Quote
Findingmywaytoday
Incidentally, I also have gotten the message from the SGI that either I am for Ikeda as my mentor, and if I don't have him as my mentor, it means I haven't studied hard enough, or gone to enough meetings. This just makes my stomach turn. I find that assumption insulting.

I am wondering how all of you feel about the President Ikeda's lectures. When I used to get the World Tribune, I was most encouraged by the experiences if anything. I didn't understand his lectures, nor was I interested. This came up in a conversation with someone once. She said that his lectures were so encouraging, and wonderful. I asked her if there was anything that she has ever disagreed with in regards to Ikeda, and she said no. She also mentioned in the same breath that SGI is not a cult.

I have been told about the importance of study, study, study. I said that the Gosho was challenging for me to read, but maybe one day. I was told to then buy a book of Ikeda's interpretations of the Gosho. I was told that in the temple, they are not encouraged to study, and that is what is so good about the SGI.

Is that true that in the temple, it is not encouraged to study? I am sure, though, there are no interpretations.

It is insulting, Findingmywaytoday. They call it a variant of Fundamental Darkness...to "hold back" or have questions on why we have to absolutely accept this man as the Only Mentor in Life worth having. This is no fundamental darkness. It's just a human being having a legitimate, reasonable question.

Honestly, I've gotten a lot from the lectures over the years..until lately, of course, the M/D emphasis has reared its influence. It's the New Human Revolution that causes real extreme retching. The ego in this has made my jaw drop. This has to be ghost-written, because the author, as Tsukimoto says, is on an Ego Grand Tour. But let's face it, ghost-written or not, Sensei has the Final Word....

Gack.

It cracks me up when people want to look to blame Daisaku Ikeda for the big M/D joke over the last several years. This has become the MAIN theme for the SGI and it is what most thinking people object to.

When I joined a few decades ago, the Master Disciple relationship was one of many concepts that were discussed and it didn't get more attention than any others; maybe even less attention than the other basic concepts like oneness of life/environment, turning poison to medicine, oneness of body and mind, ten worlds, etc. Now oneness of MD - this is such a calculated move on the part of many in power, but doubtful that Ikeda is even aware of how they have taken over and changed the direction of the organization.

The reason I say this is his age, approximately 86 yrs now I believe. Same age as my Uncle. He spends most of his day trying to dress himself that takes 4 times longer than a younger person, changing his depends and at times wet clothing. Even eating a meal takes him about 3 times as long as a younger person. He will often want to write something down and it will take him half the day to find the pen, writing paper and accomplish the task of putting something to paper. I know that not every 86 year old is the same as another, but, come on people - he is elderly, and just a human being after all. He cannot escape the sufferings of aging and illness.

Those in power in the SGI want to maintain their positions even after he is gone, so what better way than to make him an idol of millions of gullible, busy, sleep deprived and benefit hungry people.

Quote
Findingmywaytoday
I have noticed a few tricks or ploys that Soka Gakkai Members used with me that made me feel brainwashed. I am wondering if anyone can relate to these.

One of them was that when I had something good happen to me that had nothing to do with the Gohonzon, and they found out, they would then say it was because of the Gohonzon.

Another thing is that I was often told that how I act here in the SGI, is how I probably act anywhere. I was told to work it out in the SGI with people. It feels like a ploy to make people stay, as I was told: why go somewhere else when I will still have the same problems.

All is not lost because I will try and fill those gaps with hobbies, and friends. I never worked on friendships in the SGI because I thought I had friends in the practice. I didn't.

The first one -- that anything good that happens in your life comes from SGI, Ikeda, or the Gohonzon -- is very common, as is the reverse: if your life is not going well, it's because you are not sufficiently devoted to SGI, Ikeda or the Gohonzon. You need to chant more, go to more meetings, give zaimu (contributions), work more for SGI....and if you're already doing these things, it must be that you just have the wrong attitude. And in my time with SGI, I was one of those standing up there at meetings, giving "experiences." I had this problem, I chanted a lot, and I solved the problem, or got something good. I didn't talk about the things that I chanted for that didn't work out. I felt that it was my fault that I could not get better results. I hadn't chanted enough, or with the right attitude. And I didn't think about how much work I'd actually done to resolve the problem. Looking at it now....I can only shake my head in disbelief, that I, an educated and reasonably intelligent person, bought into this magical thinking.

The idea of working out one's problems with other SGI members has a kernel of truth to it. An arrogant or timid person may indeed act that way everywhere -- in school, work, with family, with boyfriends/girlfriends. BUT -- SGI leaders often use this to excuse bad behavior in leaders, and poor policies in SGI as a whole. SGI makes it very difficult to "work it out." Bad leaders are often kept in their positions; a member who complains about a leader's inappropriate or abusive behavior is often told that they, the member are the problem. Most organizations and workplaces have procedures that members can follow if they feel that they've been treated unjustly by the organization and its leaders. SGI doesn't. SGI members have no say in how their organization is run --- so telling them, "If you don't like something in SGI, be the change that you wish to see," is bullshit.

