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wakatta1
@HitchQuote
Hitch
It's done all the time in Japan. They just want to go through the motions for formality sake and a tie is always the best possible and preferred outcome to any game of competition in their mind
Heh! That aspect alone is probably the most despicable element in having to deal with SGI "overlords". Endless meetings to get people's feelings on a topic and then the actual decision is made behind closed doors and always in the favor of the Japanese "clique".
You're right, in business the same thing happens. First the underlings arrive to do "nemowashii" (spade work) and then the big kahuna arrives to publically hear the "details", nod sagely, ask a few (usually clueless) questions and then with a flourish announce that "no decision will be made until everyone has had a chance to voice their view". The translation being "we've already made up our minds what we will do, but we need to build top cover because there are those who might oppose it".
I recall reading once that in the royal families in britain, there was a very high level of "insanity" but after investigation they found that it was no higher than anywhere else, it is just to survive in that crazy environment, many of the sane people had to adopt insane ways. I think the same applies to some of the leadership in SGI. Were it a different organization and were there actual ethics involved, you'd probably see more ethical behavior.
But right now, the cards are held by others.
Wakatta1
As Shrek, Wakatta1 and now Hitch always say: "Better out than in I always say" :)
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corboy
The other day, I visited a local cemetary and wandered to one area that housed niches for people's urns and ashes. The modern niches commemorated very many who had perished in the grim years of the AIDS pandemic.
I was floored to see one glass fronted niche with a smiling portrait of a handsome nice looking man, and on the glass, the words of the Nichiren chant.
If that young man had lived until today, he would have probably been heart broken to learn what had been behind those words he had so trusfully chanted, perhaps hoping doing so would cure AIDS or prolong his life.
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Shavoy
I will add another life situation where die-hard SGI-ers stumble: When a member commits suicide. There was a post back in this thread about a young gentleman who did just that, after his gohonzon accidently suffered damage.
If I remember, they were came down hard on him for that, and the poor guy was overwhelmed.
I have seen where leaders do not know how to handle a suicide..."How can we recruit members if this comes out?"
There is no SGI Frame for it. What a way to be a real Debbie Downer, committing suicide while you're still with SGI.
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corboy
I have never been in SG but have met so many people in my part of the US who were chanters that this information is a shocker. It makes me sad that so very many nice people I met were, without knowing it, supporting a personality driven dictatorship.
Worse, one that manages to be tax exempt due to its claim to be a religion.
The other day, I visited a local cemetary and wandered to one area that housed niches for people's urns and ashes. The modern niches commemorated very many who had perished in the grim years of the AIDS pandemic.
I was floored to see one glass fronted niche with a smiling portrait of a handsome nice looking man, and on the glass, the words of the Nichiren chant.
If that young man had lived until today, he would have probably been heart broken to learn what had been behind those words he had so trusfully chanted, perhaps hoping doing so would cure AIDS or prolong his life. During the terror years of the AIDS pandemic (1981 to 1996) people were trying everything to cure or at least halt the progressing of the disease. Those were the years you saw people wasting away, getting thin, pale, going from being ambulatory, to needing a cane, then to needing a friend at one's elbow, then to needing a wheelchair, pushed by a friend or practical support volunteer.
The saddest state was when people were unlucky enough to get visible purple blotches of kaposis sarcoma on their faces. They learned to use make up. Some hid in their rooms.
One young boy with purple blotches on his face sat begging money on a streetcorner proclaiming he was using the power of his will to cure himself.
This isnt strictly about Sokka Gakkai, but it may give some insights into Japanese group culture.
Its a memoir by Robert Twigger entitled Angry White Pyjamas.
[www.google.com]
For a year, Twigger lived under the rule of a renowned and harsh Aikido dojo, taking the year long martial arts program all riot police are required to take.
His book may be an interesting comparison to what you witnessed and lived through in SG, because the dojo was a high demand group, was a microcosm of Japanese culture, centered on the personality of its founder.
However, it was not a cult. There was a rough spell where Twigger and one or two classmates seriously hated the guts of an especially brutal instructor.
But the key is - they had the inner freedom to have doubts. To feel fear. And yes, the freedom to dislike and, during one rough patch, hate an instructor who was behaving as a brute and bully.
