com]. I must say, going thru some of the videos under the same theme leaves me just shaking my head. It looks like commune behavior with everyone under the same chemical influence (endorphins, serotonin, dopamine, etc.) tenderizing their minds to be more receptive to the core brainwashing that takes place in the conferences/discussions.

On that note:

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backnforth
Another friend asked the interesting question: what does the SGI do for the members? They take and take constantly; take members time, take members money. But what do they give back? They don't have any qualms about taking from people that are already struggling financially. It's okay to still take their money.

Cruel . . . . . is the only word that comes to mind.

On a tangible level, it gives them a sense of community with like minded people. On an intangible level, it gives them a hopeful delusion and a spiritual fantasy. How much mileage they can extract varies according to each individual's unique personal and cognitive needs.

Hitch, I guess the 'frame' would be that proverbial Carrot of Prosperity and Happiness that is dangled. Members giving their time and money? It will all pay out in huge dividends in the future. Humans created religion to deal with uncertainty. Certainty is good. "How much mileage they can extract varies according to each individual's unique personal and cognitive needs". I think that hits a big nail right on the head.

As P.I. has often said, "There is nothing wasted in Nichiren Buddhism"....well, SGI Buddhism, of course.

I have a general question for Rick Ross or rrmoderator. I'm quoting the original posts, below, in so as to keep the full context as it pertains to my question:

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Jeenia
Hello everyone, I am a former member of SGI. I joined it because my Japanese friend was raving about how it is a great Buddhist organization in Virgina. Well I Joined and received my Gohonzon one year from today in fact. Well I went to meetings but slowly started to notice anytime I had any problems they would tell me to chant more, get involved in activities, donate(I never donated a dime) and buy PI publications. I am a military spouse (I found out majority of the SGI members in this district are from Okinawa, Japan and are married to military members). I attended all the meetings and soon after I got pregnant, the ones I could not attend were the ones far away.

When I slowly stopped going to meetings I had them host meetings at my house and let me know last minute. With my morning sickness I was barley able to sit through chanting. After I had my baby they wanted me to attend more meetings which wasn't possible. The only meeting I attended after all of this was the last one before we moved to our next duty station Upstate NY. My friend who got me into SGI asked me for my new address I thought she was going to write me a letter or something. She gave my new info to SGI and one month after we moved up here I was getting bombarded with phone calls.

I only answered one call and was told the closest district meeting is an hour away and I should attend, I told them that, that is too far for me I was interrupted and told that an hour drive is nothing. I told them to give me the information and I would get in touch when I had the time. I never called them. Thank goodness I got away from all of this mess the Ikea worship is very obvious I do not know why anyone else doesn't see it.

I went back to Falun Gong a non-profit organization that teaches you how to cultivate your chi (life energy). All of the books and information is free and no pressure to donate or anything. I am happy with this :).

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rrmoderator
Jeenia:

Please don't promote another religious group on this thread, i.e. Falun Gong.

See [www.culteducation.com]

In my opinion Falun Gong is a destructive cult.

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

I'm only familiar with one (sg/sgi-x) cult, so I don't have anything to compare it to. However, in your expertise, experience and background how often do you find that people leave one cult only to later go join another (or even a different sect or religion)? Is it a common practice for ex-members to go cult hopping or religion shopping after being a former member of a cult?

In the spirit of humor:

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rattyboy
In my own district I grew tired of hearing: "So and so from youth division just came back from FNCC." ooooh. Let them give their experience at the discussion meeting. The first details I had heard from a YMD, while on the way to a meeting, is that it was like a palace and "hot ladies" were everywhere and you get treated like a king. There's the window dressing.

Re: "Hot Ladies", and I kind of touched on this earlier in response to bobze39 - here is an example of the stunning intellect that you will most likely find should you search for a significant other via this route: Part 2 of 2 - [www.youtube.com]. And the (O)daimoku - [www.youtube.com]. (There's also a district leader being interviewed on the same program. Part 1 of 3 - [www.youtube.com] - I'll never look at adjunct cc staff the same, ever again). Speaking of "window dressing" - these programs are typical of the appeals to the fallacy of authority (UN/NGO status, etc.) that sgi often uses to create a false banner of legitimacy in the eyes of the uninformed public.