Look at the overall atmosphere of SGI -- no open, honest discussion of different views, SGI leaders/members' insistence that SGI/Ikeda are wonderful -- and if you don't think so, something must be wrong with you, shunning and criticism of members who do persist in questioning --- just how are you supposed to "work it out" with a group like that? SGI's idea of "work it out" is that you just shut the hell up and quit bothering them with questions, criticism, or suggestions for improvement. That Japanese proverb of "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down," applies here. Those of us who are out of SGI, and on this board -- are people who got sick of being hammered down! Which I think is a sign of health!

While I was in SGI, I thought I had some good friends. We certainly spent enough time together. When I had an emergency, though, they were nowhere to be found. It was my nonSGI friends and acquaintances -- whom I'd pretty much ignored because I was so busy with SGI -- who really came through for me. I think that a lot of things work against real friendship in SGI. Just the lack of honesty, how a person can be shunned or criticized for questioning and saying what they really think. If you can't be honest...you can't have real relationships, just shallow, superficial ones.

The constant busy-ness and "do more, do more" also works against friendship. You can't just sit down, talk and get to know people in a relaxed way because there is always some pressing goal that you have to meet. More shakabukus, more meetings, more daimoku! You always have to have some huge goal you're striving for. I once told a leader, "But I'm happy with where I am right now." You should have seen the expression on her face. I was clearly a terrible slacker!

Dissatisfaction is a great ploy for manipulating people too --- advertisers use it all the time. Just drumming it into your head, that you are not getting all that you can, and should have! You can have that perfect figure, that Carribbean vacation, that cool sports car -- just chant...or buy my product!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2011 12:29AM by tsukimoto.

Quote
bobze39

Quote
bobze39

Quote
Nichijew

If they did kill anyone, and I have no absolute proof that they do, I have read and heard that both the police and the media are in their pocket. Even in America, there are communities where people who are connected can get away with murder while, if you are not connected and get on the wrong side of the powers that be, you will either do time on trumped up charges, get killed, or disappear. It is not only often futile to go up against these powers [for example, the families of the murder victim against the constable, sheriff, or judge], it can be downright dangerous. Since, for example, in some of the communities in America of which I speak, I have neither absolute proof nor a horse in the race, it isn't worth it to me to make allegations and stir the pot when I could get jailed or killed. Regarding the SGI or one of my own family members, if I had any hard data, I would persue it in a heartbeat. I only know for a fact that there are those in Japan who are afraid of the Soka Gakkai and where there is smoke, there is fire.

Nichijew

Quote
The Anticult
When a sect gets so rich, and is localized in an area, they can have massive influence over the local government and law enforcement.

Sai Baba [forum.culteducation.com] is an example of that. They have over 9 billion in wealth, and have all of the politicians, media, judges, police in their pocket. To the point where murders in the ashram were not investigated, and sexual abuse reports of children were not investigated.
Its obvious they even timed Sai Baba's recent death to happen on Easter Sunday, by pulling the plug, or announcing it on that day, as Sai Baba was in his own private hospital.

Japan is different than India certainly. But since SGI apparently has their own SGI "town" they can wield enormous influence using the wealth and other methods. It seems whenever a sect get big and rich, and then localizes itself in one area, then it comes extremely dangerous, as it can pretty much take over local law enforcement and local judges and politicians.

Something has to be done, as these groups are getting worse every year.
They are tax-free, like Sai Baba and SGI, so they just get richer and richer.
If the trend keeps up, these mega-sects are going to become some of the most powerful organizations in the world, using their wealth and power to do whatever they want, tax-free.
And using local influence peddling to avoid justice.

That is very alarming! Interesting to find out, how many SGI members in Japan are police officers? If SGI recruits enough police officers, they won't have to kill their enemies. They can frame them and lock them up in jail. I am sure it's already happening.

It is very difficult to do a research about this issue, but I found an artcicle about two Japanese politicians who started an open anti-SGI campaign. One phrase that immedeately caught my attention was "I don't know why the Higashi-Murayama Police Station suddenly became so oversensitive and even obsessive about us," says Hozumi Yano, Asaki's colleague. "It's not that we had ever been at loggerheads with the police. But things began to change in February, after a personnel transfer at the station." Became obsessive - sounds like SGI style to me. Imagine a scenario, when a majority of police officers at one police station are SGI members and they chant together every day for destruction of their enemies!
[caic.org.au]
No surprise that this "obsessed" Police Station charged one of these two anti-SGI politicians with shop-lifting.
[justiceproved.net]
"Council member Akiyo Asaki steals a T-shirt from a clothing store in Higashi-Murayama".

It's time for politicians in Japan to demand from SGI to reveal the statistics about how many police officers are SGI members. Clearly police officers - SGI members can not perform their duties unbiasedly. It is called poilce corruption. By shakubukuing police officers SGI increases the police corruption. It's sad, pretty soon Japan will be more like Sicily was in the 20th century.