And the author felt free to consider quitting. Seriously consider quitting.
The master of the dojo had political connections. The Japanese riot police were required to take his year long aikido course. You had to accept the risk of death or injury in order to participate.
But the instructor had earned respect by actual, verifiable accomplishments. He was well off but lived modestly, and didnt go around with a swaggering entourage.
It as also possible to have a social life outside of the dojo, and significantly, one didnt go around doing thought stopping cliches.
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Shavoy
Incredible posts from Nichijew, Hitch, KR, bobze39, corboy, wakatta1.
I will add another life situation where die-hard SGI-ers stumble: When a member commits suicide. There was a post back in this thread about a young gentleman who did just that, after his gohonzon accidently suffered damage.
If I remember, they were came down hard on him for that, and the poor guy was overwhelmed.
I have seen where leaders do not know how to handle a suicide..."How can we recruit members if this comes out?"
There is no SGI Frame for it. What a way to be a real Debbie Downer, committing suicide while you're still with SGI.
On revenge and gathering personal information to hit back at someone who's defected: Well, if the Big Guy says he holds grudges, what other green light do they need? They are serving their Mentor.
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wakatta1
That aspect alone is probably the most despicable element in having to deal with SGI "overlords". Endless meetings to get people's feelings on a topic and then the actual decision is made behind closed doors and always in the favor of the Japanese "clique".
You're right, in business the same thing happens. First the underlings arrive to do "nemowashii" (spade work) and then the big kahuna arrives to publically hear the "details", nod sagely, ask a few (usually clueless) questions and then with a flourish announce that "no decision will be made until everyone has had a chance to voice their view". The translation being "we've already made up our minds what we will do, but we need to build top cover because there are those who might oppose it".
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wakatta1
. . . . . the very core of NSA was the WD. Their committment to the organization (good and bad) sustained it, and likely will continue to sustain it. Steady followers, mostly because they don't care about the philosophy or the dogma, but more about having their cultural support system there for them. Want to take a trip to japan? Go to the kaikan. Tatami mats, kanji slogans on the walls, pictures of sensei and other presidents on the walls. Just like back at home in Japan, nice and familiar. That is who will sustain SGI until they ultimately fade away.
Want to know who runs things at the hombu level, the Japanese "big shots" have Japanese wives and the Japanese wives talk to one another. Surprising how things work out for the WD when there is a conflict involving them. I saw plenty of members get "stern guidance" and nary a WD for far more serious offenses. Just sayin....
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bobze39
Japan has the highest suicide rate among industrialized countries. Of course there are cultural reasons.
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sushigrl
OMG, my first meeting when I was 15, I heard Forever Sensei, and at the end, when they would sing "Kosen Rufu is the way" I thought they were saying "Cousin Rufus here to stay"!!! I asked who Cousin Rufus was at the end! I should have run from cousin Rufus right then and there. I think I will nickname Ikeda "Cousin Rufus" from now on...it's more becoming. :)
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sushigrl
Oh gawd. Those Gakkaiers are CRACKERS!!! The thing that attracted me to the practice was the beautiful accessories around the kaikan Gohonzon. How mystical and magical. However, cousin rufus never came out of the butsudan hangar to tell us right from wrong. There was nothing but ego driven "become great-o for cousin rufus"..or as one leader said, "for cousin loof!"
Sadly the Japanese inspired airplane hangar with matching accessories will be going soon. Gonna post it sometime to Craig's list to see if any buddha will bite :)
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sushigrl
o man, I've been on youtube viewing videos of SGI songs...if anyone wants a good laugh, look up 'Ifu DODo no Uta" banda musical taiyo ongakutai, and others. Gosh I couldn't stop laughing at how serious these guys are.
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cyclops
Even today if a YD makes the statement “Ikeda is my mentor” I will always ask them why – and so far none have given me a good answer! I get foolish responses like – He the president – or because he been practicing for a long time! So I try to fight the good fight when I can. But the Ikedanization will go on until the end of his reign! I fear after that he will be enshrined as a Buddha or Enlighten Sage or some other title of grandeur!