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rattyboy
Going on Tozan (back in the NSA days) - I was told by a leader that I would have a burning desire to go to Japan and be in the presence of High Sanctuary. If I didn't say it out loud I'm sure my facial reaction said something like "I don't think so".

Well, I must say that at least on tozan, you got to visit a unique and exotic land (and trust me, some of the lesser faithful ymd of that time have some whopping adventures to tell from their trips).

And on a serious note:

This post by "myownwill", which I just accidentally found, is probably one of the top 3 all time best summaries of the cult of sgi - [forum.culteducation.com]. It is so accurate and well written that it deserves a (re)visit, especially for any of the newer board members (like myself) who may not have yet seen.

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Shavoy
@The Anticult.....so in a way, too, this fusion, this One with Ikeda, means in essence that followers will lose their individual identities, and become mini-Ikedas? Is this also a end result desired by the Masters?

Well of course, a person never totally loses their Identity, but feels as if they are fused or bonded with their image of Ikeda in their own mind.
And of course, since Ikeda is the Master, they are the follower.
So its just an imaginary concocted fiction in the person's mind, and every cult does this.

This is why dictators put up those huge photo's, it seems to distort perceptions.
Ikeda used those crude Stalinist images in the past as well.

But Ikeda pushes the Master/slave dynamic, as its all a mental construct in the victim. It makes a personal psychologically dependent on Ikeda-SGI.
They use the Ikeda personality, due to Ikeda's vanity, but also they seem to have to use a PERSON, not just a concept.

Ikeda probably laughs and thinks...hey, they all believe in imaginary gods, they might as well believe in an imaginary Ikeda...as long as it makes the donations come in.

ALL THE TIME!!
Cult-hopping...frying pan to the fire...
Seems most folks do that many times? Until they find another way of looking at things?

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Hitch
I'm only familiar with one (sg/sgi-x) cult, so I don't have anything to compare it to. However, in your expertise, experience and background how often do you find that people leave one cult only to later go join another (or even a different sect or religion)? Is it a common practice for ex-members to go cult hopping or religion shopping after being a former member of a cult?

I echo The Anticult here--yes, yes, yes, some persons do move from one guru or group to another.

And it has nothing to do with level of education or intelligence. One can be highly intelligent, have excellent education, and yet do this kind of guru or cult hopping.

Hypnotic Induction that Carries Over From One Group to Another

In the US, especially, we cling to the culturally entrenched belief that we are 'free agents' and that we control our environment and make our destinies. Thats our national narrative.

Problem is, this ignores that human persons are social creatures and profoundly influenced by social roles. Philip Zimbardo demonstrated this in his Stanford Prison Experiment : students who were pre screeened to rule out mental illness were randomly assigned to the role of prisoner or prison guard and acted out these roles in uniforms in a simulated prison. The combination of role and social isolation led to the 'prisoners' and 'guards' both forgetting they had been told they could leave at any time.

Zimbardo had to end the experiment early because the behavior was going out of control.

Another experiement at Stanford by Gruenberg (I call it the Stanford Cookie Experiment) revealed that studnets randomly assigned to leadership role in a group for a task that lasted just a coule of hours were more likely to get greedy, eat with mouths open, leave crumbs and take extra cookies from a tray without asking permission--and these were peiople randomly assigned leadership role and for just an hour or two. Imagine the character deteriorating effect on someone who wants to be a leader or guru and then occuplies that role for years, with no outside input.

In addition to the powerful impact of social role and social setting both of which new age types prefer to ignore, other factors can influence human behavior in powerful ways

Sleep deprivation

Trance induction

If someone has been through a program of trance induction, they may be vulnerable to having it re-triggered if they leave one guru or group and encounter a recruiter from another guru or group.

Finally, Anticult noted that many recruiters for these groups EXPLOIT our usual politeness. These persons are using sophisticated covert sales techniques and they cannot be silenced by a simple refusal, because THEY DO NOT RESPECT OUR BOUNDARIES.