I know this fellow in Las Vegas. he had a beef with an SGI member on the net who was connected to the police. After a while, not only the ugly details of this person's arrest and subsequent involuntary psychiatric committment was all over this particular newsgroup but the fellow involved claims that not only did this person know the intimate details of the police action but influenced the police to arrest him in the first place. So much for eschewing Buddhist thoughts and actions of vindictive revenge. Those who actually practice Buddhism know that cause and effect is absolute [what goes around comes around] so no revenge seeking thoughts or behaviors need ever arise against one's enemy [since (and if) the enemy did indeed make a bad cause and will naturally get a bad effect]. One may not believe this but it is the correct Buddhist view, I think.

Quote
Nichijew
I know this fellow in Las Vegas. he had a beef with an SGI member on the net who was connected to the police. After a while, not only the ugly details of this person's arrest and subsequent involuntary psychiatric committment was all over this particular newsgroup but the fellow involved claims that not only did this person know the intimate details of the police action but influenced the police to arrest him in the first place. So much for eschewing Buddhist thoughts and actions of vindictive revenge. Those who actually practice Buddhism know that cause and effect is absolute [what goes around comes around] so no revenge seeking thoughts or behaviors need ever arise against one's enemy [since (and if) the enemy did indeed make a bad cause and will naturally get a bad effect]. One may not believe this but it is the correct Buddhist view, I think.

Yes, that's a bad story, but I am talking about a scenario when a majority of police officers at one police department are SGI members (probably not possible in US yet, but very much possible in Japan where SGI has more than 10 million members). This kind of police department can be used as an instrument by SGI. SGI can just send them a list of SGI enemies, who live within the jurisdiction of this department. The police department can then charge these enemies with some small crimes (not to attract too much public attention) and lock them up in jail to teach them a lesson. I am sure it's already happening, and one example is

[justiceproved.net]

"Council member Akiyo Asaki steals a T-shirt from a clothing store in Higashi-Murayama".

It's not even a question of revenge anymore, it's just a tool of crushing dissent. All dictatroships use law-enforcement structures to crush dissent and SGI is not an exception. But in some ways, SGI is a unique dictatorship. Some people described it as "a state within a state". So, it's not like those classic dictatorships, like Syria or Venezuela or Iran. In these countries, dictators can openly use the law-enforcement structures to crush dissent. But in case of SGI, it's a dictatorship within a democracy. So they have to use law-enforcement structures secretly.
But the goal of SGI is to shakubuku more then 50% of Japanese population, and then SGI can become a real dictatorship. Buddhist dictatorship? Is that possible? Read the article about Buddhist dictatorship in Sri Lanka, and you will understand that it is possible.

[transcurrents.com]

Besides, not long ago, before 1945, Japan itself was a military dictatorship.

Thanks for all of your interesting replies to my questions. You know, I feel like I have at least been "brainwashed" to the extent that members of the SGI would try and make me believe that my life is only better when I chant. I just can't go to therapy, or the job interview, and have as much success without chanting as I would with it.

It makes me feel like whatever I do without it won't be successful in the back of my mind, and I need to stop that kind of thinking.

The other thing that felt very manipulative was this (and tell me if I am wrong), sometimes when I would say chanting doesn't work, leaders would tell me that this is like I am saying my life doesn't work. That kind of bothered me, but if I am wrong, and you can help me see this in a different light, please do.

Just my 2 pence : Even if we say chanting does "work", such a comparison to one's life elicitted this response from me upon reading it: " That's just plain evil, find new friends!". That is an exaggeration on my part, I guess, but I think a lot of my friends who have never heard about this practice would probably have that response. The links that the SGI make with "your life" make them just as insidious if not more than some ashram or compound that would keep you bodily as well. Your normal everyday past, present and future in your environment with or without the organization is seen through their lens until you get that garbage out of your head.

Thank you Rattyboy. Ugh, it is really annoying, and I agree with you that it would be time to find some new friends. I also was thinking and wondering if SGI members feel like they can "win" and "create value" without chanting. I think and know you can, but caught myself doubting it because of my time in SGI.

Quote
Findingmywaytoday
Thank you Rattyboy. Ugh, it is really annoying, and I agree with you that it would be time to find some new friends. I also was thinking and wondering if SGI members feel like they can "win" and "create value" without chanting. I think and know you can, but caught myself doubting it because of my time in SGI.

Findingmywaytoday, hello...people of all faiths absolutely create value and win every day without ever hearing of SGI, Gohonzon and Senor Ikeda. ("Create value" seems to be an SGI trademark.) They live full lives with all the ups and downs without ever having heard of SGI, Gohonzon and the Big Dude. And I can speak of family and friends who died content at ripe old ages, despite disease in some cases. They had no regrets on how their lives had played out.

No SGI. No Gohonzon. No you-know-who!

I've always kept one eye cocked open throughout my years with SGI and when I've spoken about this "phenomenon" that other people seem to experience benefits, gotten prayers answered, felt satisfaction in their soul, wellll...what can die-hard SGI-ers say? Some do agree, plenty grit teeth and chomp out the Refute-This-Inferior-Mindset-STAT! response....

SGI has not and will not ever have the True License on Life. We are human, and with all the individual DNA's, how can we think or feel exactly the same??

I'm with you,

Shavoy