They treat the word 'No' as a signal to 'Keep Pushing'

The only way to deal with these sharky recruiters is not listen, and if necessary slam the door or talk restraining orders.

The saddest thing of all is that this cultic crap erodes the social contract.

Family Secrecy

A surprising number of us grow up in families full of debilitating secrecy. One may never know but may, unconsciously pick up that something isnt quite right. Years ago, I attended a workshop on how to do geneology'/family history research, such as ways to look at public records.

Eighty percent of the people in the group raised their hands when asked if they had unconvered any suprises--family skeletons. I dared wonder if persons who sense something is amiss are especially likely to become interested in geneology.

It may be that a very high proportion of people who go from one bad group or cult to another may, at an unconscious level, be reacting to toxic secrecy or dynamics in their own families.

The kind of lying that goes on can be astounding. A woman who was a senior employee at the county clerks office in a major city told me, "We never judge. We have heard everything. People come in here and they find out that the house they grew up in was owned not by their parents, but by Dad's boyfriend who lived with them as an 'uncle' or 'family friend.' People dont always tell the truth when filling out marriage licenses. There may be a big time lag between taking out a marriage license and then getting married, which can hint at difficulties. People may hide from their kids that they were married more than once, or had more than one divorce or annulment. It just goes on and on." Wills, citizenship papers may uncover yet other suprises.

One man who became entangled in a cult told me that all the time he grew up he had a gut feeling he just wasnt his parents biological child. Years later, his mother confessed she had had an affair with another man and that man was my friend's biological father.

Meanwhile my pal had survived ten years in a very dangerous cult, the leader was doing time in jail and my pal narrowly escaped serving hard time--he confessed and the US Attorney told him to go and sin no more.


Family Trauma

If one has grown up in a family where one has to normalize hurtful or bizarre behavior by authority figures, and normalize terror and abuse as 'character building' one can be easily preformatted to see abusive guru behavior as normal and necessary and with a built in spiritual rationale.

Many persons without knowing it, may have incurred trauma in their upbringing. If someone splits off the experience of this kind of trauma, he or she may be quite educated and intelligent, but may unconsciously, through a process termed repetition compulsion, gravitate through an unconscious process toward groups and relationships that are emotionally similar in form to one's family. The great problem is that in the New Age/cult scene, there is a rejection of boundaries and a blurring of boundaries similar to what goes on in harmful family or caregiver situations. Thus the cultic mileu scene offers healing, but through its rejection of evidence based psychotherapy and medicine cannot provide healing - at best one gets coziness and emotionally pleasant experiences, but not enough to address the deeper troubles.

At worst one encounters malpractiioners who add additional layers of trauama to what one already is suffering from. Too often bad gurus and groups re-enact the same dysfunctional family dynamics (including family secrets) that left one in distress.

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This is why dictators put up those huge photo's, it seems to distort perceptions.
Ikeda used those crude Stalinist images in the past as well.

This evokes how we experience our parents when we are infants and very tiny children.

They are the Big People on whom we are dependent for survival.

This is primative stuff.

And there is a level of thought and emotion in babies and very young children that the psychologists term 'primary process'.

In primary process we see things as all black/all white, cannot make subtle distinctions.
Its Bliss/Terror

This is overlaid with adult sophistication later on. But under stress, or under the right
kinds of conditioning such as what is used in dictatorships, cults and certain kinds of marketing/advertising, we can be prodded back into primary process -- and become malleable.

When someone is massaged back into primary process emotion and cognition but retains adult earning power, they are valuable for any dictatorship or guru.

This is also related to the response people have to "movie stars" seen on the "big screen". It seems to distort the perception of these people in the audiences minds, by making them larger than life. After all, the images on the screen are huge.

This is why Hitler used movies as propaganda, to make him seem like a superman.
Many cults are now putting out movies about the cult.

So any type of gigantic IMAGE of a personality cult leader, distorts the image of that person in the audiences mind.

SGI uses all of these techniques with the Ikeda propaganda.

SGI gets people to work for free.
Many other sects do the same.
Byron Katie makes millions, yet has figured out how to persuade others to work for her Corporation for free, doing jobs that should be paid. [forum.culteducation.com]